Quote from srdsprinter :

But the two polls I've seen show 12% and 8% actually dissappointed/struggling with the changes.

There you go. And FYI, Im not "struggling" with the new patch, in fact, I have tested it again today and its not as bad as I thought in my first 5 minutes with it... that said, yes. Im disappointed by it. And I like to express my disappointment.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

The same reason you didn't spend £50 million just to get your BMW Sauber back on track after you crashed it.

You will have to use either more words, or another example. What are you saying here?

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Thats realism. Thats what people use as an argument against criticism like mine. Thats why I made OBVIOUS that their argument is not really an argument, but a mantra that they have learned to repeat and put against any one daring to question things.

What does server efficiency have to do with Shift+P, care to explain it?

Its the balance between how much realism you can include, before the driving becomes second to the chores of racing.

i.e. Meeting Sponsers, buying safety equipment, driving to the track, checking the fluids, making yourself bulemic to shed that extra pound a la Coulthard, hitting on the pit-babes, etc are all well and good, but making you simulate them would add nothing to the experience. They would drag the whole experience down, cept maybe for the pit-babes....

Scavier has a vision of the purest racing simulator they can make. That's why they do what they do. They have the freedom to do it at their own pace, with their own priorities to that end.

I hope that kinda tells you a bit why they do what they do...

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Thats realism. Thats what people use as an argument against criticism like mine. Thats why I made OBVIOUS that their argument is not really an argument, but a mantra that they have learned to repeat and put against any one daring to question things.

What does server efficiency have to do with Shift+P, care to explain it?

Well lets go for a very likely situation. You have spun and flipped your UF1 into the middle of the track, after you swerved around trying to work out how to change gear. Everyone else who fully understands the changes, and wants to have a fun race with their friends on a realistic racing simulation, but one that they don't have to spend 2 hours in the pit garage pushing buttons to start playing, well they are coming to lap you. Since you can't get your car back onto its wheels, and there is no safety car, then the obvious thing to do is include a button to clear your car from the track. But wait...the devs have listened to you, so that button does not exist. Oh dear...

Vote to ban Bodhidharmazen...

Banned from the server.

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Thats realism. Thats what people use as an argument against criticism like mine. Thats why I made OBVIOUS that their argument is not really an argument, but a mantra that they have learned to repeat and put against any one daring to question things.

What does server efficiency have to do with Shift+P, care to explain it?

Again. I've already offered and explanation but again you refuse to listen.

I'm too blue in the face to talk good bye

Quote from lizardfolk :

It's a work in progress and also, a few "unrealistic" things have to be overlooked for the convenience of the players.

Interesting.. some of them yes and some of them no. And I'm free to accept them and to shout my mouth. No. Its a work in progress, granted, the only game that has taken longer time to develop is (TMK) Duke Nukem Forever, but here at least we can try (wait, we even have to pay) for an alpha version.

Quote from lizardfolk :

But just because there's a few elements of unrealism (that IMO doesn't even matter) doesn't mean we should scrap everything that we already have that are realistic and turn it into another mediocre arcade racer.

Exactly in your opinion (and most forum members for that matter). IMO there are things that require at least the same attention and NO ONE complain about them...

Quote from lizardfolk :

I dont like the polarized extremes of your opinion of whether we should make it completely realistic or not realistic at all.

LOL! I have NEVER said anything about I want it to be not realistic at all!!! I WANT A SIMULATION, but also the option to turn off some characteristics (like for example clutch damage when I don't have a controller with clutch.

Quote from lizardfolk :

It is impossible to make something completely realistic, but that is by no means an excuse to not incorporate as much realism as possible

Then you are contradicting yourself. Why custom views? Why Shift+P? Why (etc etc etc)?

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Then you are contradicting yourself. Why custom views? Why Shift+P? Why (etc etc etc)?

What i mean by that is just because we have custom views or Shift+P. That is no excuse for the devs to say "alright that's not realistic, so we wont add clutch damage, engine damage, or ANY DAMAGE for that matter".

Please listen/enteract with people who are trying to converse with you....

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Thats realism. Thats what people use as an argument against criticism like mine. Thats why I made OBVIOUS that their argument is not really an argument, but a mantra that they have learned to repeat and put against any one daring to question things.

What does server efficiency have to do with Shift+P, care to explain it?

while I understand this is my weakest point in the argument I will try my best.

Shift+P is not realistic. There is no avoiding this. It gets around the realism of needing to drive to the pits after a race/crash/whatever. On the otherhand, shift+p is not used while racing. It provides no advantage to anyone using it at pitting moves you to last place. I feel that no matter how advanced a simulation becomes it is still just that: a mathematical representation real events and for our case it's on our PC's.

Perhaps along this argument you want to virtually turn the knobs on your adjustible shocks and wrench on those pesky roll bars and magically fabricate almost infinitely variable ration gearboxes. After all, this is a simulation.

Getting OT a bit i guess. This is a racing sim. The effects of shfit+p are unrelated to the outcome of any semi-organized race on any server. thats the best I got. Perhaps a more señor member (:razz could explain for me what I'm trying to say

Quote from srdsprinter :

Please listen/enteract with people who are trying to converse with you....

I can't wait until to see your first post when S3 comes out.

"OMG I hit the back of a car when braking and now my engine goes all hot and dies?! WTF! They left in the chat system, and broken glass doesn't go in my eyes when I crash, so why make engines fail!11!?"

Quote from mattlikespeoples :

while I understand this is my weakest point in the argument I will try my best.

Thank you matt, I don't agree with our argument but you are a gentleman.


TO ALL:

Thank you all for your participation/discussion in this thread. I'm happy with the results and have enjoyed even the heated moments.

Thanks and good night.

the devs should all handbuild supercomputers optimized to run LFS and simulate EVERY aspect of EVERYTHING on earth then deliver them, not unlike santa, to all registered S2 users

"wtf?!?! This butterfly on the otherside of the world flapped its wings and now I iz in a hurricane while driving FE CLUB!!!!111!!1"


/perhaps unnecisary but just havin fun


in the end, LFS is a prgram on your computer. Come December 21, 2112, shift+p wont matter

Quote from mattlikespeoples :

"wtf?!?! This butterfly on the otherside of the world flapped its wings and now I iz in a hurricane while driving FE CLUB!!!!111!!1"

You joke but that has happened before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaZL6Bz2fG8

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

You joke but that has happened before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaZL6Bz2fG8

you're just provoking mroe usage of unrealistic features.

"Holy crap!!! SHIFT+RSHIFT+RSHIFT+RSHIFT+RSHIFT+RSHIFT+R"
"Nice race"
"oops"

Quote from hamidude2006 :

the new patch is crap get rid of it i want my xrt turbo back

You have the FBM. that's an OPEN WHEEL. Be grateful.

Quote from hamidude2006 :

the new patch is crap get rid of it i want my xrt turbo back

Congratulations on your first ever post on this forum, after being signed up for over a year. Since you have not paid for the XRT, I don't think you can claim to own it. Back into your little stereotype box with you methinks.

Quote from Gunn :

"Hardcore" is a term used often by those who don't like driving aids removed or who think the sim is really "just for fun", when they refer to changes that promote realism and make the driving more of a skill than a knack. When you look at the huge body of racing titles that have been made for PC, LFS leans towards the "hardcore" direction as opposed to the "arcade" direction. The term isn't perfect, but is easy to interpret in context.

oh i just meant, the game is a sim. So any game labelled a sim to me should be as realistic as possible. the more realistic the game is i'd say the more "normal" it is, not hardcore, just real

Quote from hamidude2006 :

the new patch is crap get rid of it i want my xrt turbo back

Can I getta LOL?

Once you've paid for something, then you can claim that you own it and be entitled to complain about it and expect people to listen - if your complaint is actually valid. Since you're trying what's basically a free sample, I'm afraid it's just tough luck mate

On topic: I'm surprised to see such strong resistance from an experienced licensed user. I have a two-pedal wheel setup and I've had to re-adjust to a few things myself but I welcome it. I won't repeat other peoples' arguments - not least because they don't seem to be sinking in - but I will say Patch Y is one the best forward steps this game has made since some friends turned me on to it in 2003.

Live for Speed has been a simulator since the 0.04 days, and it will stay that way.

In any case, go read my new DRIVER TIPS thread in the newbie forum about how to keep your clutch alive!

I'm going over to rFactor... this has been ruined now. Fox feels dead now.

Quote from Venus :

Fox feels dead now.

yeap, FOX + AS Club is not the same

Good to see you, pussy...

Bye!

Byeeee.....don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out

Actually RACING, not chasing lap records or hotlapping HAS NOT changed, it's the same as it ever was.

Enjoy rF

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

You won't be missed.