i don't think so gener_al, the cars will never be 100% balanced and the fxo is still faster for the short pickup racing. if somebody didn't join because of the balancing he wont join in the future too. when the tbo's where pretty much alone back in the stcc time the server was packed a lot but i think that was because people had nothing else to go on, now they have singleseaters, gtr's and bump'n'jump so the base gets stretched.

personally i love the come back of lrf at race2, of course it's not easy if we just see 2-5 people online the races tend to get boring easily with the 50/50 split of the cars. what i would do is (saw that mentioned already on some other thread) limit higher licensed drivers to the high license servers, best example was stcc, people had to race tbo to get points so they did, a bit less freedom of choice not always has to be bad.

Sorry to disagree with you on this sam, but the way i see it TBO on XTRA2 was very popular then the new car/s came and interest logically dwindled.
Now to spark interest you have had some good events and have "toyed" with the TBO by adding different classes, but ultimately this is just a gimmick , which is obvious, represnted by the influx of visitors.
CTRA2 just needs to establish itself again as a place where clean good TBO racing can grow again. I'm sure i speak for an alienated minority ( long time TBO fans ) that have been subject to these mixed class ideas (which are fun but should be left for an event server/league) and the tweaking of the balancing in the TBO class that scawen has changed from LFS S2q-y.
What i do find surpising that you, seem to think the balancing has no effect .... come on now .. even coming from the FWD side of the TBO table, i know for a fact that many XRT racers just stopped due to it being so far out.
Also id like to just add that its just not CTRA Race2 server that i see this problem of lack of TBO racers. Infact i see more that TBO has become split. XRT only servers RB4 only servers and of course FXO.

Im not saying that having the mixed server wasnt a good thing to try , maybe its a good start. I think also its the down to the cycle of LFS users , a cycle from old to new , the newer generation perhaps more more inclinded to racing the S2 cars

All i know that TBO has been on a steady decline for a while.

The TBO servers were best when you had an increased points multiplier for the harder/slower cars IMO.

You had your regular load of FXOs, but also those who were going for big points in the XRT and RB4...it made the racing more interesting, especially when you could get the jump off the line in XRT/RB4 and have to spend the whole race fighting off a swarm of FXO drivers.

The FXO seems to be all conquering again and the RB4 is now quicker, but the XRT is unchanged. Maybe giving people incentive with the multipliers again could help ?

The multi-class aspect does give us LRF fans somewhere to race, but it's usually the case of only about 5 or 6 drivers on the grid

Quote from Bean0 :

The TBO servers were best when you had an increased points multiplier for the harder/slower cars IMO.

You had your regular load of FXOs, but also those who were going for big points in the XRT and RB4...it made the racing more interesting, especially when you could get the jump off the line in XRT/RB4 and have to spend the whole race fighting off a swarm of FXO drivers.

Spot on

Maybe a little tweaking with how race grids are formed from previous race results also, perhaps it could work again

I am not overly familar with the technical side of the systems used for CTRA servers , but i do miss a regular TBO server.

If we moved Race2 back to TBO only, the server would sit empty. I know this is the case because we've tried it. As troy says, it's a victim of the availability of some of the other classes in the CTRA - the SS and GTR. However, the one class that I'm absolutely sure it's NOT a victim of is LRF.

There's nothing to stop TBO-loving drivers joining and racing on Race 2, and when they do that it runs as a purely TBO server. However, what is quite evident is that they don't do that. Even when there are no LRF drivers on the server, there are also no TBO drivers on there. When you get a few LRF drivers in there, you occasionally see a few TBO drivers attracted to the server and vice versa.

With Race 2, we're catering for two tiny minorities in LFS. The problem is not the classes on the server but the people that don't drive them, and there's very little we can do about that. It's an LFS cultural issue. If we kill EITHER of those two minority classes from this server, the other minority class will not see any up-surge in usage. The server is being helped by being multi-class, not hindered. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression - if people who USE LFS choose to race something other than TBO or LRF, they have my support. I'm making concessions by running quiet servers for people who rarely use them. It'd be a lot easier to kill them off or convert them to cars that ARE driven.

I will consider re-tweaking the car points between the TBO cars, but doing so will not see an increase in usage for any of the cars in TBO. I've said it already, the issue is not in any aspect of the CTRA suite of servers. It's elsewhere in the culture of LFS.

With all due respect, I learned, long ago to take anything that's said on the forum with a very small pinch of salt. TBO and LRF drivers are definitely among the most vocal on the forum, and they are most definitely also the least often seen in LFS servers. I'm afraid that I'm just not really seeing where things are broken, in the CTRA in this respect at all. It doesn't matter how many hours I throw at this particular aspect of the system, nothing will change in the servers.

Quote from SamH :

snip..
There's nothing to stop TBO-loving drivers joining and racing on Race 2, and when they do that it runs as a purely TBO server. However, what is quite evident is that they don't do that. Even when there are no LRF drivers on the server, there are also no TBO drivers on there. When you get a few LRF drivers in there, you occasionally see a few TBO drivers attracted to the server and vice versa.

To be fair, thats not my experience over the last 3-4 months.

I normally get in from work 5-6pm GMT, and have been jumping on Race 2 with the FXO (the latest car I've decided to learn to drive). The vast majority of the time (80%+) I've been the only one on the server to start with until a few other TBO drivers (mainly March Hare, Void etc) join in.

Sometimes a few LRF drivers hook up, although mostly (obviously with exceptions!) they seems to unfamiliar with the cars and end up running alongside us TBO drivers, which can lead to some very interesting races

I'm only on for an hour or so until the Mrs arrives home for tea, but thats my (pretty comprehensive) early evening recollection of late.

I feel your certainly more likely to have the TBO's providing the kick-start to populating the server with a decent contingent.

I'm March Hare and I drive the XRT.

Please keep the TBO class! There were many people racing there yesterday evening. Granted it was empty when i joined but soon the others came. I even got about a 100 points while cruising alone. And a lap record too. Which was broken once others joined.

HVS5b, that's not an argument for changing the way things are right now. The server is there if you want to use it, though it's not too popular. But it IS THERE.

Nobody has actually made a solid argument for ditching the LRF. The strongest argument for ditching the LRF, in fact, is the fact that the people that BEGGED for it to be provided just don't use it now that it is there. If I drop it, though, it'll be a knee-jerk response to time-wasters, and I generally don't opt for those decisions.

Sorry if you picked me up wrong Sam, I don't think it needs changing at all. Just a few more racers would be nice

Anyone driving the LRF cars gets my respect, they are total b*stards to drive fast!

Ahh okay, cool

i guess i need to answer on that sam, because i'm one of the beggars i would love to join race2 every day for 24h but i can't what i do try is to go there whenever time allows me to do so. that wasn't to much for the last month or two i must admit, tried to not look like a complete noob in the etm relegations and also started to organize weekly lx racing on wednesday evening, so race2 had to step back a bit.

i still think that lrf + tbo can live happily together on one server, it is just hard to get the already small userbase for those two classes together on a specific day and time. once the server got more then 5-10 connections it fills pretty fast (also with new faces) its the group effect i guess, as soon as the server is popular people see it in the server list and want to have a go.

why not try something different to get the initial 5-10 connections, make up a specific time every 2 - 4 days and then join there together. the system is there we just need some more regulars to make other people notice it. since i'm posting already what do you think would be a good time for most of the europe based people? 18-19.00 UTC?

Quote from March Hare :

I'm March Hare and I drive the XRT.

Please keep the TBO class! There were many people racing there yesterday evening. Granted it was empty when i joined but soon the others came. I even got about a 100 points while cruising alone. And a lap record too. Which was broken once others joined.

Hi March Hare,
Sorry I nicked your record, I just had time for a few laps and did not even get a full race... real life gets in the way of my racing a lot with a job, a wife and 2 kids...
Don't worry the record is yours when you get back on this track, it was in no way a good lap. Here is the poor set I used if you want a go

I kind of like race 2 as it is now, with only a few racers online. It gives us room for mistakes and time to learn / improve the difficult LRF combos, and beginners out of race 1 can also take time to learn TBOs. Wait and see, until the user base with silver and more is a bit bigger?
OT/ Sam do you have stats available somewhere - per license users?

I'm sure that the "group effect" is what causes servers to populate. This is specifically why the TBO-only server won't work, the LRF-only server won't work, and the only chance either of these classes has of getting use in the CTRA is a multi-class environment. Pool the two classes in one server, give them results according to their individual class, and you maximise the chances of getting some racing with those classes.

This will continue to be the case until the TBO and/or LRF achieve popularity in the LFS culture again, if that happens at all. This is our best effort to support it, but we can't make people want to drive those classes.

Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :

CTRA2 just needs to establish itself again as a place where clean good TBO racing can grow again. I'm sure i speak for an alienated minority ( long time TBO fans ) that have been subject to these mixed class ideas (which are fun but should be left for an event server/league) and the tweaking of the balancing in the TBO class that scawen has changed from LFS S2q-y.

[...]

Im not saying that having the mixed server wasnt a good thing to try , maybe its a good start. I think also its the down to the cycle of LFS users , a cycle from old to new , the newer generation perhaps more more inclinded to racing the S2 cars

All i know that TBO has been on a steady decline for a while.

I'm afraid I don't agree with you about CTRA adopting multi-class gimmickery. I think it has turned out to be the best solution to address the dwindling S1 car popularity. Race 2 as a multi-class server is not a cause of the problem, it's a best-effort solution for it. Ultimately, it's up to the community to take up the torch, but that means bums on Race 2 seats. Save Race 2, save the cheerleader..

Quote from Mille Sabords :

Don't worry the record is yours when you get back on this track, it was in no way a good lap. Here is the poor set I used if you want a go

I go flat out on a track I know pretty well in a car I think I know well with a set that I've been tweaking for a long time and you come along with a poor set and poor driving and beat my time... Just shows how great a driver I am.

RL just gets in the way of everything.

I checked LFSworld and I'm 1.640s off WR... in only 47 seconds. Still room for your name on the CTRA records hall of fame it seems! Keep trying, you're safe until Void shows up

Luckily he drives the FXO.

Quote from March Hare :

Unluckily he drives the FXO.

I know

Quote from Mille Sabords :

OT/ Sam do you have stats available somewhere - per license users?

I don't have server usage per licence, nope. It's an idea for the future, though.

Thx for the flowers.

Unluckily I have very little chances to get on track untill CeBIT begins...

Someone have to earn my money, and often it´s me

Now the race 2 server has been crowded two last times I've been racing.

Great racing, I only wish it became even more popular

I have to agree with you frokki, unbelievabe races last night!
I'm usually mid pack racer (meaning slow and inconsistent ) but last night I could not see the leading cars after 1/2 a lap!
3-5 XRT's fighting on FE gold close to WR pace for 9 laps... to bad I was 3 seconds per lap off pace :hide:

Yep, there's been some really good racing on that server the last couple of nights. I'll be there tonight too! Hope the trend continues! Come, come!!

Quote from Gnomie :

Yep, there's been some really good racing on that server the last couple of nights. I'll be there tonight too! Hope the trend continues! Come, come!!

Sounds like fun! I might drag my wheel out tonight, been ages since I sat down and actually played LFS.

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

Sounds like fun! I might drag my wheel out tonight, been ages since I sat down and actually played LFS.

The more the merrier

It was great to see such a good turn out of clean fast racers. Really enjoyed it. Hope to see you all again toonight!

I'll be there. Hopefully at the same time you are.