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How the hell ....
1
(28 posts, started )
How the hell ....
HI.

(Talking about BW and XGT)

I have been driving LFS for quite a long time.
However I have no clue why for a period of time I dont become better. I did my PB once. It was 1:27:50. It's no joke - I did it after 4 beers. After that I havnt got below 1:28. When I am driving normally I get 1:30 / 1:31.

I was observing WRs replays. I am doing almost the same thing as they do but they do corners 10 / 20 km/h faster than I do. I try doing that faster and I'm off in the grass. I know I have good setup - I saw the player do low 1:23 on this one. They have almost all through the corner max gas. When I try doing that I end spinning off. I know how to countersteer but with maximal gas I can only drift out of the corner with limited speed.

How do they do that?? How can I get any better?


< Went doing some replay >
Maybe the wind can help them, I see that in drag hehe
Here's my replay.
Anything special 'cause it's late but it shows my skills.

1st lap - trying to make it easy, no hard trying to do best
2nd - Trying to put more gas during corners
3rd - Wanted to give as much gas as possible
4th - here you can see problem I encounter all the time - I start braking -> stop breaking and start turning in the corner -> oversteer
I know the cause is weight point going to front of car while braking. But I can not accelerate at that point cause it would launch me out of the corner.
Attached files
1.spr - 105.3 KB - 378 views
Your exit line of turn 1 isn't wide enough, which is also messing up your line through the chicane. Watch how the WR time goes through this section. Just following the good line should shave a second off or so, then a few more seconds will come off when you're comfortable with going faster on this line. Other than that, braking points/accel points maybe? The best way to compare to a WR time is using AnalyzeForSpeed. Then you can really tell if you're braking too early or not accelerating soon enough.
#5 - filur
I watched the replay and did a testdrive.

This setup is not an easy one to drive, i'm guessing it has a locked diff and low front brake bias, which means
you can easily lock your rear wheels under breaking, getting massive traction loss / oversteer / havoc.

Even if this is very "fast" set, a 1:23 set, you don't need it (yet), i'd even recommend you driving "race_1" over this set.

Or try this one
Attached files
XR GT TURBO_BL1_clpk.set - 132 B - 319 views
ok I am in the exact same boat as you my friend. I spent the last week completly focusing on the WR replays and observing other guys online who get in the 1:23 - 1:24 range. I see everything they do but I can't get my car to do it. As you mentioned they corner like 10mph faster than me and I've tried it and its just not possible for me. I am at the point now where I get in the 1:29's and 1:30's but if I try to pushing the car any faster I will spin out.

I'm gonna go check out analyzeforspeed and I'll let you know if I figure anything out.

Here is a replay I just did of me doing 1:30.25
Attached files
shenron.spr - 71.3 KB - 289 views
Ok, I just drove the first 4 serious laps on BL1 XRT ever (LFSWorld says I have 10 laps online with a PB of 1.31.xx, go figure).
The last three laps were all in the 1.25.xx range with 1.25.63 on the final lap. I did it with a setup for BL Rev I got ages ago from someone I don't know anymore.

My advice: take a stable setup that you feel comfortable with. Then do lots of practice, and by that I don't mean headless driving the lap over and over, but studying WR replays (lines!) and also their throttle/brake input. Very often small details like a little brake AND throttle on corner entry can be the difference between a smooth and a drifted corner, between a new PB and a sucky time.

The often used locked diff needs very careful brake/throttle appliance and the difficulty added to that often makes you much slower than the benefit of more power on corner exit. Just take a setup that you think is good and experiment with the various diffs, because the diff itself doesn't make that much of a difference, but being comfortable and thus being able to drive smooth lines makes you fast.

The 4 laps I just drove were done with a vicious diff for example... (I didn't even look at the setup prior to driving). I don't consider any of these laps clean and particularily smooth, hell I even had to guess the brakepoints most of the time. The only experience I have are laps with the FOX so I atleast had an idea what a good line could be.


So guys practice, but not without thinking. If you just drive a lap over and over you will just make the same mistakes every time. Open yourself up to new lines and your times should improve.
Attached files
AndroidXP_BL1_XRT.spr - 142.7 KB - 308 views
#8 - Jakg
i remember trying tons of new tracks, and not being able to comprehend where the other people are amking their times, ag on AS Nat (you demoers wont know it, but its a fairly fast track) and just by exiting right out onto the run off on two corners i took a second off my times

Recently i have got my friends into LFS, and we meet up on demo servers, only thing is, one of them has a wheel, and the other one is a member of CCUK and never told me! They keep on beating me at blackwood, i need more practice!
Soo, just did a test drive with your setup, best I could manage was 1:25.84 but it felt quite a bit more unstable than "my" setup.

One thing you should do is turn off "throttle cut on upshift". Rather than using this, lift off a bit by yourself (DON'T fully disengage the throttle, just a bit). This helps keeping the turbo pressure and shaving off those extra hundredths. The automatic throttle cut makes you lose ALL turbo pressure on a shift, every time.
I figured out what my problem was. Analyzeforspeed showed my throttle as 80% instead of 100% on the straight. I recalibrated my pedals and all is well now.

In your replay I noticed you have a half tank of gas. Try using just enough gas to make it around a couple laps. The decrease in weight may decrease your times. Its worth a shot.
Thanks for help guys (no ladies here unfortunatelly ). I really appreciate.

Quote : Even if this is very "fast" set, a 1:23 set, you don't need it (yet), i'd even recommend you driving "race_1" over this set.

Maybe it's strange but I prefer my one to race_1. I accidentally started driving on race_1 when I wanted to make a replay. It was so uncomfortable that I was messing up every corner until I realised its not my set.

Thanks for your setups. I will try them later on.
Don't be afraid to play with your setup mate. Just because someone can get a ninja time with the one you have, don't mean you ever will. A setup needs to be tailored to you, your control method and your driving style. And the only person who can do that, is you.

I find playing the setup very rewarding. Just make a new setup file and adjusting a few things. Take of the Locked diff, see what happens. Don't like it? Put it back. Try softening the rear suspension. Working for you? Keep it.

Just try things out. Some of them will suit you and the car and the track. Some won't. But you won't know till you try . . .
Quote from himself :Here's my replay.
Anything special 'cause it's late but it shows my skills.

Are you on a wheel or keyboard? Can't help you if you are on a keyboard

I'm no world class racer myself, but as far as I can tell, you first need to work on your braking/downshifting techniques. Seems like you are too rough with the brakes - you should instead be more gentle, while at the same time brake earlier - also be aware of not to downshift to low gears when revs are still too high.

Secondly I would say you toss the car around - try to be more calm with the wheel aswell as the pedals - including the throttle.

And finaly - go slower for now - you have too much speed when you enter the turns, wich ultimatly leads to heavy weightshifting and eventually drift - by only eleminating the drifting (by going slower through the turns) you will find yourself doing laps faster - perhaps much faster.
try turning your sound up and listening for the scrub of the tyres on the road too
Quote from Shenron : I spent the last week completly focusing on the WR replays and observing other guys online who get in the 1:23 - 1:24 range.
I see everything they do but I can't get my car to do it

When i'm in hotlap research mode trying to get an MHR lap in for example, i never ever start with comparing myself to a wr, or any extremely fast lap at all. I usually drive a few laps, and compare my lap to a faster lap, if i was driving 1:29's on blgp, i'd compare it to a 1:27, then manage 1:27 and compare that to a 1:25.
If i want to look at a replay before i drive, i generally look at one that's just around the benchmark time.

Not because i just want to get a -0.001 lap, because it atleast for me works alot better, try it
The setup is great. Just realised that making the car as much understeer as possible is not a good option. Just a complete different filosophy than I had before. Now I can steer with throttle, what I could not do on my old setup. Only a touch of the steering wheel and it start turning in, small control on gas and countersteer and my lines are getting better. Its great!

Thanks
Sorry I haven't looked at your replay but here are some general hints to help anyone get faster.

Speed comes from consistency

It’s all very well pushing to the absolute limit every lap, going off in 3 out of 4 and setting a fast time on the 1 clean lap. However, this will not help you in a race where one off can cost you a win. Also, it will make it very difficult to improve and get really fast.

The first time I lap a new circuit I’ll do the whole thing in say 2nd gear. That way I get a good look at all the potential reference points around the track and I get a feel for the flow. Then I begin to build up speed. I find I can learn a track in just a few laps taking this approach.

Also, if you keep going off in say turn 3, then you’ll never know what the entry to turn 4 will be like at full speed. I have mates who play and go off at the same corner over and over again. When they finally make it through the corner, they crash at the next one!

In addition, once you get to within say 5 seconds of the WR, then you’ll know which corners you can push a little harder on to save time and which you are pretty much on the money.

Consistency is an absolute must when adjusting your setups. When I’m creating setups I JUST try to be consistent so that any changes show up in the time. If I was pushing 99% then a fast bit here and mistake there makes lap time comparison meaningless.

AnalyzeForSpeed

This tool is fantastic. When you watch WRs and can’t work out how they are getting through corners at certain speeds, this tool can help. You can see at any moment in a lap speed, throttle/brake position, steering angle and track position. It may look at first glance as tho you are doing the same thing but use AnalyzeForSpeed and you will see how completely different WR holders drive to you.

Corner Entry

Use every inch of space on corner entry. This opens up the radius of the turn for you so the turn is less tight. Even when you think you are using all the track you probably are not. AnalyzeForSpeed has an uncanny knack of proving this to you.

As you are turning toward the apex, you need to be above the ideal corner speed slightly, scrubbing it off as you get to the apex. If you turn in at the required corner speed, you will be shedding time to the fast guys who will be carrying extra speed to the apex I guarantee it. This is one of the hardest skills to master in LFS and in my view what separates the ‘aliens’ (I hate that term) from the rest of us. To do this you will need to learn how to trail brake while keeping some throttle on. Make sure your pedals are set with separate axis.

Braking

Many beginners do not down-change early enough when braking. This makes a big difference in braking areas after long straights into slow corners. It can reduce your braking distance by as much as 10 metres. This will save you 1-2 tenths in lap time. It can also help you when attempting a pass on corner entry or defending a pass from a driver behind.

The down change needs to occur at the precise moment when the speed is reduced to a point where the wheels will not lock as you enter the gear below. Lock up and your braking distance will increase dramatically and you will ruin your tyres.

In many cars you can down change at the same moment of even just before you hit the brakes. This depends on the revs in current gear, gear ratios and the rate at which the car can reduce speed.

Tyres

Look after them – don’t lock them in braking and apply the absolute minimum steering angle required. If the tyres are making loads of noise you have applied too much lock. This will dramatically increase your tyre temps and mean you have to run less aggressive camber and pressures to make them last the race. This will lose you time.

Important Corners

Corners before long straights are the most important on any circuit. This is because for every mph extra you carry through the corner, you carry an extra mph all the way down the straight until you hit the brakes.

Fast corners before long straights are even more important than slow corners before straights because at higher speeds the car accelerates more slowly, so the extra mph you carry has a greater affect.

For corners before long straights you can afford to lose some time on entry if it means you will come out faster. Generally this means apex slightly further round the corner than the mid point. The longer the straight, the later the apex although on fast corners the apex point is pretty much in the middle because you must carry speed through fast corners for reasons mentioned above.

Set your car up for the most important corners on a track and you should be able to put in some fast times.

Power on Early

Ever wondered why sometimes it seems as though someone is faster down the straight than you? Its probably because they got their foot on the accelerator a fraction a a second before you.

Concentrate on getting back on full power as early in a corner as possible (just before the apex if possible, at the very latest, just after the apex). Think about this when you are driving and you will knock seconds off your lap times.

Using AnalyzeForSpeed you can see when the WR holders are getting on the power and compare that to your own best laps. Its amazing how early the fastest drivers get back on full throttle.

Splits

Know you’re split times so you know if you were quick or slow when you took a particular line through a section. Know the WR splits too so you know which sections you need to make up most time in.

Following Faster Racers

Even watching a replay of the WR is not the same as actually following a guy who is faster then you and emulating his/her lines. Sometimes following someone will show you a line you hadn’t noticed in a replay. This helped me massively on the final turn at AS Club.

This assumes you are quick enough to keep up for at least part of a lap.

Emulating WRs

Don’t watch a WR, see that the driver takes T1 at 87mph and then try and take T1 at 87mph, you will go off. Try to aim for a few mph less and build from there. You will get a feel for the amount of lock, trail braking, throttle control by doing this. With practice you may then be able to match the WR speed thru a particular corner.

Hope this helps.
#18 - janm
:wtf2:

This is some effort...or just copy/paste

Anyway thanks, man.
Don't worry - I'm at work and being paid for it! lol
err.....how do you play the replay :/ ?
Quote from Pellit :err.....how do you play the replay :/ ?

You need to put it in your LFS folder under /data/spr/ and then just just click on replays in the game.
I think he meant 'how did I watch the replay while I'm at work?' If that was what he meant then the first sentence of my original post will explain.
just a short question:

how on earth can demo racers drive gtr cars? when I drive the demo cars on BL I can't get faster than 1:32 or something...
WR at BLGP with XRT = 1m22.79, so you're ten seconds off the pace

XFG = 1m31.54
XRG = 1m32.37
Well he is not driving a GTR, he is driving the XR GT Turbo and this is a demo car. The actual WR on this car at BW GP is 1:22.790 (csimpok).
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How the hell ....
(28 posts, started )
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