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Question to singers - Sound Illusion
(90 posts, started )
#76 - wien
Quote from Mazz4200 :But, the reason vinyl sounds better is because your ears work in analogue not digital

Mastering may not the the whole truth, but this isn't it either. I don't want to make this thread into another one of "those", but any digital signal with sufficient sampling frequency (and dynamic range) is indistinguishable from the original analogue signal. Feel free to argue that CDs have insufficient sampling frequency, but I won't agree with you.
Quote from wien :Mastering may not the the whole truth, but this isn't it either. I don't want to make this thread into another one of "those", but any digital signal with sufficient sampling frequency (and dynamic range) is indistinguishable from the original analogue signal. Feel free to argue that CDs have insufficient sampling frequency, but I won't agree with you.

Even and odd order harmonics

Don't really know if that's applicable at CD's vs Vinyl, but it really makes a difference betwen tube guitar amplifiers (analog) and solid state amplifiers (digital)
Quote from RocksGt :Don't really know if that's applicable at CD's vs Vinyl, but it really makes a difference betwen tube guitar amplifiers (analog) and solid state amplifiers (digital)

Well there's also the matter of how clipping is handled by a valve amp - it often removes the need for a limiter, etc.

I wonder how many people who claim analog is better than digital actually don't use a switching amplifier for all their analog playback needs.
Quote from Hankstar :Gracias Rocks, you will be the first person in Spain to know when we're coming
We're very happy with the production on these and we're very excited about how the album will sound. I better go have a nap, we're playing in four hours.

Warn me when you get to Portugal then

Sounds fantastic!
Quote from wien :any digital signal with sufficient sampling frequency (and dynamic range) is indistinguishable from the original analogue signal.

Exactly. A 24 bit recording gives a far better dynamic range than the 96 Db offered by the CD. For instance, you'd be able to record, say, a cannon shot without dynamics loss or unwanted compression.

At 192 KHz you have a theorical frequency range up to about 80.000 Hertz, very very roughly. Plenty of room above the audible maximum, 20.000 Hertz (in young people). Is it important?
I'd say no, but some say yes. For instance, I read years ago that Rupert Neve's channel strips can theoretically record and respond up to frequencies of 150,000 Hertz. Some really skillfull sound engineers say they're able to tell the difference in sound quality from that channel strip to, say, an SSL channel strip.

Certainly Neve is a master in analog mixer design, and he knows what he does. Anyway I'm talking about mixing console that cost up to millions of dollars, not the average, cheap Boehringer mixer. And then again, better sampling rates and more bits in dynamic range help keeping sound quality good, since data loss induced by approximations in calculations during sound processing is reduced.

Apart from frequency response and dynamics, you must consider also two important factors in recording: preamp stage quality and ADC converters quality. The preamp must be good and have excellent frequency response and dynamic range to avoid artifacts. It should also have very low hiss. Most soundcards are not good in this department, except cards specifically geared for sound recording (and even there quality could be far from excellence). A good preamp costs.

But perhaps the most costly stage is the Analog Digital Converter. Most ADCs suck badly, just as most DACs. A good converter has excellent processing that keeps artifacts at large, but it costs. The ADCs on the WaveTerminal 192X cost 100$ more than those of the WaveTerminal 192L, just for 20 Dbs more in dynamic range response (-120Db in total). But the difference with soundcards with worse DACs and ADCs is HUGE. I remember comparing my previous SoundBlaster Live Platinum to the WaveTerminal. The sound was so much better, crisper, livelier, louder. And I thought the Live Platinum was good, before. So, overall, if your digital chain is good it can rival with analog designs at a fraction of the cost.

As for the vynil, if you want good dynamic ranges you have to separate the grooves more. A vynil normally can't handle well 120 Dbs of dynamic range because the arm would jump and skip with normally grooved vynils, so the grooves are heavier in some recordings, and there are considerations to be made about the speed of the record too (33 or 45). But neither a CD does, limited how it is at 44.100 KHz and 16 bits, (dynamic range of 96 Db). The CD sound is far from perfect, but limited how it is it could in most circumstances blow away the sound of the vynil provided that the whole chain is of high quality, with particular regard to the preamp and conversion stages, but also including effects and general processing.

Also, the general standardisation of mixes to satisfy the needs for a decent sound on the largest number of different speakers doesn't help. The mastering process has become a sort of science but in the past it was a sort of magic. Today that magic is substituted, in a lot of cases, by some numeric values (such as the average RMS power of most pop tunes) that become a sort of absolute reference. Only realeases not interested in mass markets are free from some form of orthodoxy in mastering.
#82 - halo
Quote from Kajojek(PL) :Ok I decided I'm going to present my first beat! http://files.filefront.com/Weirdmp3/;10067986;/fileinfo.html

Hi, I downloaded your mp3 and listened.
It sound is like recorded little high, also look like its in state of idea yet, or more like "intro". In the end, It felt like its not finished yet.
I working on these kind of home recording stuff for years in amateur way, nowadays I use FL, Acid, Soundforge and sometimes Absynth.
If anything I can help just PM or mail me.

@Hankstar; Best wishes for your project, I like the demo songs, sound is quality, nicely produced IMO. I guess you are about the finishing the album recording. I know a little bit about painful last stages of creating a new album from the Turkish band "657" which guitarist/vocalist is my closest friend.
I still remember how he was look like after a recording session, it was a total mess..
Good luck to you guys!
Dynamic range isn't desirable for vocals, recording or live performances. In both cases, dynamic range is compressed by a factor of 3 or more, to keep the volume level near constant throughout the singers range of notes (and also reduce the effect of how close the singer is to the microphone).

For feedback, the classis method is a series of speakers aimed at the performer. These are called (stage) monitor speakers. The modern alternative is earphones. For a singer, the feedback is usually loud enough to mask some of the internal sound heard by the singer.
Thanks Halo :up:
For a second I thought it was an announcement from the intercom of the local supermarket . Keep practicing and you'll be the next Tiesto
Personally i hate hearing my own voice i just cant stand it for some reason. But i know that i can sing its just hearing myself sing that i cant stand.
#89 - halo
Its good.
But, I think the tune is still not finished.
Generally I look for three parts in music; let say "intro-middle-final".
Karol, your tune's have intro part, its good I like it. I think you need to create the "middle and final" parts.
And the levels; a big bravo from me to you. It is nowhere to compare with your first tune (at early posts). Quality is better than first one.
And finally, dont expect too much from the community here, many of them may not understand how you work how difficult to make those ideas real etc. no broken hearts, dont forget.
Just continue...
Thank you Yes I often loose ideas after finishing the intro, I also didn't want to put too much unnecessary things this time so I left it like this. Another song coming soon! Hehe I promise it will be better quality than this one, practice practice practice.

Question to singers - Sound Illusion
(90 posts, started )
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