Quote from ellis_dee :

I am skeptical about forced playing options, I like it better, if the fastest guys gives away his set to anybody just to see he is still the fastest. Good sportmanship behavior and not making ppl drives setups they dont like.

imho it would be best if there would be an option to automatically allow everyone to download the setup from you .. it really sucks if after every race 10 people are asking the leader for his setup.. was some kind of this was already suggested/discussed ?

(it might also be helpful if there would be some 'credit' section included in each setup .. where the author can write who he is, when he has done it, for which tracks, link to his homepage, maybe a little hint on how to handle it .. )

Quote from tehkahless :

imho it would be best if there would be an option to automatically allow everyone to download the setup from you .. it really sucks if after every race 10 people are asking the leader for his setup.. was some kind of this was already suggested/discussed ?

i'd support that 1000%, hate it when people are asking while your racing, better things to concintrate on.

I gave a no, for the same reason that sinbad mentioned: People's equipment varies too much. A setup that works excellent with a wheel may alienate the KB and Mouse drivers. Someone driving with a DFP in 900deg mode may find a car with 20deg steering lock entirely undriveable.

These are things you don't want to find out in lap 1.

The things that most racers tweak for extra performance that are usually restricted in most race leagues are already unmodifiable (eg. intakes, exhaust manifolds, turbos/superchargers, body aero adjustments, etc, etc, etc).

The only things I would find acceptable to restrict at this time would be:
- Tyre Types
- Passengers (require co-driver for rallycross)

There's really not a whole lot that we can change that would disqualify you from a league race... we've got it pretty good, all same-type cars have the exact same base specs and the exact same body, there's not a whole lot else that you could realistically restrict, aside from possibly some suspension values. Restricting 'Ride Height' doesn't cut it, because 'Ride Height' isn't a REAL value in real life, it's the sum of a bunch of different suspension adjustments made-easy in LFS, and restricting THAT would toss all your other good suspension values to the wind.

That's my 0.02

Quote from T.K.Jode :

- Passengers (require co-driver for rallycross)

Co-drivers and rallycross have nothing to do with eachother...

And I not really like this idea, the idea is well..eh, good, I had this kind of my own too. But we allready have identical cars, thats enough.

I voted NO and its 50-50 now

Quote from tehkahless :

imho it would be best if there would be an option to automatically allow everyone to download the setup from you .. it really sucks if after every race 10 people are asking the leader for his setup.. was some kind of this was already suggested/discussed ?

This could have problem with some people not wanting to share their setups (a team setup or something like that). This could be solved by making an option to allow other to download your set. If it is on, others could download your setup with a press of a button and if it is off, people would just get a note that this persons setup is not available.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I think it's a great idea. A lot of times you find that newbies think they're slow because of their setup, not because of their driving style. Knowing that everyone is on a level playing field might address that problem.

True, for people new to the game it can be very confusing to figure out what causes them to be slower. Knowing the setup is the same, you know where you have to concentrate on. What if you don't know you should use a high nose setup for the FO8? Trying to figure out why you can't keep up with the rest may take a long time

Nah, i like the option of being able to change setups. Some peopel might run faster setups that kill tires faster and others might run slightly slower, but their rires run longer. Things like that which make a race interesting and different.

Also, what about the drag strip.

I'd like to see a fixed-setup option, AND an option where everyone is allowed to change their setups completely from a fixed starting point. You see... Having the open setups we have now is anything BUT realistic. A1GP doesn't allow testing on a track that has a race planned, so does F1, and GP2, WTCC, DTCC, etc, etc. What all these setup gurus do is just that... Test for hours and hours on a track, to create the perfect setup for them to use during the race.

For realistically simulating a race weekend, setups should be fixed at the start of practice, and of course, the sliders should respond differently within their boundaries so setting up a car can only be done by driving, feeling, changing it, instead of simply entering the values for your favorite set. (also setting a limit to min-max values for different setup options would be nice)

I disagree that forcing setups would automatically provide closer racing.

I still voted yes because i think it can be a usefull and interesting option ('fun' if you will), but also because it could be an easy way to
have some good driver races. It might not be the best way to generate closer racing, but it's just perfect for bragging rights
between the 'best' drivers. I can see it now, all the best drivers invited to a fixed setup competition to find the ultimate driver, the
driver who is the fastest overall.

So, i voted Yes because:

1-Ideal for driver races. Driver skills, which includes adaptability, are directly in contest.

2-It could be 'fun' if you force everyone to use the same totally inadequate setup. Seeing who can actually finish the race.

3-It could also be usefull for beginners where a server could decide to force a proven setup for those not as skilled or experienced
with LFS. Sometimes, you just have to know the tricks and the LFS setups are no exception. This could be usefull in training servers.
In that regard, it could be a 'loose' setup (oversteers) to practice skid control one day, a tight setup (understeer) to practice turn
entry, speed and braking another day.

4-Another thing that could be interesting, additionally to the inverted start grid, what if the server forced the last race winner's setup
on everyone ? That way, no one could complain about setups being the only reason they win (i can hear some of you already...)

It's NOT a bad idea that's for sure. The only thing wrong about it is that it doesn't do what is insinuated in the poll, fixed setups
do not automatically provide closer racing imo. A driver that is quick to adapt will still have this advantage. A driver who has trouble
adapting and who just happens to be unable to drive with the forced setup is totally doomed. This is not what i call an ideal
environement to generate close racing. That said, when it comes down to 2 good drivers, or at least who are of equivalent skills,
having the same setup can provide closer racing. In fact, it often does. so it's not black or white.

I find it ironic to try and limit those who are better at adapting to different, eh, limits (constraints). Wouldn't it be easier and more
usefull in the long run to try and find ways to help out the slower guys instead. Seems we could put more work in finding a setup that
fits the vast majority of people. It would be a conservative setup, but hey, everyone will have the same. It a way, conservative
setups are better at providing close racing if they:

1- Make it easier for the beginner to find the limits
2- Make it harder for experienced driver to go over those limits

One very important factor in all this is the controller. I use an analog device myself and think that if you don't have a wheel, you
should at least use an analog device to really get a feel of LFS. Digital just isn't the same. That being said, if a setup can be
made to be good for both analog and digital controllers, then it's all for the better ! It could serve the community well by taking down
those walls people like to make when they don't want to understand people with different opinions and values. Analog vs Digital has
had it's share of heated debates Also, nothing is keeping a server from forcing a mouse or keyboard setup. hehe

I think a server option to restrict the amount of change and lock certain elements would be the most realistic option, in no club racing will you be able to change so much in your setup as in LFS.

Voted no... and wondering how the score can be almost 50/50? If you force different kind of drivers to use the same setup, then you'd have to make sure that they use the same control method too. DFP sets might be impossible to drive for keyboarders and vice versa.
Although I'm still a bit bugged out with the imbalances in the car classes, it's a great thing that there is no way to improve your car without your opponent being able to do the same. So I don't see the point of having forced sets.

I voted Yes because I'd rather lose to a better driver than to a super-setup that suits that driver more than me.

Quote from RacingSimFan :

I voted Yes because I'd rather lose to a better driver than to a super-setup that suits that driver more than me.

Then why don't you create yourself a setup that fits your driving style? It's not like the fast guys have some hidden options in the garage that'll magically make them drive seconds faster.
Maybe this "forced set" option would be good for, let's say, beginner's server (or driving school servers) where everyone would be on the same level skill-wise and there would be no distracting setup options. Just the pleasure of learning to race clean on a fairly stable setup.
I honestly think that having freedom to setup your car the way you like it is more fair for everyone.

EDIT: I think it's somewhat downplaying (sorry I can't recall the actual word) to say that the fast guys are fast because they got a "super-setup". I'd imagine it took months and months and months of practise to become a fast racer.

As an option.. why not?

I voted yes:

1) It's silly to have the so many setup options in cars like XF gti, RAC and FZ50. In real life you are not able to change gear ratios so specifically etc...

2) forced setups as serverside option - why? You still have a lot setups flying around and for some reason you wouldn't be able to change something...Someone has just decided that some odd setup is the setup that must be used, why this and why not that etc... (I can hear you tristan writing already )

3) The stupidest thing I've heard is to limit the setups of the purest racing cars, formulas and GTRs. These cars require excellence in both areas; driving and setup.

4) I'd just limit the setup options of the road cars (some things need to be left to fiddle around, like camber, toe-in and suspension hardness - but not in steps of 0.001). The racing cars could even have more things to setup. But even in these it's not realistic to be able set up some things in steps of 0,001.

5) limiting the setups would a) ruin hotlaps in LFSW b) need an incompatibilite patch c) bring very little new to the game and racing d) don't mean close racing


And a smiley to the end of this post to make it little more positive

Quote from Hyperactive :

I voted yes:
3) The stupidest thing I've heard is to limit the setups of the purest racing cars, formulas and GTRs. These cars require excellence in both areas; driving and setup.

That's a good point. The fact that you can easily reach and stay at the limit of the slower cars make small setup adjustments more
effective. On a car like the FO8, you have much more room for driver error. Virtually no one can do a perfect start without using a
very tall 1st gear or some other trick.

On the other hand, you can drive the FO8 full-throttle around the oval. Once downforce sets in, you are pretty close to the limit all
the time. This is where relatively minor setup differences seem to have a bigger impact on gameplay in LFS. When you know you'll
never catch up before the first lap is even over, there's no pleasure.

Last time i got totally outpaced, i asked for setups and the first i got did the job. I was perfectly able to hang with the others after
(seems my setup was scrubing off too much speed in turns..). That makes me think that forcing setups, sometimes, could be more
fun than it sounds. Forget about the 'forced', we need to find a word that doesn't sound so negative...

Quote from DodgeRacer :

I think you misunderstand the idea of making it a server option, not manditory in all servers, if its anything like NR2003 was it'll be 75% open setups anyway..

you are right, i've read it too fast


then i would mind if this option would be availible

Quote from Hyperactive :

2) forced setups as serverside option - why? You still have a lot setups flying around and for some reason you wouldn't be able to change something...Someone has just decided that some odd setup is the setup that must be used, why this and why not that etc... (I can hear you tristan writing already )

Me? I don't think setups should be limited entirely, but it would be good if certain things could be locked/limited on a server basis. If used carefully.

A last note for me, I can't seem to grasp why LFS would need such an option. Would it be meant as an advantage for beginners against more skilled drivers?
Personally, I would have been bored with LFS long time ago if there had been an "easy way" to fight for the podium positions. After two years of practise I'm still getting my ass kicked and, sure, sometimes it's a knock for an online ego. But that's what I signed for when I bought LFS - and I'm loving it!

Topic starter:

Quote :

I know it's not realistic but it could be fun!

Realism is fun! Join Banger Racing for close encounters and plenty of laughs!

Quote from spankmeyer :

A last note for me, I can't seem to grasp why LFS would need such an option. Would it be meant as an advantage for beginners against more skilled drivers?

Neither, it wouldn't work like that. If we just wanted close racing amongst drivers of all skill levels then we would be wanting a performance/laptime/races-won based weight penalty to be automatically enforced by the server.
The several reasons for this fixed-setup option would be: (imo)
A: To offer the chance to experience racing some of the road cars setup as road cars would be.
B: To offer racing-series' in which participants do not have to worry about developing a competitive setup and/or begging someone else for one.
C: To offer public fun-racing with the same "no worries about setup" characteristic.
D: To create setup regulations for leagues, examples: the use of only one tyre compound, or the compulsory use of the roof on the UF1000 or maybe to have a fixed and locked gearbox, with fixed ratios.
E: To have some more imaginative competitions with strange setups, or economy driving (if fuel load becomes part of the setup file anyway).


So to clear this up, it isn't about making it easier for anyone to win, if you're getting your arse kicked you still would with a fixed setup, and fixed-setup racing would never replace the current thing- lap-times are generally too important- but it could offer something different and enjoyable to a lot of people (all imo naturally).

I have to vote a resounding NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!
I drive Ks and it is impossible for me to drive the regular setups... Especially the rear wheel drive cars

Also bear in mind peoples driving styles differ, so tire wear rates will change from person to person, meaning you may need to pit more often if you need more sets of tires to the other racer, which would nto allow for close racing.

Quote from Stellios :

Also bear in mind peoples driving styles differ, so tire wear rates will change from person to person, meaning you may need to pit more often if you need more sets of tires to the other racer, which would nto allow for close racing.

Close racing is not neccessarily the point, although I actually doubt there would be any less of that with a fixed or limited setup option enabled. In fact, you state the point in your post. Everyone has the same car, with the same setup, if you do worse (spin more, kill your tyres etc) than someone else it's because they were better than you in that car with that setup. In its most basic form it's a lot like "arrive and drive" racing, you turn up, get in, and race the car underneath you. If you win then you were better than everyone else in the cars you were driving that day, and there's no other possible reason.

@Playlife: This is why if it were implemented it would be vital to allow adjustment of things like steering lock and brake force, people have different equipment calibrated in different ways, and the idea of limited setup instead of just fixed has been mentioned numerous times here.

I'm done arguing for this, I don't see any negatives if it's done right, so I'll just wait and see.

Like i said, it's not a BAD idea, it's the comment about "close racing" in the poll
choices that is the problem. Just remove all the comments and leave only a Yes
and a No. That way the poll will be more accurate and people can explain their
reasons in the thread, we are doing it anyways !!

Quote from sinbad :

@Playlife: This is why if it were implemented it would be vital to allow adjustment of things like steering lock and brake force, people have different equipment calibrated in different ways, and the idea of limited setup instead of just fixed has been mentioned numerous times here.

I'm done arguing for this, I don't see any negatives if it's done right, so I'll just wait and see.

I most specifically need to adjust 1st gear in a hideous amount and front and rear downforce radically