The online racing simulator
Method of Racing Discussion
Hey a few suggestions have come up about the method of racing here are some options

1.
20mins Qualifying
1Hour race

2.
Endurance Rounds 1 hour Extra points
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
South City Town - MRT

Sprint Rounds
20mins qualifying, qualifying position, reverse grid, ??? (not sure), 10laps each
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG

3.
20mins qualifying, qualifying position, reverse grid, ??? (not sure), 10 laps each
3.
Sounds about the best I think
Sprint rounds really don't prove much, because if a driver can last 10 laps or so, there aren't many other factors that come into play during a sprint race.

You should mix up the calendar with several sprint race sessions, and several 1-hour race sessions. Basically make each race-day about an 1h 30mins each.

So you could have the calendar split up with different methods of racing like so:

Month 1:
  • 4-6 Sprint Rounds (have two sprint sessions per month, 2-3 sprints each meet)
  • 20mins qualifying, qualifying position, reverse grid, ??? (not sure), 10laps each (or something that lasts 15-30 mins)
  • Pick your car/track combo for each, I don't know what you'd want.
  • 1 Endurance Round for extra points (at the end of the month, good idea for extra points, encourages teams to finish)
  • 20mins qualifying, qualifying position, one long race
  • Pick your car/track combo for each, I don't know what you'd want. At least make sure the cars are best for endurance racing.
Month 2, 3, 4....?:

Repeat the same as Month 1.... and so on for more months.

------------------------------

Doing this would give you some good options between the sprint racing and the endurance racing. If you REALLY wanted it to make it a longer race, having a 2 hour race would be better, but I guess not many have that much time. But you should encourage driver swaps for the endurance racing... it's a must. That would mean that in the Endurance races, would you have only 1 car per team, and then driver swaps? You could have 2 cars/team and have the team use 4 drivers I guess (2 drivers per car). Would be really interesting, because with only 2 meetings for several sprint races, teams would need to prepare for the endurance race at the END of the month. (Basically make the sprint racing for the first two weeks of the month, then the endurance race for the last week (just a 2 week break/preparation period))

The Sprint racing should be quick combos, and definitely use reverse grid for the final sprint round of the meeting.

So if your series last for something like 4 months, that would mean you'd have 16 sprint races (8 sprint meetings), and 4 endurance races. That is if you do only 2 sprint races per meeting. If you did 3 short sprint races a meeting, you'd have 24 sprint races (8 sprint meetings), and 4 endurance races. If you do 3 short sprint races per meeting (more desirable), then make it so that if you get 1st place in all 3 races, those cumulative points are not as many points as a 1st place in the endurance race. Well I wont go into the points system, that is something to figure out later. But for now, this is my idea for the race calendar.
Yeah, thats kinda what i was suggesting a couple of days ago, similar setup to the V8 supercar series, where they dont stick to 1 fixed race meeting style but mix it up a little.

The V8 Series is largely made up of 3-race rounds, with a couple of 2-race rounds and a pair of 1-race rounds.
This is something I am considering speaking to the guys in our team about possibly organising, Saloon car racing with mixed style weekends, a series that doesnt have completely different cars each round but isnt the same fixed cars week in week out either. (ie TBO / XFR+UFR / GTR)


I definately agree with the idea of keeping everything planned round a 90min window, personally i dont mind how long it goes on for but plenty do.

Keep qualifying to something reasonable, it shouldnt be 1/3 of the whole event. 20min sounds fine.

DEFINATELY no 'X laps' plastered onto all rounds, if a lap takes X seconds then figure out how many laps you'd do in however long races should be and take it to the nearest 5th lap. I can understand fixed minute races (converted to laps for the races) but not a fixed number of laps like last season's 50 laps, we had round 1 lasting about 45min and then round 6? (GTRs) which was just over 2hrs and its too hard to find enough suitable combos for the rule without ruling out the longer tracks at Aston, Kyoto and Fern Bay.

Any reversed grid racing needs to have either a good enough reason to push for the best finishes possible in previous races to avoid the possibility of people intentionally driving to start on pole for the next race, whether its less points or only reversing the first X finishers. The idea of reversed grids is to spice things up a bit, it shouldnt be there for people to decide they're not going to get the result they thought they could get and have a better chance if they start on pole/at the front for the next race. It should improve the slower drivers chances of finishing better, but not significantly IMO, just give them a head start and not be something people decide to abuse because they'll score better by doing it.

Dont agree on sprint race rounds being worth less than endurance rounds, they take the same length of time to practice for, same time and effort to acheive, and should have same points for doing so.
If single sprint races each placing is spread by say 10pts then endurance should be 30 (if theres 3 sprints), meaning that winning is worth 30pts more than coming 2nd, thats the real difference, not the amount of points you get, but the amount you get more/less than others. IMO every round is worth the same, it keeps the value of things equal.
2 seems best to me
I'm with #1 and 2.

Sprint races are a bit waste of time IMO - especially with reversed grid.
Quote from r4ptor :I'm with #1 and 2.

Sprint races are a bit waste of time IMO - especially with reversed grid.

Unless im very much mistaken (which is quite possible, the aim of this thread isnt really that clear nor are what the options actually intend) #2 is part endurance, part sprint race (thus reversed grid racing included).

For what its worth, 'sprint races' if there were 3 races in the 60-70min 'racing window' of the event would be 20min a peice.
IMO for sprint racing its stupid using predominantly long tracks tracks and fixed 10 laps, I'd have thought short/medium sided tracks so 15+ laps could be done (small tracks for slower cars, medium for mid-pace, leaving the 'epic' cars to the endurance racing on the big tracks with the long straights so you can utilise the full range of tracks available in LFS) would have given plenty of action, and considering the average race (IRL and virtual) seems to be decided after half a dozen laps we'd see more close racing than watching 20+ cars spread out over 60min.

For the record im not a huge fan of reversed grid, in the real world maybe, and with a grid you can trust without having doubts it could be very exciting, but it does appear to be very tricky to find the balance between true entertainment and 'circus standard entertainment'. The intention is to create closely fought scraps and drivers coming through the pack, the sad reality seems to be partial chaos with cars going off in all directions more often than not. I dont object to racing in them, theres the romantic hope of making perfect moves and coming through the pack to take the win, but typically things often fall short of that (FAR short of that if im at the wheel ) and its quite often frustraiting when you've had a decent race and the reverse race turns a little 'mickey mouse' under the name of entertaining racing instead of possibly another good clean race (maybe duller, but probably more people satisfied with the result)


Each to his own though, single races was the basis of how the series was formed and that hasnt done it any harm has it
#8 - Davo
20mins qualifying and 3 races = qualifying position, reverse grid, reverse grid. Rounds 20 minutes each, however many laps that equals on that combo. So you get1 hour of racing all up plus qualifying.

Then as tweak suggested have an endurance race every few rounds. Perhaps at first only 1 hour long without driver swaps and make the final race 4 hours long and an enduro with driver swaps.
Quote from PaulC2K :#2 is part endurance, part sprint race (thus reversed grid racing included).

Bugger... I was too fast to notice that :P

Quote from PaulC2K :
For the record im not a huge fan of reversed grid, in the real world maybe, and with a grid you can trust without having doubts it could be very exciting, but it does appear to be very tricky to find the balance between true entertainment and 'circus standard entertainment'.

Agreed, however I mostly don't like reversed grid in sprints because a driver doesn't always have to be much faster - maybe he is even a bit slower, but can still defend his position. It could work with longer races, but with only 10 laps, its imo too short to really mean anything.

And yes, slower drivers ahead of you will make it even more problematic to go for a win with such a low amount of laps.
same here, but apparently that easily gets interpreted into 'whine whine whine, i cant pass backmarkers, whine whine, make it easy and boring please' to many people.
One thing is also a possibility, like the Unity team from Denmark does it, one sprint race and reverse grid in the main race. That is good fun, i race there a lot.
They have a superpole , you have 2. laps, one out lap and then qualy lap,F1 style a few years ago, but that takes too long for a race with many drivers.

just a thought.
A superpole would be cool, only give a chance for 1 flying lap in qualifying. You wouldn't need to do them one by one, just make it a 20 minute session, and each driver/team chooses when they can go out judging by how clear the track is so they can get a good lap . Would be cool to see more strategy rather than this free-for-all style most leagues have.

I agree also on making sprint races a bit longer.... something that at least lasts 20-25 mins. Then have a 5 minute break period, and do another sprint race with reversed grid. Reversed grid is fine if you develop the points structure in a way that the majority get their fair share of points. Points should be given from 1st through 10th. People purposely wanting to retire so they can start in front for a reversed grid is just a bad idea if you think about it... you'd lose more opportunities for points if you did that. If the person is the fastest overall and they start on the front row due to reversed grid dnf, then the amount of points for 1st place shouldn't be greater than a decent combined points result from the 2 races.

Say the 1st-10th points are like this for each sprint race: (12 10 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1) (just an example). If you got 4th place in the 1st race (7pts), and 5th place in the 2nd race (6), that'd be 13 points. The issue is, how big the grids will be, and how hard it would be to fight up to the front in a sprint race. Usually in 10 laps or so, it isn't always that hard if you are on the pace, so my example here is something that could really happen. If you had 1st place (12pts) and then fought back and got a podium finish, you'd get a very good sum of points. If someone just DNFs and opts to try and win 1st place in the 2nd round, that is just too much to risk, and hardly that much of a gain.

But I do agree that it could be missused. If the points were even consistent of just 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, then the whole 'dnf strategy' would be useless. You could have those points, but give bonus points for Laps Led, Fastest Lap, and Highest Climber (specifically FOR reversed grid starts so you can try to earn more). If you had a highest climber bonus point (say 2pts), that would encourage everyone to be given a good reward for a those that start in the back of the grid, rather than the people that just opt to start in front due to a DNF (The penalty would be greater for them).

Anyways, enough about points. I still stand by my idea that you should do several sprint races a month, and do one endurance race at the end of that month also.

Teams aren't truly shown in their variety of skill with a few measly sprint races, you need to do some endurance races to show who is prepared. And no Paul, an endurance race takes FAR MORE preparation for the setup then a sprint race setup. If the endurance race takes into account that the tires should wear and you need to make a pitstop before they blow, then setup development takes a lot longer... because you have to drive the distance each time you test. So a 2 week intermission before the endurance race would be nice for all the teams I think.

Hope the decisions for the next season are good, I'd be interested to see what the final decision is.
They also have the potential to be extremely quiet, uneventful races where for the most part theres no pressure or closely fought racing.
Sprint races are short tight racing, no time to wait and follow for a dozen laps incase something happens, no hoping that strategies come into play.

They're both perfect examples of top level racing series, one relies more on consistancy and planning, the other relies on instinct and being able to make a move when you need to while side-by-side with close pack racing. Who's to say which is the harder and should be rewarded most. The V8 Supercar series is the only series i know of which runs mixed format racing, they have 1 point system, and thats divided by the number of races held that round, so a wins worth 360/180/120 or something like that. I cant think of an example of a series IRL that has any kind of bonus points round/s at any stage, but then most series are pretty sterile with flat formats.
I love the super pole idea - tried it myself a year ago in my very first league participation (Summer Cup me thinks) and missed it ever since.

It's way more thrilling asdrivers have to show what they can do here and now - but I don't think going out whenever you want is the best idea - it has to be organized, otherwise league organizers would/could have to watch replays to make sure everyone qualified as they should - something like letting in drivers with 20 secs of interval, until first car gets close to beginning the actual lap would be better - and then repeat it again ones the final driver crosses the line etc.
Ok, hows this sound

10-15mins Qualifying session. then top 10 shootout

Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from one sprint race
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
South City Town - MRT

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG

Quote from Arrow. :Ok, hows this sound

10-15mins Qualifying session. then top 10 shootout

Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from one sprint race
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
South City Town - MRT

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG


HELLA YEAS!!!!!!!!
thats haulin josh
Why the hell would you want to do an endurance race with the MRT!?! Its a autox car people tollerated on tracks because it was the only single seater back in S1.

Im not a huge fan of wasting time qualifying instead of racing, and in my mind anything that you can do in 10-15min to get a top 10 is good enough to decide the race start order, instead you have the likes of a shootout which adds about 10min more onto it all. I'd rather see that time used racing, where things actually count for something instead of having 2/3 of the grid sitting round waiting for others to do 2 laps


Also, why run sprint races and Endurances with the same configs?
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR
They're being run twice? Sprint and Endurance... why?? (WE1R is far better than WE1, WE1R FTW!!)
Sorry it should be this
10-15mins Qualifying session. then top 10 shootout


Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from one sprint race
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG
#19 - Kaw
Quote from Arrow. :Sorry it should be this
10-15mins Qualifying session. then top 10 shootout

Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from one sprint race
Fern Bay Black - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG

How come theres no Blackwood ?
No Blackwood or South City

AS x2
KY x3
FE x2
WE x1

Love Ky Long, but why is it there twice, and both times with the crappy FO8?

Wheres the South City & Blackwood configs, BL1 is the home of LFS, not having that track in there is just plain wrong.

I'd also question GTRs @ FE Black, the GTR round should be somewhere like Kyoto Long or Blackwood, a true racing track not somewhere like Fern Bay which is a clubmans track, IRL it wouldnt get any sort of prestigious event, it'd get the run of the mill stuff, the TBO, LRF, XFG/XRG type stuff.

The cars need to fit in with the tracks they're racing on IMO.
whoops again

Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from
one sprint race
Blackwood GP - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
South City Town - MRT
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG
Quote from Arrow. :whoops again

Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from
one sprint race
Blackwood GP - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
South City Town - MRT
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG

Looking better! Much better!
I think one or two hours for the endurance.
Quote from Arrow. :whoops again

Endurance Rounds 1-4(???) hour
double points from
one sprint race
Blackwood GP - GTR
Kyoto Ring Long - F08
Westhill International - XFR/UFR

Sprint Rounds
Race 1: Qualifying position, Race 2 Reverse grid
South City Town - MRT
Aston North - TBO
Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX
Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF
Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG

much better.
i have a boner.
TBH, i dont think that the endurance race should be up to 4 hours, i would think maybe max 2 hours because racing for too long - you can get fairly bored of it but all the other ones are good
What do you all think of the top 10 shootout suggestion?

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG