Quote from Boris Lozac :

We agree on that, on countersteering and drifting, the curent FF technology is not near real life... BUT, i said, in normal driving, driving on the racing line, driving seriously, without oversteer etc.. the FF is very very good in LFS...
I had a go with G25, driving the XFG, and, boy, it felt like the wheel is really connected through the steering column! It felt so... REAL.. "it's like i am moving the tires with my hands" like Vicky from Fifth gear once said driving the Exige..
That is what i am talking about, and saying that FF is useless, delayed, contradictive, etc.. well, maybe in other "sims" but not in LFS for sure..

At least dfp is delayed in LFS too, not so much as in rFactor where delay surely feels to be quite massive, but in LFS there is more delay in effects than in GPL. I have heard G25 is lot faster, would be nice if someday I could test one.

But these delays I'm talking about are very very small, something like eye blink. I race quite lot LFS nowdays, but that is on my demo server 'Volvolandia' so it does not show in LFS world, however I have driven really a lot at blackwood and I know really well it already so I know what turns to make and what will happen next, only now I have started to notice these delays in dfp's FFB so they are rather small, however small things start to annoy when you constantly notice them.

Also that is how we are individuals, I'm sure other guys can feel lot differently than others, subjective things are something where there just is no truth, everyone has one truth that is true in their case.

When compared to my real car, LFS ffb is nothing like my real car feels, but this is issue with all games and sims, I don't think there is wheel or force feedback that would give same kind of effects what real car gives, it is completely different, so small things that you can feel and still so huge variance in power, it is very hard to even find words how to describe how real car wheel feels. I'm sure part of feeling is form how steering wheels effects whole body.

With the DFP set to anything more than 400 degrees I find the feedback to be delayed and unresponsive, mind you my PC maybe as much a limiting factor as the wheel

Quote from ajp71 :

With the DFP set to anything more than 400 degrees I find the feedback to be delayed and unresponsive, mind you my PC maybe as much a limiting factor as the wheel

Also I don't understand how force effects are completely different when wheel is set to for example 400 or 720, strength of effects for example is different, then there is no sharpness in them or something.

Worse thing is that with LFS there is effects missing, car shakes when driving over rumble strip and there is not even single effect, then sometimes there is when you do it with other side wheels. This was better with Microsoft wheel, there always was effect.

But that is just how FFB would need some serious development, perhaps G25 would be better in this and many other thing, then there would be pressure for other manufacturers to improve their wheels, perhaps even little competition and some funding for research of better FFB

If it wasn't for Immer$ions FF patents, I'm sure we'd have a $599 FF wheel that would be pretty impressive. Now its ~1350 euro for the VPP which is expensive, and it only has 270 degs of lock.

Quote from JTbo :

Also I don't understand how force effects are completely different when wheel is set to for example 400 or 720, strength of effects for example is different, then there is no sharpness in them or something.

I imagine that because of the rotational speed limiting factor mentioned earlier, to stop the DFP bursting into flames, having to move the wheel more means that info / data is obviously going to take longer to be updated.

The DFP only polls its data 125 times per second, which you might think is plenty. But since I've had the G25, with it's better gear reduction (therefore quicker turning) plus 500 polls per second, I've really noticed a difference in the sharpness and lower lag. Lag which previously I would have put down to my shoddy driving. For example, I noticed this in nkpro - where before I would self spin, I just thought I was crap, but the G25 lets me catch and correct spins easier. In LFS I've only been racing the UF1000 car since I got the G25, but it still feels better.

These jumps in technology do make a difference. When I had a Thrustmaster wheel, the resolution of the steps was only a bit over 100. Terrible. When I was trying to reach top speeds, this lower resolution meant that a small correction on a straight for example, would turn the front wheels enough to actually scrub speed from the car! Once I got the DFP, I actually had higher top speeds because the corrections could be so much more precise.

G25 sounds really nice indeed, who will buy me one?

Oh, so I need to suffer from this dfp then

It was really many years after Microsoft's ffb wheel until dfp did came and there was no any new innovation done meanwhile, now we got G25 which seem to be actually first real improvement over old Microsoft wheel ffb, really slow progress, but finally a progress.

On the other hand, the Thrustmaster belt / pully driven FF was definitely better than the gear type DFP / G25 FF.

Quote from dontsimon :

On the other hand, the Thrustmaster belt / pully driven FF was definitely better than the gear type DFP / G25 FF.

On the other hand, Thrustmaster doesn't want to even try to compete with Logitech and are happy releasing El Cheapo wheels.

Yep, all in all Logi are winning in my opinion. That Thrustmaster wheel wouldn't even work on a an Nforce2 mobo. They knew about the issue, but refused to do anything about it.