It would be very nice if wheels realy turn while cars are moving, instead of only changing the rotation position. I mean, when wheels turns too fast, they look like a swirl, and you can't see wheel's details. See Torcs if you don't understand.

Technically in the game the wheels are moving according to the car's speed, but without any special graphics effects implemented in the game, we really can't have that.

Most games have a texture for the wheel that comes in a number varieties from 'stationary' to a 'blurred' wheel.

The way LFS has done it now is still just fine, and you can see wheel details (not that the wheels are very detailed to begin with).... If you want to see the wheels details like in Torcs, then you haven't got some realism.

If a car is going 150mph and you look at the wheel, there is really no possible way you could make out the details of the wheel, it will be blurred, and also will have that spiral effect to make the wheel appear going backwards. LFS does this, minus the blurring.

In other games, you have something like 2D+3D rims, and the 2D part is esay to blur.But LFS uses total 3D rims, and AFAIK, it's more difficult, or GPU consuming to blur a 3D object.

Maybe others can explain it better XD.

BTW, I think wheels could take some ore details, the tyre surface could be more detailed, and some brand & tyre info in the profile (is this the right word?) would be great too

EDIT: Ooops, you were faster Tweaker BTW, that spiral effect is called dynamic alias

Quote from Tweaker :

If a car is going 150mph and you look at the wheel, there is really no possible way you could make out the details of the wheel, it will be blurred...

if you want to (and know how) you can easily look at any moved object at almost any given speed.
the trick is done like a projector, not staring at the same spot and magicaly wait for the picture to blend in your head, but to look fast over it and locking the object for a split second and then continuing the eye-movement over to something else. (like the stuttering used to transport film in a projector)
it's a nice way to tell if some light is "flickering" due to alternating current or not flickering due to direct current.

But in general you wouldn't see very much, maybee you can tell how many arms that spinning rim has but not very much more.

nevertheless it's more important to have some more serious issues fixed than the looks.
all the "Details" are important sure, i'm human and therefore driven by image & sound (thanks to evolution) but if the basis (physics) is setup properly and conclusive, then all these details will come from other people like all these nifty mods...

sincerly...

I know what you mean... but riding along side a car at slowspeed and blinking really fast, you can see a clear representation of the wheel... like a snapshot.

But at faster speeds (like on a highway), it is nearly impossible to blink and see a complete and clear image of the wheel's design, try it. Our eyes just cannot see steady things like that when moving very rapidly. And 150mph would make it even harder, would be just a blur... and at times the wheel spokes don't even seem to appear, all you see it the brakes and inner workings.

I still think LFS does the wheels well in full 3D, but there does need to be a point where the spokes are 'blended' at high speeds. All of these effects are eye candy, and I can only imagine S3 doing something like this. Been suggested before too.

Quote from micha1980de :

nevertheless it's more important to have some more serious issues fixed than the looks.
all the "Details" are important sure, i'm human and therefore driven by image & sound (thanks to evolution) but if the basis (physics) is setup properly and conclusive, then all these details will come from other people like all these nifty mods...

Scawen takes care of the physics, Eric takes care of the look. Normally, Eric working on better models or textures should not slow Scawen down, unless he's done with everything, and since this is not the case, we can say that at the moment, graphics details are just as important as physics.

That said, the wheels have no bolts.....
I'll also agree that it would be nice to have stuff written on the sidewalls. Would make for a more realistic look of the tires.

maybe he meant when taking a screenshot, there is radial blur already according to the speed so that on the edited screens, we don't see ugly, badly done radical blurs

hm, nice idea for screenshots but i already see the discussion if the photoshopped blur is to much/less cause of the lack of reference pictures with real cars at different speeds and different exposure in the camera timing...

but nice idea

Hi to all,
I'm not sure to understand all the problems you speak about ... I think the 'blur' of wheels could be done BEFORE the simulation start, by calculating some wheel images, and then those images could be used instead of real wheels details (for the side) when the speed is too fast for a human to see wheels details.
And I could say more : I don't care about WHEN a human can still see wheels details (at which speed, I mean). The wanted effect is only to see what we see in real life (do you often blink eyes to see wheels details when you see a nice car ?).

>>Most games have a texture for the wheel that comes in a number varieties from
>>'stationary' to a 'blurred' wheel.
>>The way LFS has done it now is still just fine, and you can see wheel details (not
>>that the wheels are very detailed to begin with).... If you want to see the wheels
>>details like in Torcs, then you haven't got some realism.
The realism which is important for persons who look at the game is not the PHYSIC realism, but only the VISUAL one. I don't think it's a great job to choose a texture to map on wheels while the speed is varying. But perhap's I'm wrong.

And to be honest, I would like to see brakes disks become red like on real tracks, when they become too hot ... or hot enougth like carbon ones

See you
Pat

PS: I have a special link with TORCS ... my brother is Eric
PS2: But I prefer LFS ! )

I'm digging up the thread because I've got an idea about blurred wheels.

Knowing wheel rotational speed and having possibility to draw semi-transparent triangles (spokes), there shouldn't be much problem drawing blurred wheels.
When rotational speed is increasing spokes should be draw multiple times having each instance rotated backward by a certain (delta) angle and transparency should be set in percentage = 100 - (100 / number_of_instances).

For example.
0-25 km/h - 1 instance at 0% transparency
26-50 - 2 at 50% transparency
51-75 - 3 at 33%
76-100 - 4 at 25%
etc.

Delta angle has to be set experimentally.

If you want blurred effects, look for the hacked DX8 DLL file for LFS.
It has motion blur effects that are quite good if you tweak it yourself.
Problem is, it'll reduce your FPS garanteed.

http://www.kegetys.net/lfs/

I'll repeat as posted there, it is a test. NOT for regular use!
I guess that means screen shots only.

Quote from DragonCommando :

If you want blurred effects, look for the hacked DX8 DLL file for LFS.

I tried it some time, but it is only a hack, and eats a lot of fps.
It fails on wheels blur when strobe effect is going to occur.
My suggestion should blur the wheels in any case.