Quote from Lacroix :

I've only been playing for a couple of weeks now, and I just got through all the training courses.

Should I now pick a car/circuit and start hotlapping to improve my times/driving, or are therer servers I can go to? ie. newbie servers where you can learn and don't get hammered into the ground if you end up hitting someone... :-)

Welcome!

The fact that you actually took all the training lessons just tells me, that you're probably a very considerate person and are ready for just about any server. It's likely that you'll be hit more than actually hitting someone yourself. So, take Kev's advice and go for it .

Quote from Lateralus :

That's what would make sense, but remember we're talking about some real fool LFS drivers here. My experience with the FOX on AS Club leads me to the same conclusion as the guy you quoted, which is to say around the outside of T1 is often the way to go. Seems there's always a few guys who charge to the inside without bothering to look, so they tap someone's front end and spin them around. Cars behind then plow into the spun car. Since the turn is so slow though, I usually don't have any problems with cars spinning to the outside.

I have some good replays of me braking ridiculously late (30-40m) before T1 at AS Club, hugging the edge of the track on the outside and passing 10+ cars. Once I went from 22nd to 3rd by the end of the first lap because no one could seem to keep it on the road. And I was intentionally slow for the whole lap in order to be as clean as possible.

That's why carnage begins though, people go to the outside and others the inside. Then they meet in the middle, most of the time it's the guy on the outside who causes the pile up by taking no care in the cars already there. If everyone did the start like you would in real life there would be no space for overtaking on the inside so the only chance of contact would be underbraking, rather than positioning of cars. Any mistake would usually spit the car out onto the outside of the track.

The only time I will take the outside at AS Club is if I'm 2nd and most of the time if 3rd is close to me I'll just drive as close as I can to the 1st place man if he is smart enough to realise to keep to the inside, this way there is no chance of getting another car squeezing through. If your in a grid of good drivers then the outside line will make you lose a hell of a lot of places, hence why I'll always get across to the inside off the grid.

What disappoints me in people online is the lack of race craft they have. They make the overtaking piss easy and before you know it your chasing down the leaders after starting last. I'd say about 80% of the people I've raced in public races just let you drive by. Usually in a full server there is about maybe 3 people who fight a bit harder.

The biggest and best tip anyone can keep in there head is coming into T1 if you are going to brake early, brake gently first to warn following drivers and progressively brake harder. Braking very hard and early is not good practice as half the drivers will still be on the throttle pedal behind you.

Keiran

Quote from keiran :

I'd say about 80% of the people I've raced in public races just let you drive by. Usually in a full server there is about maybe 3 people who fight a bit harder.

Well, you must be one of the few that actually like the challenge. I usually try to hold on to my position no matter if the car behind me is obviously faster (if i'm not under the blue flag of course) and honestly simply keeping close to the optimum line does hinder the other car. But most of the time i did this i either get rear-ended rather badly, either get barge-passed which leads to the other hitting my front side, messing up my suspension. Main problem is i am afterwards blamed for not letting the other guy pass illepall. Well, i thought i was actually supposed to fight, but this kind of behavior made me let pretty much anybody go. So you can say i'm actually scared.

I've noticed i'm not the only 'scared' one, on south city i got behind a car that had crashed then repaired (or maybe had joined late, or something), and i was about to lap it. But even he is blue flagged, i don't bother passing on chicanes or on tight turns, i usually wait for a turn exit or a straight (that's where i let others pass at least) because it's too risky. He was in a good condition for racing (i mean he had no visual damage), yet the poor guy was so scared of the blue flag he actually slowed down so much on a few turns and almost stopped just to let me by. He actually hindered me a lot more by doing this. This is obviously a lack of experience in racing and too much 'hotlapping'. Seems to me a lot of guys can't drive the whole track, just that optimum line. If guys like this would go on a track day with a slower car, what would they do? Go 50 km/h countinuously signalling they noticed the other car?
One more thing, I'm starting to get bored of the 'BLUE FLAG BLUE FLAG **** OFF!' even when there's no blue flag involved.

Quote from moeFinley :

I replied ¨When your the car in front you can brake when you like!¨, which got a few smiles from others.

Do you really mean this literally ?
Because most of the times when i'm following a car i expect him to brake at some place, ex:close to 100m, when the car in front is about to brake, i'm already braking, but if you brake at the 150m mark, chances are that i wiil bump into you, just because i wasn't expecting you to brake so soon.

Should i review my racing behavior?

I go wide in T1 on As Club, if I are in the top position, in the start. I know everybody will try to "take the narrow turn" there

I loose some positions, mostly, doing that, but usually I survive T1 and lives to gain them back (the positions)

If I are close to an unknown racer (I don`t know his brake patterns) then I keep my car in a position, if he brakes early, where I can pass him woithout hitting him, or I give him a few yards near the turn, to see what he`s doing

Quote from fujiwara :

Do you really mean this literally ?
Because most of the times when i'm following a car i expect him to brake at some place, ex:close to 100m, when the car in front is about to brake, i'm already braking, but if you brake at the 150m mark, chances are that i wiil bump into you, just because i wasn't expecting you to brake so soon.

Should i review my racing behavior?

in my opinion, unless you know the other driver's style, you should take into account the fact that he might drive in a different way than you do. if i have a white spot on my tire and the tread is thin, i usually brake earlier just so i don't have to apply full brake and thus i avoid a flat.

Quote from fujiwara :

Should i review my racing behavior?

Not really, imho. And I don't think it was meant literally. I mean, think about it: Say you're coming onto the bl straight with some guy close in front. What you'll do is, you'll try to stay as close as possible in order to use his slipstream and overtake on the straight and/or outbreak him in the next turn (preferably on the inside ). When this guy now brakes at around 250m before the turn, it's surely not acceptable, as there is a rule (somewhere) stating that braking for no reason is not allowed. and surely there's no reason for braking at the 250m mark on the bl straight. However, if I personnally follow somebody and see that he's obviously not the safest driver out there (and say I'm not close enough after the esses to use his slipstream but very close shortly before the next turn), I would probably move out of his slipstream a fair distance before the turn and try to pass him through the turn. Which might actually work, considering he's not very fast

Quote from fujiwara :

...Should i review my racing behavior?

Slightly if you see me in the server ahead . I think you should be prepared for the driver ahead to brake well before 100m and the 150 m mark sounds like a good point. I don't brake at 100m, I can't figure out how some folks brake so early. It all depends on the track and the corner of course, but I don't think braking at 150m would warrant an "OMG!!! You brake way too early!!" Anything sooner than 150, sure, that is way too early. 150 meters as a braking point is a bit early, but not all that bad. People have really different driving styles and driving skills. Some can be a good driver, and still be slow with slightly earlier braking points.

Me? I usually brake at around 125. I'm not particularly fast. I'm either really fast for the middle group, or really slow for the fast group. Can't figure out which group to put myself in (1:31.5 at westhill and 1:42.5 at AS Nat in FZR for some perspective on my pb times )

There will always be taps, bumps and scrapes throughout racing. The rear ending people ive done by accident many times when i was a newbie and less and less but i still do it occasionally usually when theres a newbie ahead who brakes really early (i mean like bl1 end of straight brakes at 200m) and i dont expect it - saying this though getting better all the time and ive noticed now that unless i am right up to the bumper on them then i can just steer and out brake them for the pass. The other time is a slight misjudgment on the length of the bonnet when your going through a corner trying to keep as close as possible so you can draft them on the straight but end up a bit too close.
If someone has wrecked me or a really stupid thing (like trying to take hotlap line and speed thru t1) then i usually am a bit annoyed with them even if they sorry. Then there are the occasions where it really was a complete accident, they apologise and my usually response is "lol, no problem" and just get on with racing. If i tap the car infront i ignore it but if i bump them then i will apologise and if it was really bad crash then i will stop and type "sorry for that [drivers name] i [insert reason for the accident]"
Its all really common sense what you should do when racing, if theres a car up your inside through a corner, leave a cars width at the apex for them not to make the pass easy but its curtious and avoids accidents.

Quote from alland44 :

I go wide in T1 on As Club, if I are in the top position, in the start. I know everybody will try to "take the narrow turn" there

I loose some positions, mostly, doing that, but usually I survive T1 and lives to gain them back (the positions)

If I are close to an unknown racer (I don`t know his brake patterns) then I keep my car in a position, if he brakes early, where I can pass him woithout hitting him, or I give him a few yards near the turn, to see what he`s doing

yup same here. i think it is a mistake to go 100% trying to pass somebody unless you are sure they are a fast/warmed up with that particular car/track combo.

Since I'm a fairly slow but consistent driver I often pass people when they fall off. This ofcourse means I often end up having faster cars behind me which really want their position back badly, a fairly exciting prospect to say the least.

What annoys me then is the 'lappers' who seem to only have one line and if you are in the way they'll clip your rear or barge you and then drive on without as much as a sorry in the chat.

And sometimes I have even experienced being barged by lappers who are in fact one round behind, that is just so wrong.

And these are not n00bs or newbies but often people who drives close to WR times on the track...that is exceptionally annoying.

The other annoying thing is that if I drive somewhat slower than the car behind me on say the last lap, then I gotta be allowed to drive a defensive inside line through the curves, it's not my fault they can't haul a proper overlap in time, I have been yelled alot by some for doing this but surely this must be allowed? If I can see the other car in the rearview mirror then I should be allowed to take the line of my choosing, no?

Ofcourse on the straights I let them blast by, but even on straights I have experienced being clipped by near WR drivers who then procede with a verbal assault on chat. And ok, I'm slow, but I'm not roadblock slow either, nothing that should be dangerous to a good driver atleast.

I don't know if I have a point. I guess my point is that a good driver has to take into account us non-expert drivers also. We might lap 3-4 secs slower and he might find us in a difficult bend, on a straight just fast enough to ruin his entry speed for the next curve etc, and as it is in fact a jostle for true positon (not blue flag or anything) I think even we deserve enough courtesy to not be rammed off the road.

If it weren't for us, what would be fun about being fast anyway.

could you post a replay?

Since I'm a fairly slow but consistent driver I often pass people when they fall off. This ofcourse means I often end up having faster cars behind me which really want their position back badly, a fairly exciting prospect to say the least.

What annoys me then is the 'lappers' who seem to only have one line and if you are in the way they'll clip your rear or barge you and then drive on without as much as a sorry in the chat.

And sometimes I have even experienced being barged by lappers who are in fact one round behind, that is just so wrong.

And these are not n00bs or newbies but often people who drives close to WR times on the track...that is exceptionally annoying.

If they drive like a noob, then noobs they are

The other annoying thing is that if I drive somewhat slower than the car behind me on say the last lap, then I gotta be allowed to drive a defensive inside line through the curves, it's not my fault they can't haul a proper overlap in time, I have been yelled alot by some for doing this but surely this must be allowed? If I can see the other car in the rearview mirror then I should be allowed to take the line of my choosing, no?

Yes ! - You are allowed to choose the lines in the turns, as the leading car - And you have one move on the straigths

Quote from CYA LTR :

And these are not n00bs or newbies but often people who drives close to WR times on the track...that is exceptionally annoying.

the reason for this might be that they are not experienced in public racing. They are used to driving in leagues against guys with similar pace, who won't take a corner unexpectedly slow.

no, I am not defending them. I enjoy racing on public servers, though usually I am able to pull away up front once I got there and if no accidents happen or no alien is there, but I really enjoy the process of getting to the front when I have a lower place on the grid.
Anticipation is very important on public servers, I always expect the worse from fellow racers unknown to me, this makes me extra cautious, leaving enough space in the turns and braking earlier than usual when close behind someone. in the end I either had a good race, or everyone had an accident or made a mistake and I end up winning

Quote from csurdongulos :

the reason for this might be that they are not experienced in public racing. They are used to driving in leagues against guys with similar pace, who won't take a corner unexpectedly slow.

That i totally agree with. BUT when you enter a server with, hm, let's say 'new&bronze' in the name (just a wild thought), would you really expect the fellow racers to be less than one second away from the wr? Honestly when i first...*cough*...if i'd join such a server i'd expect it to be full of 'aliens' .

Here's another question for the guys that really know the rules and can or are marshalls for a league:

i had written the whole race here but thought it would've been too boring. so long story short...
i've got a hotlapper behind me while i'm 1 lap ahead, so if he passes he'd be blue flagged. he's allowed to try to unlap himself, right? But although his laptime is faster, seems my total is better. So i decide not to act like -i- had the blue flag, and go on like he wasn't there. He tried barging past on a chicane but my line forced him to hit the tires. Well...how come that's my fault and i'm the idiot that doesn't know what blue flag means? . If it matters, i did finish the race in the top5, he didn't finish at all.
Question would be: he's allowed to un-lap, but is it ok if i fight him like i was fighting for position?

Btw, is there anyway i can save a multiplayer race when i'm not the server?

You can do almost anything if you're the one in front... Question is: Would you really risk losing your position and even your race to fight someone who is already behind you? You have nothing to gain, but much to lose... Would you take the risk?

Quote from apo3d :

That i totally agree with. BUT when you enter a server with, hm, let's say 'new&bronze' in the name (just a wild thought), would you really expect the fellow racers to be less than one second away from the wr? Honestly when i first...*cough*...if i'd join such a server i'd expect it to be full of 'aliens' .

Question would be: he's allowed to un-lap, but is it ok if i fight him like i was fighting for position?

Btw, is there anyway i can save a multiplayer race when i'm not the server?

@ your first paragraph: sure, people have to think and take into account the circumstances, not everybody can do that, as it requires thinking and some people just don't know how to do that

@ your question: when I am in the position of a lap behind and catching up to slower drivers I always stick behind until I can make a safe pass without hindering him/her, it is just a mentality question, no way your fault. But if you meet someone who is lapped, faster and close behind, it is much safer to let him go to avoid a possible accident.

you can save multiplayer replays when you press "2", or did you mean when you are not IN the server? in this case the answer is no

Quote from bbman :

You can do almost anything if you're the one in front... Question is: Would you really risk losing your position and even your race to fight someone who is already behind you? You have nothing to gain, but much to lose... Would you take the risk?

This is a good point, but IMHO, apo3d, you handled it exactly as you should have done. I've seen this happen many times, but its an especially useful tactic on the FE tracks: if you can hold your position against any impatient driver, its odds on they'll launch themselves off the kerbs or through the tyres and you're unlikely to see them for the rest of the race....

Quote from csurdongulos :

you can save multiplayer replays when you press "2", or did you mean when you are not IN the server? in this case the answer is no

no, i meant when i JOINED a server (i'm not THE server), so thanks for the tip .
also thank you guys for asnwering my question(s).

Hi, it's me again.

I'm starting to race a bit online, primarily trying not to cause crashes

I'm usually racing AS Club in the Fox (don't know if that's good to start).
But my question is:

I only seem to be able to pass opponents who really made errors (crashing/spinning/etc), and not by speed only. I notice some cars actually seem to go much faster than mine (same car tho).

Can the setup matter a lot?

Also, I heard there was a program you could use to analyse you're driving or something. Is there any such thing that can help me?

its probably because you are not driving as efficiently as other people. either by letting the car slide too much, or not driving aggressivly enough. or it could be your setup is not good.

I'm driving the standard setup, I have no notion on how to make it better whatsoever.

just ask the fastest person on the server for a set thats what i do. then read up on the forums about how to tweak setups when you have more time.

:edit: or go here
http://www.teaminferno.hu/

Quote from Hockquan :

I'm not the greatest racer that eve lived (obviously) but it's difficult even when you have an idea of what you are doing. Yesterday I was racing on the STCC server and got into a fight with this guy for the whole race on Blackwood GP reverse. We were swapping positions at least once each lap and leaving each other enough room, at times we were both sacrificing speed through corners because that's the only way we were both going to get through them safely. Perfect. Until the last lap and the chicane before the final hairpin. I was right up behind him and he broke slightly earlier than I would have...unfortunately the little tap resulted in him going off line to the side and not having enough run off and piling into the wall. I was pretty embarrased about it and apologized instantly because it was a diamond race until that point.

He was absolutely fine about it. His words were 's**t happens'. Now thats the attitude. So many people would have instantly whipped out their 'wtf, noob!' card on that when it was an honest mistake due to slight differences in style. Usually I'd just go a bit to the side of someone to soak up any differences in braking but in that situation I couldn't and it went wrong.

Totally agree. I had a similar race last night and got knocked at a corner but it was good to have raced with that person. We were trading places for most of the race and although I lost due to the knock, we have to realise that this is just a game and people are just trying to have fun and race. Sometimes someone goes a little overboard and I can totally understand that as long as he is not an @$$ about it or doing anything stupid like purposely knocking people and not trying to race.

Quote from fujiwara :

Do you really mean this literally ?
Because most of the times when i'm following a car i expect him to brake at some place, ex:close to 100m, when the car in front is about to brake, i'm already braking, but if you brake at the 150m mark, chances are that i wiil bump into you, just because i wasn't expecting you to brake so soon.

Should i review my racing behavior?

We're not talking about 50m difference here. But there are different approaches to the same corner when racing as you might want a certain position on the track or more speed before or after the corner.

But then if you're that close to someone you should be watching their brake lights like a hawk. Not only so you don't crash into them but also so you can take any advantage you have.