I love LFS and think it gets consistently better as we get each new patch. Can't wait for the long-awaited AI improvements, too.

There is one issue that I am surprised hasn't been addressed and that is the inconsistent or just plain missing FFB. It appears that road and curb bumps are inconsistently handled by the FFB. Sometimes you will feel them and sometimes you won't.

I think it may have to do with the FFB being oriented around steering torque only, instead of the full range of steering and tire imputs, but who knows?

The one aspect that sums it all up for me (to avoid rehashing the lengthy debates about LFS FFB vs. GTR2, etc.) is how on Earth can you not feel a thing through the wheel when the visual/graphical engine is vibrating the car like a sawtooth? Clearly one aspect of the sim thinks the car is driving over a surface (curb typically) that is causing the whole car and driver's head to vibrate severely, yet the FFB thinks you are driving on a glass-smooth surface.

Aside from the fact that this is just plain wrong, it spoils the otherwise terrific sense of immersion that the developers of LFS have obviously worked so hard to achieve. You can even feel the torque pull when shifting gears in a FWD car!

Avoiding the old debates, can people reply if:

a) you agree with me, or:

b) you do not experience the situation where FFB is missing some of the time you see the visual vibration effect.

For those answering "b," I'd love to know what your configuration is! I am using a G25 set-up according to the LFS manual.

Well the FFB is definately great now with FBM and new South city, going over curbs wakes up my brother.. If the view and your car is shaking that doesn't necceserily means it should be transfered to the steering wheel, especially in the road cars. My RL car Golf MKII GT is very, VERY stiff, it's like i don't have the springs at all (gotta check that up already :tilt and i feel every single little bump on the road, but through my but, not through the steering wheel..

Quote from Marc Collins :

I think it may have to do with the FFB being oriented around steering torque only, instead of the full range of steering and tire imputs, but who knows?

I have understood this is the reason.

It is often heard also that as wheels can only vibrate to right and left, there then would not be point to implement other forces as those would feel fake, but who knows about that, I find it decent, just would need some moving and shaking platform that would bring rest of forces to play

Quote from Marc Collins :

The one aspect that sums it all up for me (to avoid rehashing the lengthy debates about LFS FFB vs. GTR2, etc.) is how on Earth can you not feel a thing through the wheel when the visual/graphical engine is vibrating the car like a sawtooth? Clearly one aspect of the sim thinks the car is driving over a surface (curb typically) that is causing the whole car and driver's head to vibrate severely, yet the FFB thinks you are driving on a glass-smooth surface.

Can't agree. Sorry to say but it sounds like much of what you ask for, like many others is the canned ISI vibrations.

I don't feel these IRL.

I have spent a LOT of time driving on uneven surfaces in different cars from old Minis to Subarus with just my fingertips on the steering wheel to see what comes through. There are many unsurfaced roads here in NZ to help with this.

Yes you feel vibrations through your body, NOT the wheeel.

LFS is so right in what it does. The fact that RBR and NKP do forces the same way and that there is an rTractor mod to change forces the same way says something.

Quote from Woz :

Can't agree. Sorry to say but it sounds like much of what you ask for, like many others is the canned ISI vibrations.

I don't feel these IRL.

I have spent a LOT of time driving on uneven surfaces in different cars from old Minis to Subarus with just my fingertips on the steering wheel to see what comes through. There are many unsurfaced roads here in NZ to help with this.

Yes you feel vibrations through your body, NOT the wheeel.

LFS is so right in what it does. The fact that RBR does forces the same way and that there is an rTractor mod to change forces the same way says something.

As soon as I have FFB seat, I'll agree with you. The forces in ISI are not canned and until there is a FFB seat, you need to feel them through the FFB wheel as a proxy. Yes, it's fake, but so is every other aspect of a racing sim on a computer. I don't feel wind, either, so should the LFS devs get rid of the wind sound effect?

Quote from Marc Collins :

As soon as I have FFB seat, I'll agree with you. The forces in ISI are not canned and until there is a FFB seat, you need to feel them through the FFB wheel as a proxy. Yes, it's fake, but so is every other aspect of a racing sim on a computer. I don't feel wind, either, so should the LFS devs get rid of the wind sound effect?

But that wind is based to real world physics and it is calculated based on facts instead of what programmer might feel being kewl, that separates simulation from game, don't you think?