I would mod. Firstly a mud arena, and secondly a new oval or two, and finaly a new 'car park' with road markings on the objects list. None of thats for me, I just think they are missing from the game.

Then a few new fantasy tracks, focusing on the short to medium length circuits and configs that I feel give the best racing, because i've raced everywhere LFS has to offer - and I want more

EDIT: And i'd use hairpins more than chicanes! *glares at Eric*

I think an ingame DL'er could work well (just look at CS/DOD/<insert steam game here>) as long as the files being DLed were bzipped to conserve on DL space, and still had a size limit like the example does too.

Quote from dude56 :

Well, LFSW could enforce a size limit, or force a total mod size on a server (so that you wouldn't be forced to download tons of crap)

Or it could even point you to a list of mirrors to download it from while in-game, much the same way the ingame updater works.

Think COD2 uses a system that lets you as a client download maps from the server. Maybe in LFS it could be done via LFSW. This could be a way of distributing additional tracks or even cars. However i am for the quality control and think even the current tracks and cars are only used by CTRA and leagues now so...use what we have first.

Quote from danowat :

I've said it before, and I'll say it again........

Modding, by modding I mean new cars and track, will dilute an already diluted online racing community within LFS.

People DO NOT use everything we have in LFS to it's full potential as it is, and all adding third party content will do is water down the online experiance.

I TRUELY hope that LFS is NEVER opened up to public modding.

However, all that said, I DO believe that Scawen should "employ" some of the talented modders around to assist in the LFS development.

I understand your fears that modding will dilute the community but i have noticed many regulars have stopped using LFS yet they pop back in from time to time. They have been replaced by new users so we still have full servers but the numbers online has not changed greatly.

There are 2 sections of LFS, the racers and the (modders) programmers. The highest number in the LFSWorld graph is 1580 so its still very small mainly as it only attracts the racers and a few programmers.

At the moment the racers part works well but once you have tried all the combo's that interest you LFS can get a bit boring so racers mod thier skins and make what little changes they can.

The modders make changes using insim to add some variaty and when something new comes out the forum goes mad for it.

To me the only way forward is controlled mods.

1) Using some standard format allow modders to make tracks and cars
2) Have a approve panel or use this forum, where people vote on which car or track should be added from those put forward.
3) Once approved the Devs add it to the game using something like the way we use layouts files.

That way its controlled, the crap is weeded out, and it will become very active and will attract more players and more modders.

That way new content will be coming all the time and it will give new life to this fantastic game.

Im pretty experienced in most FPS engines , and would love to build "North City" style track.

/off topic slightly
But i will echo danowats feelings here , LFS has remained Pure mostly so far , we dont have a big community and opening LFS up at this point would destroy it, yes people are bored, but look athow it is at the moment.
Refresh the server list ... I have nothing personal against some of the servers
but imagine more cruise style servers more banger servers, servers with half completed projects (LFS is one but thats not the point here)
LFS racer community isnt big enough to cope imo.

LFS has plenty of Cars, what it needs are tracks, and above that more racers, not users

/back on topic
I can and would mod if opened up but i hope thats not for a long time at least till S3 Final has been out for some time. and by then, who knows what the game will contain

I personally think that the reason why people are asking for mods is that they want to drive their favorite car around a track, to try what it's like. Racing online with their car might not be the priority. In order to put some order into this, there should be a server-side option wether to allow mods or original content only, so that you don't see noobs winning races in batmobiles. I would like to drive a batmobile around Blackwood, but I'm sure that it would be annoying for others, so I'd drive it offline only. What I'm trying to say is that there should be a server-side option to allow (or not) mods.

Quality of the models is another thing that bothers many people here. A rating system based on comunity members' votes would be helpful, although a board of uber-members would be even more. But that's work for no money. Speaking of money, the DEVs could think about releasing a LFS S2m version, that would (for a small fee, if necessary) allow using mods, so that the effort comes with a reward. And as we all know, when something is about money, the competition grows and so does the quality.

Concerning the rules, there obviously have to be some, to prevent chaos. The size and complexity of the model would be predefined by certain boundaries (uncluding wireframe, textures, sounds for cars etc.).

The last thing I want to say that all this talking and flaming about mods is in my point of view absolutely useless until we stop talking BS and show the DEVs that the LFS COMMUNITY IS READY to accept mods in a mature and intelligent way. I don't want to sound like a leader of a revolution, neither I want to be one, but I suggest that we choose the most responsible members of this fine community. They must be respected by us and also by their superiors - The DEVs. After being chosen, they will create rules originating from the DEVs' specifications. They will act as the judge, the jury and the executionner ( :smash3d: ). Models will be rated by the community and the best ones will be forwarded to the board, judged and possibly implemented.

Phew, I think I am overcomplicating things, so I better shut up and see what happens..... *ducks and covers his ears*

Quote from GT VIRUS :

For example; I currently make tracks for iDT simulations. If eric said to me 'make a track to put into Live For Speed' i would be straight onto it.

is there an old hockenheim in your plans for iDT (btw. i love the champcar mod)?

If I had some tools I maybe would try to learn them so I could make something, so yes, I would tried, problem is that I`m a n00b to everything I try, so the results had to be for my own use, not public -.-

I love an offtopic thread.

A couple of people are able to mod, thats great to see

I like people who are willing to step up and learn as well

Quote from dude56 :

Well, LFSW could enforce a size limit, or force a total mod size on a server (so that you wouldn't be forced to download tons of crap)

Or it could even point you to a list of mirrors to download it from while in-game, much the same way the ingame updater works.

Enforcing a size limit won't work (IMO). The last track I built was based on a park as a mower track. Due to this being pretty much a large open grass area with a few swings, tennis courts and some bright orange plastic fencing to mark out the track area, trees and some milk crates as pit area markers etc, there wasn't much to add to the scenery, so the download is quite light. However, the first track I did was much more involved than that, including grandstands and such objects that naturally use a fair bit higher poly count.. and then modelling a lower-poly version of those objects for LODs. This all starts to add up... so enforcing a limit won't really work else we'll just end up with crap low-poly objects for everything.

While the ingame auto-updater works and works just fine for the job it's required to do, it's a "one off" function. Having to do this 5 or 6 times a night perhaps if cars / tracks changed, I for one would start getting pretty pissed off.. I have better things to do than sit at a "joining track in a minute.. grabbing yet more data first. As you're on dialup, why not make a coffee.. and may aswell cook a roast while I continue, hell.. have a week in the Bahamas.. you'll be back before I finish." message or similar. At least with manual methods, you'd be able to grab the mods you want overnight or in the background and continue with something more important than looking at a static message saying the download is still continuing.

In general, again IMO, 'enforcement' breaks more than it fixes.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from GT VIRUS :

What i want to know is, if it came out tomorrow that eric will accept some submitted material: who WOULD step up and start modeling fantasy stuff for LFS?

Me.

For those of who were/are involved in rF, I was one of the founders of the ProtoGP project. The Jaguar that was displayed with the initial announcement was my design, as was the Fenix GT car. Both since scrapped and both I am ashamed of when I look at them now. (Especially in light of what Brandyn is working on behind the scenes ) I've since left the project, though. rF just isn't good enough to keep my attention. I want to build top quality stuff for LFS, and nothing else.

I've already got a lot of ideas for LFS; Classic LFS with 60s-70s models of most of the current cars, a '200x' mod with updated models of all cars, some prototypes to name a few of the vehicles. For tracks, I want to create two Canadian venues; a north american style street circuit on a beautiful waterfront, and a roadcourse set in the mountains of British Columbia. I also had an idea to create a Targa style road rally in the area where I live; several stages already in mind

I'd be up for it. I've been modelling for various games for years, although I've not dabbled with cars much. You can see a project I'm making for render in the Renders section.

Textures however, are my bad point. I can do 3D, but I can't do 2D

I have done some formal training in 3DS Max and Maya which I undertook at a special college that concentrates mainly on the gaming and 3D animation industries. Although the stuff I learned was focused on character animation I gained some handy skills in modeling including advanced subdivision surface modeling which is a really useful area to pursue for any aspiring 3D artist IMO. Along the way I experimented with lofting paths and working with editable splines as well as using contour information to create realistic terrains. These latter techniques are all very useful for track building/ level design. Additionally I have over a decade of experience using commercial graphics software. Along with my uncompromising work ethic for high quality, I'm confident that I could produce or contribute to some very high quality mods.

Still, I have no desire to mod LFS.

Quote from Gunn :

Still, I have no desire to mod LFS.

a comment stated purely out of principle, not actual desire

Quote from mattlikespeoples :

a comment stated purely out of principle, not actual desire

WTF would you know about my principles or desires? Nada.

Is it somehow unpopular to have a different opinion than the developers ?? Maybe if the developers had said that modding would be available after release of S2 it would not be so unpopular to say they are pro modding ??

They have said there is a possibility after S3 final, so no, I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Cut that talk about will modding be threat or not, thread was not made for that, you can read do you, so let's even try to stay on topic here, we have talked those other aspects all over so many times that there is holes worn to subject

Certainly I would create some content, graphics is not that however, I'm much better in other areas.

What I'm interested in is street cars, handling and damage, creating feel that you are not in tank but in fragile car, stuff like that, finding ways to create more immersion and so on.

Also I have slight interest of testing systems for problems and getting ideas how to improve and make systems not to fail or misused, if that would be called modding at all as I can't really do coding part, but that harder part is not so difficult for me, planning and such.

This Sp!tfire's thread is by far the most intelligent one in this whole thread. You have my support. Anyway, I would like to give that Skoda mod a test drive as my dad owns a Skoda, so I'd like to compare them :P

Quote from Sp!tfire :

Interesting thread!

Gotta love those modding threads, in a good way.
I have some experience with the LFS VOB format, I know how to work with it for around 40%.
I'm a 3d modeller, and I do UVW'ing and texturing.

Somebody I know, has wrote a whole VOB editor for Live For Speed, it's not done yet, but he can get new car models in live for speed, with textures, also the glass, etc.
For so far I know all he has to fix left are the brakelights of the car, and make the editor more user-friendly.

I'm afraid he won't release the editor to the public, because of the noobs who wouldn't know how it works, lots of crappy mods will be made, and ofc. because the devs wouldn't like it.

He has done a Skoda for Live For Speed, and will try doing a Mazda RX-7 for me soon, I just sent him the model + textures.

And about the auto downloader, DONT do it, IF the developers will ever let us mod the game, let them have to approve the downloads first, and then put them on LFSWorld, or something.
I can make a 10 kb car that will meet the filesize limit, but will be annoying as ...
Imagine a huge dead-textured box driving around the map..

All I can think of for now, just let the people who can actually make professional mods mod, just for the community, but if all noobs will start modding it will end up so horrible.

- Sp!tfire

Seen the vid on Youtube. Its a classic skoda right?

Why did the topic made yesteday vanish? WTF and anti-FTW. Removed just because it had links to youtube vids that included these mods such as the Skoda?

Are these the videos in question?

http://www.youtube.com/user/davescz

Looks great, but as you said, long way to go? It's only modelling at this stage I guess?

What about wheel base and physics etc.

It's not like doing the physics are hard, seeing LFS actually has an engine, not rFactor which is as real as a barbie.

My daughter's Barbie is very real.

Al, is there anything you wish to share with the class, or do you want to keep the whole playing with dolls a secret?