Yes, I am a demo racer. I have planned to get s2, but it seems that there is too much tension. People on s2 are always saying how us demo racers don't deserver this and that, but we never wanted to start any problems, I mean, hey, it's a great game even on demo! I started my own team (Team[360]) and everything! It was a great time, and I share a lot of memories in this game. But many s2 players seem to have hard feelings toward us.

They say that we are arrogant, but don't get me wrong, a lot of demo racers are, but not everyone is, there are plenty of nice people here! And if I go to s2, and I hear someone complaining about demo, then what? I think of my friends that play it

So I would like to say, that we should all reconcile, and end the tension. Yes, this wont work for everyone, but I would like to keep things much happier

I know the S2 users are a bit too pushy. like car sales men. we S2 users gotta be carful on how we address demo users or we might loose sales

Heh, I didn't know s2 racers were now endorsing the product, and soliciting it O_O

It might seem like there's some kind of tension between S2 and demo, but that's only going by this forum. There are plenty of people who drive a lot and hardly ever post, from both sections of the community.

Having said that, some S2 drivers on this forum can indeed be a bit pushy and sometimes aggressive, but from what I've seen around here it's often due to demo users (and sometimes new S2 licensees)asking for more content in the game when they haven't seen the whole thing, asking for more demo content (when it's already quite a generous demo) or bringing up old topics without seeing if they've been discussed before many times (how many threads are there on RL tracks/cars or tuning, for example?). Those things happen here pretty regularly so I'm not surprised it can annoy people who have paid their money and have been around for a while, and who visit the forum regularly. If a demo user whose join date says "Feb 2007" or something comes to the official forum and starts asking for more demo content, he should be prepared to be told, in no uncertain terms, "buy a license if you want more stuff". If he comes in and starts a new thread about RL cars before doing a search, he shouldn't be surprised to see a reply saying "do a search!"

That's not the entire argument but I think it's a significant part of it. I think both sides could do their part and chill a bit: some S2 drivers could stop responding (with spam or abuse) to "more please" posts (or posts that are repeats of old/frequently repeated topics) and some demo users could have a look around the forum for five minutes or do a search before posting the first car-related thing that comes into their head

I think that's a fact of life on just about any public forum though, especially a popular one like this: you're always going to get newbies coming in and asking questions that are already in the FAQ, suggesting things that have been suggested already or asking for more things without having a quick look around first. Perhaps it's up to crusty "older" members to not over-react when someone mentions NOZ for the billionth time

Well, my friend doesn't play s2 as much anymore because as soon as he went into a server, he was called a "DEMO NOOB" by 15 people as he entered the room, because he didn't upload his files to lfsworld.net. And yes, I know how it works, I have been on live for speed enough to know the basics

Still, I don't like what I am seeing, yesterday, a person came into our server, said that demo racers didn't need teams, (for all the work put in making a team, this was offensive) and that all demo racers were arrogant. That was not fair to me, my team, my friends, and any others on live for speed. Prejudice, if you ask me

Yeah we've got some immature morons in S2. Does that somehow make it any different to the demo? The main difference is ours don't deliberately wreck other racers on the track, or at least I haven't seen anyone do it in a long time.

Well, CriticalD, that sucks for and your friend. I hope you don't let a few dickheads ruin your whole online racing experience or put you off getting a license. Unfortunately though, demo servers are open to anyone and, while there, a racer can remain basically anonymous. People know this, so some of them act like wankers because they know there's no real penalty. That's a sad fact of demo life unfortunately, many of us S2 drivers went through it when S2 was only a demo The great thing about licensed servers is that you get less of that kind of stupid behaviour. I won't lie and say it doesn't exist, but the the fact is that most intelligent people don't pay good money for a license only to go into a licensed server and screw it all up for everyone and get themselves kicked or banned. It certainly happens but nowhere near as much.

The guy who dropped into your server may or may not have an S2 player. Either way he was a complete tool and shouldn't be used as a guide to how licensed drivers behave online.

edit: I thought demo users couldn't upload to lfsworld.net anyway - so what were those idiots talking about?

I understand, and it's totally forseen that it would be like that. I'm just afraid, what will people on demo think of me when I am on s2? And I know that I can always go back to the demo servers, but i'll be missing alot of people! I mean, I have taught people how to drift, and soon, they were beating alot of people! I like to teach others, but it's hard to do it when people like ruining it for others. When you think about it, we could all use some shaping up. I'm not perfect either..


But here is a test I conducted a few minutes ago. I when into a server as "Thabit al-Mahkar" and drifted a bit. When they realized I was beating people, they started calling me a terrorist, and tried to voteban me. Not only that, alot of these players were from s2 teams! I don't think it is fair that demo racers can be stuck on a tarnished label while the s2 racers stay unheeded of in terms of this stuff

I agree wth Hankstar. I'd also like to say that I don't mind this community having a bit of an attitude towards the type of poor behaviour often found in the demo world. The same attitude persists within the S2 community and helps to keep racing cleaner and less disruptive. On a demo server anyone can get away with all sorts of havoc, and regularly that is what you see. In the S2 community you'll get eaten alive for disruptive behavior.
One thing I have noticed (which you may take heart in) is that most often the S2 community is totally accepting of new licensed players and welcomes them as if they have just joined a special club. Yesterday's "demo n00b" becomes an "S2 rookie" overnight.

Demo and S2 are two different worlds and some animosity is to be expected. It may seem harsh from the other side of the fence, but the grass really is greener on this side.

posts like this

Quote from Cr!t!calDrift :

Some of the cars of s2 suck, i tried it at my friend's house who had s2. Even with setups, they arent so good. Maybe improving on some of those cars.

don't exactly do much for the cause...

I dont see how...that has much to do with this topic...

So I dont like the RAC, FO8 and FOX, and the LX4.

That was a topic on what I wanted to see improving for the next one.


But if i had the game , I could post more detail on that, sorry. I have only used the cars twice, i tried all of them, but hey, I didn't enjoy some. =P

Edit: I realize that you may be suspicious, hey, I see what happens to those who don't know the consequences of cracking. The reason I know all the names, is because I had to open LFS, and go to my oh so lonesome demo....and then look up the names.

Quote from Cr!t!calDrift :

I dont see how...that has much to do with this topic...

So I dont like the RAC, FO8 and FOX, and the LX4.

That was a topic on what I wanted to see improving for the next one.


But if i had the game , I could post more detail on that, sorry. I have only used the cars twice, i tried all of them, but hey, I didn't enjoy some. =P

Edit: I realize that you may be suspicious, hey, I see what happens to those who don't know the consequences of cracking. The reason I know all the names, is because I had to open LFS, and go to my oh so lonesome demo....and then look up the names.

I think what Blowtus meant was that you've only tried these cars a few times at most at your friend's house but are asking that they be "improved". His point being that you may not have enough experience with these cars to know whether or not they are performing. I know for certainty that practicing in the XRG will not let you take the BF1 around the track at a competitive level and it will seem as if the car 'sucks' when it is, in fact, the driver.

(I know my limitations: back marker in the UF1.)

I don't think the tension is ALL of the S2 users making.

I am going to go out on a limb here (again).

I think that the majority of extended period demo users are young(er) people, and as such demo players either come to the forums screaming for this and that, or they speak in l33t speak and generally act like complete arses, this gets peoples backs up.

Yes, there are good and mature demo racers, and yes there are idiotic S2 users, its when the bad demo users and bad S2 users get together it all kicks off.

Also a lot of demo players are EXTREMELY stupid and niave, and quite clearly crack the game, then come into the forum and post post's that clearly show they have cracked the game

Not only that, but especially the "I saw it at a friend" excuse is the oldest and most dis proven one on this forum. It might be the truth in some cases, but more often than not it later turns out the suspect was indeed cracking the game. I hope you understand the general tight-arsedness about this topic, because we simply love the game AND especially its developers.

Lately I think anybody but the real obvious cases gets mostly a curious question about the source of their S2 content knowledge, but that's pretty much it. You should've seen the reactions one year ago

There's definately a lot of prejudice towards demo racers on this forum. Guilty until proven innocent and all that. You're basically worthless unless you're a demo user who can code some great app that everyone can use and contribute to the community, otherwise you're a waste of space. That's the way I see it on the forums, not sure about online though. There are some S2 users who still race on demo servers and don't have a problem with it. The few give the rest a bad name.

Quote from Davo :

The few give the rest a bad name.

Just like in all things

Demo racers do get an exceptionally hard time round here. Mainly it's when they're asking for stuff to be added to the game (new cars/tracks) when they haven't tried the existing content yet.
Asking for fixes doesn't seem to be as bad though (as long as you're not just duplicating a million other posts )

I played the demo for a couple of years before I was finally able to get my license, so I spent a lot of time on demo servers getting wrecked at T1... hmmm, some things never change

The bottom line is this: don't let the few hardcore ****s spoil your racing experience, licensed or not. The S2 license is great value for money (IMO) and the sim is only going to get better.

And while we're on the subject, I forgot I hadn't uploaded a new skin to LFSW the other day and nobody shouted abuse at me when I spammed them with "skin not found at LFSWorld"

Quote from Davo :

The few give the rest a bad name.

As in the real world its the minorities that are most vocal

right on the button sir. Sad but true. Theres minority activists in every walk of life that get a bizz out of spoiling stuff for other people. that's as true for S2 users as it is for demo users. Luckily they remain a minority and LFS has a very strong and loyal following, for the most part it remains self-policing but occasionally a bit of mob-rule takes over and we have to get the water cannon out

"Demo Racer" itself as a term makes me tense
Of course I'm not personally against anyone for just driving the demo, but the stereotype of people that usually have:

* played the demo version for months, or even years
* < 15 years of age
* no manners
* special characters or something related to drifting in username
* when not speaking bad english, they use excessive leet speek, and lol's
* demand (usually drift-related) content in improvement suggestions section.

It's a completely different matter and up to everyone themselves, does that stereotype exist or not...

EDIT: And for instance the nicer frokki recommends everyone who likes this game to buy S2. It's SO much value for your money! Years of fun..

personally i have no problem with demo users (after all weren't we all one once?) and even occasionally visit demo servers and i don't mind them making suggestions as to general improvements in game.


what i do find anoying is when a demo user posts up a thread asking for more cars / tracks in the demo or in the full game.

£24 is very little compared to the cost of the equipment used to play LFS, rival pc games. console games, price of cigarettes, alchohol, latest clothes, cds etc etc. if someone wants to play with more vehicles/ tracks then certainly in most western countries (sorry for generalising, not meaning to exclude anyone) people should be able to raise the cash, I live out in the sticks in north anglesey and my sons 14 year old half sister manages to earn £20 a week to spend on what she wants.

I dont think that Frokki meant non-english speakers when he referred to 'bad English', but to the Enlgish speaking YOOF who cant be bothered to make himself understood coherently.
As for bad manners, unfortunately that happens all to often on S2 servers as well. I have read countless complaints along the lines of:

"xxxxxx joined the server"
"xxxxxx voted to restart"

It happened to me the other day on one of the dSRC _TEAM_ servers...OK, so it was open and not private, but I was trying out some Endu sets, was on lap 35 of 40, and some PILLOCK joined the server and restarted the race within 2 secs of logging on!..When the prat realised that it was a 40 lap race, he left! Needless to say, he wont be coming back to my server for a while, cos his a**e is banned

Finally, although some may feel that the demo should be 'time limited', I feel that it would be counter productive..people may be less likely to try it if they know that it will expire soon...and if it WAS, what would stop people from simply re-installing it and using a new username?

As for the drifting argument, it does seem that drifting does tend to attract the 'younger' community, usually those with less finances, so there does tend to be a higher ratio of drifters on the demo servers, (even though there are those that like to drift the S2 cars as well).

I thoroughly recommend to all S2 users to occasionally log into a demo server, just so that you can see how lucky we are to have a full S2 licence!

I wouldn't worry about negativity when you go online as a new S2 racer. Whenever there's someone who said "I just got S2 ", everyone has welcomed them and said this is where they'll start to get addicted. People often offer advice or help if they need it, or just a friendly welcome. S2 racers are happy to have more new S2 racers, because it means more people to race against!

Demo has a reputation of wrecking, bad manners and some crackers. I know it is not everyone on demo but due to the demo's John Doe nature then people (to put it politely) act like assh*les - Again not everyone but the few that do tarnish the name of all demo users.
I, personally, quite like the demo still, its a good place to get some BL1 XFG or sole XRT racing. Still you get wrecked occasionally but usually good racing can be found on demo.
In S2 there are still noob's - by that i mean the kind of people who will do brake late into T1 and cause a pile up and then when the race is restarted do it again. There are fewer of them about, espcially wreckers (not noobs) as they get perminatly banned from alot of server's. Saying that there is alot more manners and better racing in S2 than demo.
But to my point - the tension between demo and S2 users is only between a few people and it seems that it has become the S2 users are labelled as demo haters, while demo users labelled wreckers and crackers.
Personally there are only 2 types of demo player i don't like and those are cracker's (proven one's ofcourse) and those who say they can't afford a licence and moan about it yet buy/own a g25 for example.

Edit - How did you spend £48 on licences and not get one yourself? FOOL (just to be clear the means i was joking)
Fanboys do jump on those who crack and i am sure many people do use cracked version's of 3ds max or photoshop etc, but it does seem it is more acceptable as those are big corportation's where LFS is a small dev team and a small company. It doesn't make cracking lfs or any other program right but if you went on adobe's forum or 3ds max forum (i don't know who makes it lol) and proved without a doubt you had a cracked version of their software exactly the same would happen as when people have cracked lfs here - there would get flamed, banned etc.

Quote from total konfuzion :

Of which I have proof of the complete opposite where someone accused me of being a cracker even though I've spent £48 on licenses because they didn't recognise this nick.

Quote from total konfuzion :

There's only 1 fool here... I suggest you do some research and / or actually read my post

I did read your post - did you mean when you went to buy S2 it didnt recognise "total konfuzion" or people didnt recognise the nick "total konfuzion" as you have kept your demo nick on here though you have s2?

Ian H was banned, although he's sneaked in under a different user name, the mods are turning a blind eye as he seems to be behaving himself.

@ Ian, asking people to recognize your nick, and being angered when they dont is rather stupid, ive only ever seen you on this forum, how would i know that "Total Konfuzion" is you?