I think it's time to take simulated racing to be a spectator sport, in 3D, and big time . In Sweden we already have had a televised series in 10 episodes, but I'm thinking online.

The solution for LFS is simple, I hope... I have a master in computer science, so the chance I'm right is good .

I'm sorry if anyone already have suggested this. I tried to search the net and this forum for such a suggestion, but could only find the 2D solution.

Make an LFS server/client application that works like LFS, but it can only be a spectator, but in 3D of course, just as LFS. Lets call it LFS Virtual Spectator (VS), for now. Make it function something like this:

1. VS connects to the race server.

2. A VS allows 30+ (in reality 120 should be no problem) VS to be connected to itself.

3. The race server itself only needs a couple of VS connected to it. Maybe when you set up a league race you also setup two VS.

4. Every VS is in itself a VS server, like Torrent-clients.

5. The VS that are connected to the race server are registered in a way, so the rest of the VS can connect to them without disturbing the race server.

6. A VS of course knows the VS it's connected to, call it the mother VS, but also knows which VS is the grandmother's VS, and so on, so if the mother goes away, it immediately connects to the grandmother, or higher.

7. VS is of course free of charge.

8. VS is so simple to use that our parents can use them. Those born in the 40's

Now say we start a race server, and two other servers with VS on them. Now 60 VS can connect to those two. To these 60 VS another 1800 can connect, to those 1800 another 54000 can connect.

If we can have 120 spectators on each server, we get 28800 connected to the VS that are connected to the two top level VS, and then 3 456 000 on the next level...

I'm only human so my reasoning above probably has some flaws, but hopefully they can be corrected without loosing the LFS Virtual Spectator. Actually I already see some flaws, but they don't seem too serious .

There was already a project called LfS-TV, where the gameserver (or a relay-server? I don't remember) streamed the .mpr of the race to viewers... You just had to connect to the server via LfS-TV, open LfS and start the created replay... Sadly it never really took off, so the project slowly died...

Fecking cruising or licence scripts are the focus now it seems...

Quote from OP :

7. VS is of course free of charge.

Seeing as Demo users cannot watch replays on tracks or of cars that they haven't paid to unlock, I'm not sure about the likelihood of this.

Sam

Quote from bbman :

There was already a project called LfS-TV, where the gameserver (or a relay-server? I don't remember) streamed the .mpr of the race to viewers... You just had to connect to the server via LfS-TV, open LfS and start the created replay... Sadly it never really took off, so the project slowly died...

Fecking cruising or licence scripts are the focus now it seems...

The problem with that was perhaps that you needed a license for LFS to be able to see a race. I don't think my relatives, friends and colleagues should need to buy LFS to see me make a fool out of myself in races .

If we can get a lot of spectators to view races, then the organizers could be able to sell commercial space in the races; on the cars, helmets, drivers and tracks.

My parents and some of my friends and some of my colleagues has actually showed some interests of seeing me race...

Quote from Dark Elite :

Seeing as Demo users cannot watch replays on tracks or of cars that they haven't paid to unlock, I'm not sure about the likelihood of this.

Sam

I'm hoping that was the easiest way to lock LFS. With that I mean when they wrote the code to lock LFS they realized that too make the replay function work with unlocked tracks and cars they had to write a lot more code to lock LFS, so they didn't .

i dont want 10000 people to watch me crash

LFS-tv is a very good idea. I hope you can continue this project. It would be nice if demo version of LFS can read replay files of full version. There is no reason it could not.

Sim racing is ready to make it's coming out. We can see things are moving everywhere in the world. Simbin launched last month the race-room concept ( http://www.race-room.com ), LFS will be on TV, sims were on TV in Sweden...several projects in south America too.

LFS has a unique opportunity to take that train. Because it has no licensing problem concerning broadcasting. And with the replay files, broadcasting could be very efficient, using not much bandwith for a perfect result. Lot better than video broadcasting.

Quote from Juls :

LFS-tv is a very good idea. I hope you can continue this project. It would be nice if demo version of LFS can read replay files of full version. There is no reason it could not.

Sim racing is ready to make it's coming out. We can see things are moving everywhere in the world. Simbin launched last month the race-room concept ( http://www.race-room.com ), LFS will be on TV, sims were on TV in Sweden...several projects in south America too.

LFS has a unique opportunity to take that train. Because it has no licensing problem concerning broadcasting. And with the replay files, broadcasting could be very efficient, using not much bandwith for a perfect result. Lot better than video broadcasting.

I know my parents, and some of my friends and colleagues would like to see me race in the league I'm currently participating in, and none of them race themself.

Some people like to see cars crash, some people like to see team compete against each others, some people like to see drivers compete on equal terms, some people just like the pretty colors. There are all kinds of people so it's pretty impossible to predict how big of a TV-sport simracing can be...

Quote from jwardy :

i dont want 10000 people to watch me crash

Lol, definetly would add some pressure :P

However, some races are broadcasted anyways so the pressure would still be there

I think it would be cool actually to have this kinda thing were u can spec a server without being in it. (Awesome stalking tool)

Great idea, but in reality it probably won't be anything more then an idea.

To begin with, Scawen would need to code some form of server/client to enable all this to begin with, and this really strays from the current objective of creating 'the best simulator possible' so that alone stops it dead in its tracks.

Another thing you need to consider is the bandwidth required for all this, who is going/willing to host a 'VS' server that allows 120+ users connect to it for free? Ok, so you mention potential advertisement and sponsors and stuff, but this won't happen right away.

Finally, the technology is already available, and on both fronts. LFS-TV for people who have LFS (although this could do with some more development), and just regular broadcasting/streaming technology which has been around for a few years now.

Good idea, maybe it could be made p2p, every1 watching is giving the data to others too, so +1

whoa, Kirmelius likes this idea :bounce8:

and yes, p2p rules

Quote from jwardy :

i dont want 10000 people to watch me crash

xD

Quote from Rooble :

Great idea, but in reality it probably won't be anything more then an idea.

To begin with, Scawen would need to code some form of server/client to enable all this to begin with, and this really strays from the current objective of creating 'the best simulator possible' so that alone stops it dead in its tracks.

Another thing you need to consider is the bandwidth required for all this, who is going/willing to host a 'VS' server that allows 120+ users connect to it for free? Ok, so you mention potential advertisement and sponsors and stuff, but this won't happen right away.

Finally, the technology is already available, and on both fronts. LFS-TV for people who have LFS (although this could do with some more development), and just regular broadcasting/streaming technology which has been around for a few years now.

I don't think the bandwidth is a problem. Even if a server can only support 30 spectators, we still can support millions of viewers. The Spectator-Tree have no limit in size, since the top server still only serves 30 other VS-servers, no matter how many VS-servers are connected in total.

As we speak it is already free of charge to connect to a server online and race. I don't see why those having setup a race-server can not also set up a VS-server. Especially since they are the once who later can charge companies for commercials. As soon as they can show any kind of viewer ratings, of course.

The client server code is already there in LFS. LFS can send spectator information to all connected, and LFS can receive spectator information from another LFS.

In principal you take the LFS code and remove the driving code, add code for being a server and a client at the same time, and add code for handling if the server the VS is currently connected to, goes down.

As I often say to my project leaders - I have thought of everything . They immediately realize that this, of course, is impossible .

Personally, I do not like the idea of streaming the mpr file, since I believe this will not be considered as viewing the race live, and you need to buy LFS even if you never will race in it, and LFS is to complicated for people who do not have our computer experience. A broadcast solution a la TV I do not like either since you can not have the freedom of choosing viewing angles like you have in LFS.

The VS-version of LFS needs to be so simple that my parents can use it, that is I should be able to send them a link via mail, and they can click this link and VS-LFS starts and connects to the correct race.

Now I'm digressing but say default settings is at TV-follow the leader. Big buttons which says Next Driver, Previous Driver, and maybe Cockpit Camera and TV Camera buttons. Maybe Next Camera and Previous Camera. Save race on exit should be default. Starting VS-LFS with no link, you can chose to watch recorded races or get a list of servers to watch live...