I've had this one on my mind for a while. I've been scared of what will happen if I let this topic loose on the forums.
firstly, I am not Against all the hard work all the programmers and the devs have put into this area of LFS.
this is more of a talk about the good and bad elements of the insim system.

againced?

Against

Pretty pointless thread.

Insim only restricts you on servers that use it. If you don't want to be restricted in that way, don't use those servers. Join a league!

It's there so that the userbase can create workarounds for features that are not yet/will not be implemented in the sim. Simple as that.

Obviously you mean the cruising servers?

What if not all people want to race?

Imho, it is all down to the fact that there aren't so many people that have lots of time and can code the stuff for insim. CTRA is doing great along with all others who use insim but it isn't said anywhere that a server must be a racing server. If you want to cruise, you join cruise server, if you want to race, you join racing server. If you like hours and hours of hotlapping alone online you join on empty server and drive the FO8 or RAC.

It is really that simple. Insim doesn't restrict the way we use LFS - it just broadens the experience.

Not that I need or drive on cruise&cops'n'robbers&squirrel_mod servers at all. I don't need them just like I don't need drift or FOX servers but other want them and it is really what people want and what is possible.

there are tons of server witout insim...so i dont see ur point.
if u dont like it, simply avoid those servers.
insim however, has a lot of possibilities and makes it possible to "mod" the game somewhat.
imo a nice thing.
but as always - everyone has a different taste.

InSim i have to admit is a good idea but it has to be used in the right ways in order to get good results.....

I think deep down zach is really just against cruise servers being full of 32 racers while all the "real" servers are empty. While this kinda gets to me too, I respect people's need to drive around pointlessly and be ordered around by twelve year olds in toy cop cars. Its a lifestyle, don't bash it.

u think ure funny, huh?
as expected flaming begins...

when u guys would get online on some server without insim it would fill up after some time, instead of moaning around here.

Quote from flymike91 :

I think deep down zach is really just against cruise servers being full of 32 racers while all the "real" servers are empty.

...and yet his sig is littered with drift paraphernalia...

InSim is awesome. Its like metamod for Half-Life/Counter-Strike.

Metamod for Half life allowed custom server .dll files to be used, so all sorts of fancy mods could be made. Some of those mods were used for 'mucking around' type stuff, similar to cruise servers with LFS. But some mods were really useful for competitive Counter-Strike matches, a ready function, keeping track of who is winning the match, warmup time, automatically switching teams at half time, taking end game screenshots and saving them on the server.... etc.

InSim has 'mucking around' type stuff like cruise servers too, but its also really useful for proper racing. eg. LFS lapper is a nice application. All sorts of things could be made in the future: automatically update and upload results of a league race to the website; automatically keep track of results and points in a league; have a server admin hierarchy system where different people have limited admin rights; setup a server for a league race or public settings with one button. Heaps of useful server mods could be made...

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

what happened to the days of LFS where it was a "best skills and setup wins?"

How on EARTH does InSim stop that?!

Your getting "Cruise Server" and "InSim" mixed up again - look at the CTRA servers - if it wasn't for the InSim system none of that would work.

Oh and ftr - it's always about the best skills - setups really don't make that much difference

Quote from Jakg :

Oh and ftr - it's always about the best skills - setups really don't make that much difference

If standard of skill is high, it does, trusteh me.

Quote from Blackout :

If standard of skill is high, it does, trusteh me.

It does even without any skills

Quote from Blackout :

If standard of skill is high, it does, trusteh me.

I tried going for a WR once, got close (in fact i set one 0.16 under the WR, but when i came to upload it i got a suprise), and then some fast bastard set a time 0.4 secs under what i could ever seem to get (although if i could just hook up the 2 best splits i had then i'd of been 0.2 secs off) - i was fairly on the limit. It was SO1R / FO8, where you need as much grip as humanly possible (ie Turn 1 = ~118 mph!), and yet even there using Race_S i was only about 0.5 seconds off my previous times.

0.5 seconds is a big gain, but i'm willing to bet if i just handed you my setup you wouldn't magically set those times - you might have a car with a lot of grip, but you also need the skill (or in my case practice ) to be able to use that grip.

Quote from Jakg :

I tried going for a WR once, got close (in fact i set one 0.16 under the WR, but when i came to upload it i got a suprise), and then some fast bastard set a time 0.4 secs under what i could ever seem to get (although if i could just hook up the 2 best splits i had then i'd of been 0.2 secs off) - i was fairly on the limit. It was SO1R / FO8, where you need as much grip as humanly possible (ie Turn 1 = ~118 mph!), and yet even there using Race_S i was only about 0.5 seconds off my previous times.

0.5 seconds is a big gain, but i'm willing to bet if i just handed you my setup you wouldn't magically set those times - you might have a car with a lot of grip, but you also need the skill (or in my case practice ) to be able to use that grip.

Which all proves that setup matters, but yes, you aren't going anywhere if you can't drive. But I think that is rather obvious note.

What i'm saying is that people put far too much faith in the setup - it might make 0.5 seconds difference, but you should still be able to (physically, at least) get within 1 seconds of the WR using Race_S, it's all just down to your skill.

Quote from Jakg :

What i'm saying is that people put far too much faith in the setup - it might make 0.5 seconds difference, but you should still be able to (physically, at least) get within 1 seconds of the WR using Race_S, it's all just down to your skill.

Jack Green, spammer (in a good way) and a part time driving god?

That post made me seem a little more arrogant than it sounded in my head.

I was reluctant to post which combo this was at, as i know expect 50 people to jump on it and knock several seconds off the time...

I can only say that InSim is a GOOD thing.
What people choose to do with it is a completely different subject.
Personally I run 3 separate InSim apps on my servers, and would be lost without them.
Cruise servers are OK for people that like to drive slowly round and round in circles, not for me, but then...each to his own!
As for 'restricting' cars..I have a great little InSim Mod made for me by DarkTimes that doesn't restrict cars...but controllers! That is to say, to race on one of my servers you MUST be using a manual gear shifter with clutch, and NO driving aids are permitted at all...if that isn't good for real hardcore racing, what is? OK..you may argue that this is just for the G25 owners...look again, the G25 wasn't the first manual gear shift + clutch option!
As Jakg so rightly mentioned, without InSim there would not be a CTRA in the format it is today..again, this promotes real racing.
Not flaming, just pointing out that InSim is not bad.

Insim allows us to have more variety and choice CTRA being the obvious example but one of the great new functions is being able to restrict the cars producing multiple classes and we are in the early days of experimentation, such events as MOE and the new UF Owners Club Baby-R series are only now just starting to experiment with this function and given a little more time and development will IMO produce some of the best online racing to be found on the net.

Then there is the CTRA User interface which I'll leave to someone else

So all I can see is more + than -

Actually can someone close this thread. I'm thinking posting this was a big mistake.

Quote from Bladerunner :

As for 'restricting' cars..I have a great little InSim Mod made for me by DarkTimes that doesn't restrict cars...but controllers! That is to say, to race on one of my servers you MUST be using a manual gear shifter with clutch, and NO driving aids are permitted at all...if that isn't good for real hardcore racing, what is? OK..you may argue that this is just for the G25 owners...look again, the G25 wasn't the first manual gear shift + clutch option!

I wish this was a little more common. I've actually stopped using my shifter for most races just because it isn't as competitive online when you can just fly through the gears with the paddles. It isn't exactly practical though, because not everyone has a clutch pedal and shifter and you'd be excluding a lot of drivers

lol nah don't worry Zoomy a valid Topic as with all things it's what you do with it that counts

Quote from CELTIC100 :

lol nah don't worry Zoomy a valid Topic as with all things it's what you do with it that counts

Yeah, not really a sporting move to ask a thread be deleted when it doesn't go your way.