Quote from Intrepid :

Kimi only did F Renault for a year or two after karts b4 getting into F1... does that make F3 pointless?

No because Formula Renault is another car with wings and slicks that teaches the same skills and gives a similar experience, it may be a bit slower and cheaper but it is a racing car.

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It depends what you mean by 'motorsport' ladder. Is it a measurement of talent? Of course not. I can go and race F3 next year if I want... doesn't mean I am more talented than the average club karter.

Yeah right. If you had a multi-million pound racing budget I can assure you you'd soon find something more substantial to be sitting behind.

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The FACT is F1 teams ARE signing KART drivers.... They have realised that is where you need to look for THE best future talent.

Karts are like a kindergarten where all the keen little kids go so where is it logical to go and look for little kids with potential?

What F1 teams do is like companies offering sponsorship to the best students taking GCSEs (karts) to entice them to come to them after they've progressed up through the logical standard steps of A levels (FBMW) and university (GP2).

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In fact I would go as far as to say that if F1 teams were BRAVE enough their are several kart drivers today that would be ABSOLUTELY fine in a F1 car! But the level of risk is quite clear for the F1 teams...

Bollocks...

...I'm not even go to start to argue why that isn't true.

Quote :

Karts are like a kindergarten where all the keen little kids go so where is it logical to go and look for little kids with potential?

What F1 teams do is like companies offering sponsorship to the best students taking GCSEs (karts) to entice them to come to them after they've progressed up through the logical standard steps of A levels (FBMW) and university (GP2).

That's WRONG. If karting to cars was like that then surely once the driver had served his 'degree' he would be able to go back to his 'GSCE' level and pass with ease. This simply isn't the case.

Even when Schumacher competed in the worlds back in 2001 he needed rain and hometrack knowledge to get near the front (he also APPARENTLY closed the track off a week before for private testing... just a bit fun... I think NOT). In fact rumour has it that after the 2006 F1 championship when Schumi tested with tonykart he was a few tenths of the pace. That's like someone with a 1st degree failing a GSCE paper straight after according to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... arting1.co.uk/news/?p=140

he span! that's an F lol damp circuit tho

notice how I use actual real comparisons, and situations... and you lot don't... interesting that!

So that weird comparison of your doesn't work. Kimi would GET SLAUGHTERED by the likes of Ardigo now... OK not slaughtered but he wouldn't win. And last time I checked your can't pay your way to a degree

Considering numerous drivers have stated the closest thing to an F1 or Indy Car is a kart it isn't a million miles off that a top class 125cc Gearbox driver could get an F1 car and do alright. There would be issues at first, but I don't think they would be bad at all.

Back in the real world how many gearbox drivers have gone straight into a paid racing seat? As you are well aware gearbox karts are not part of the conventional progression pattern to any proper racing cars, they're merely there for club entertainment. Look at Moto GP and the 125s, the 125s may be as good to watch racing and highly competitive but there isn't a rider on that grid who doesn't want to get onto a 250 and then a Moto GP bike is there?

Aren't we just getting a little off topic here?

Quote from ajp71 :

Back in the real world how many gearbox drivers have gone straight into a paid racing seat? As you are well aware gearbox karts are not part of the conventional progression pattern to any proper racing cars, they're merely there for club entertainment. Look at Moto GP and the 125s, the 125s may be as good to watch racing and highly competitive but there isn't a rider on that grid who doesn't want to get onto a 250 and then a Moto GP bike is there?

HHmm... 125cc runs under the same umbrella as motoGP. The same weekend, the same track.

But 125cc/250cc/motogp has a certain amount of progression and promotion to it. Same manufacturers too.

Karting is a slight odd entity in that you have a professional scene with the top drivers... Ardigo, Thonon, Fore etc... and as I will admit at the same time a progression for young drivers with DIFFERENT (not higher) aspirations.

Karting is more it's own thing. It has it's own tracks, manufacturers, and drivers.

Most young drivers leave before reaching the pinnacle of karting. So to say whatever car series they move into is 'higher' is ludicrous. It's just a step towards a certain route. It isn't a measure of talent.

If you actually did a bit of research you may find out more about karting, rather than just being ignorant. The actual main problem karting HAS got is it's lack of marketing. It does my head in the karting isn't on TV like it used to be back in the mid nineties. Champions of the Future was just awesome to watch on ITV on a Saturday afternoon

Quote from sam93 :

Aren't we just getting a little off topic here?

lol just a bit. Anyway.. watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFKLcqb2y0 - might give u a little motivation to check some karting out.

Quote from Intrepid :

Most young drivers leave before reaching the pinnacle of karting. So to say whatever car series they move into is 'higher' is ludicrous. It's just a step towards a certain route. It isn't a measure of talent.

You've hit the nail on the head most people don't want to reach the supposed pinnacle of karting, which is really only an extension of club/amateur racing and a marketing exercise for kart manufacturers. The talented drivers in karting can't wait to get out of karts and into cars and maybe come back for some light hearted fun but not to pursue a career in it.

Quote from ajp71 :

You've hit the nail on the head most people don't want to reach the supposed pinnacle of karting, which is really only an extension of club/amateur racing and a marketing exercise for kart manufacturers. The talented drivers in karting can't wait to get out of karts and into cars and maybe come back for some light hearted fun but not to pursue a career in it.

completely incorrect again. A thoery based on nothing than what you hope.

I actually SPEAK to these drivers you speak off... and that IS not the case. About 100% of the would LOVE to win the world championships and recognise what it represents. Even some of the top drivers would happily stay in karts for some more years if they achieved a paid drive. However, they have to priotise their ambitions of proffesional racing. Thing is, in karts you have to BE AWESOME to get a paid drive... in cars well.... that isn't the case... There are several drivers IN F1 ffs who shouldn't even be paid cabies let alone F1 drivers

Can you even NAME a driver you speak off? Name a karter who races at the highest level who can't wait to leave... GO ON!

I can't actually name a karter. Because nobody cares, because it's not relevent to motorsport except to spot the first inklings of talent.

You are correct that F1 teams fund a driver based on their karting, because they want to get in on a driver with talent early. Plenty that get funded in karting based on decent results don't get to F1 because it turns out they couldn't cope with faster proper car.

But seriously - who grows up wanting to be a gokart driver?

You are using real names, but only one-offs. Yes, Kimi missed out on F3 etc, but an exception does not a rule make.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can't actually name a karter.

nuff said really... says it all! You talk about something you have ABSOLUTELY no idea about.

Because karting isn't interesting or exciting enough to make it into national press, local press or motorsport press (although there is a tiny bit in Motorsport News, but who cares anyway). If it was as good as you say it is, then we'd be inundated with information about it, even with just basic stuff like who won the championships at various levels.

The fact is nobody really cares about karting because it's intended for children, and as such nobody knows or wants to know about it.

I couldn't name a single karting champion, other than those that made it to proper motorsport (where they spend the next few years learning stuff applicable to racing cars).

I can also throw that back at you too - why are you in this thread then you know NOTHING about real racing cars or what's involved in running/racing them? It's not even as though this thread is about go-karts.

I am fully aware of what it takes to run a racing car team. I speak to many race car drivers in proper racing series.

Unlike you who seems to complete alienate yourself from karting, and take a completely ignorant view to it.

I take the FULL picture, actually SPEAK, and MEET drivers/teams from all areas of motorsport and then form an opinion based on that.

I don't enter some never heard of car series for old single seaters and assume I know everything because I heel toe when I drive.

You've never heard of Monoposto? It's one of the longest running non-professional single seater categories in the UK. This year is the clubs 50th anniversary. Quite a few figureheads of motorsport have driven in the club. Ever heard of Allan Staniforth? Don Pye? Ralph Firman?

You speak and meet drivers and teams? Woot. So do I. Then I work on them. Then I drive them. I take a fairly full picture myself Ever heard of Comtec?

Quote from Intrepid :

I take the FULL picture, actually SPEAK, and MEET drivers/teams from all areas of motorsport and then form an opinion based on that.

Have you spoken to met and given up hours helping for the fun of it teams drivers running club single seaters, club production cars/roadsports, professional single seaters and professional endurance racing cars. I've spoken to and know well people running all of those and have experienced first hand what running three of those is like. Unless you've actually been to events in a role other than spectating and actually have some idea what car preparation consists of I suggest you don't have any idea what you're talking about.