I personally can't believe this would do any harm, so +1 
But on the contrary I can't understand some people on ffs, I mean lfsforums
But on the contrary I can't understand some people on ffs, I mean lfsforums
you make my serious-meant suggestions seems ridiculous
normal road cars can't get their suspension settings as low as it's possible now without altering the steering-rack giving it lower max. lock; guess why race-cars have lower steering angles
As I said before, I'm fine with increasing maximum lock, as long as it is kept realistic (less ride height=less max lock)
like all the ppl posting -1, I dont know what you are talking about so +1
+1, because it really wouldn't hurt anyone. Racers can use whatever they want and same goes for drifters. Racers won't care if there's more than 36 degrees, they usually set it lower anyway.
+1
my :twocents:
my :twocents:
put ya hands up for detroit +1
As I've already said, the real problem is that LFS still has NO simulation of tire rub on solid fenders. Another problem is that cars in LFS can be lowered to VERY absurd levels. Truth is, the car models and many other things about the cars in LFS is still far from complete.
As for lowered cars, lowering does not force the need for lower steering lock, as long as you don't go LOWER than the suspension's original travel range and don't use excessively large tires. As long as you don't do anything silly like cutting off the bumpstops. It's about time LFS starts simulating bumpstops, but again I risk getting shot down for proposing anything too realism biased.
With the current lack of sensible limits to lowering and suspension coupled with less than properly behaving fenders, I simply see no harm in using anything no more than 45 degrees sice the tires already stick out conspicuously at 36 degrees of lock. And the way things are, losing more of lock won't solve anything.
As for lowered cars, lowering does not force the need for lower steering lock, as long as you don't go LOWER than the suspension's original travel range and don't use excessively large tires. As long as you don't do anything silly like cutting off the bumpstops. It's about time LFS starts simulating bumpstops, but again I risk getting shot down for proposing anything too realism biased.
With the current lack of sensible limits to lowering and suspension coupled with less than properly behaving fenders, I simply see no harm in using anything no more than 45 degrees sice the tires already stick out conspicuously at 36 degrees of lock. And the way things are, losing more of lock won't solve anything.
+1
why hybrids? u can get full lock on alot of corner's with normals or supers
Yes, I did read that. And the article suggest that such amounts of steering lock are "obscene" and only appear on very few cars.
Which lead to my post above.
As long as the technology behind something requested is "obscene" or very rarely found you might just ask for Audi TorSen differentials, Weissach suspension and all those other groovy goodies.
Vain
Obsecene? What's an "obscene tech"? Please clearify.
And what's wrong with requesting Torsens in the long run? They are getting remarkably common in so many cars worth owning anyway. Speaking of rare tech, isn't it time that multilink suspension gets a serious consideration in LFS? It's been so common for so long that it would be "obscene" to not include it in a racing SIMULATOR. And there are some existing cars in LFS that could benefit from multilink rears.
First, there's the challenge to find a real car with more than 36 degrees of lock. The when those cars turn out to be quite common (S13s aren't exactly rare or exotic, while RX-7s were Porsche 944 inspired FR cars), there's the excuse of it's "obscene". Well, I have fond memories of Volvo 240s with OBSCENE amouts of OEM steering lock. Hmmm...
Hybs are more fun in the long run. Longer drifts, more smoke.
Rubbish. Listen to yourself. You see "stock" race prepped street cars appear very often then? Our very highly race specced LFS street cars aren't "obscene" then?
Read above.
I don't quite see your point. We aren't asking the moon from the sky, we are only asking for a few extra degrees to steering lock here. That is hardly "obscene".
Actually I'm very well aware of what I write and reread my posts several times to make sure they are logically conclusive. That's why I don't feel myself forced in any way to back up my point beyond that. I just don't explain things twice. You're discussing my usage of the word "obscene" regarding lock angles above 36° when I actually got that term from the article you posted yourself.
But back to the topic: I asked a question, but unfortunately it seems no one here seems to have the ability to answer it.
And, on a sidenote, I never continue discussions when one of the participants starts their answer with something along the lines of: "Rubbish."
Vain
But back to the topic: I asked a question, but unfortunately it seems no one here seems to have the ability to answer it.
And, on a sidenote, I never continue discussions when one of the participants starts their answer with something along the lines of: "Rubbish."
Vain
off topic but im pretty sure scawen has multilinks somehwere down the list but im also pretty sure that the current suspension model is 2d only so its impossible to simulate multilinks in the current version
just like it isnt possible to simulate trailing arms
i guess it depends on how you do it ... but the most logical way would be to change the gearing of the steering rack which shouldnt change anything about the way the suspension works
(thisnameistaken)
DELETED
by thisnameistaken
No, they use the over-simplified suspension that all cars had back in 0.3x.
I'm discussing what you find so "obscene" about adding more steering lock. The actual word "obscene" can mean several things. In this context it is rather out of place however. Every single one of our LFS cars are "obscene" in a way.
I would have answered your question if I would have had and direct and sure answer for it. However my rather sure guess would however be: 'No, it doesn't affect the rest of the suspension'. Does changing the current steering lock from minimum to maximum do any other changes to the suspension? Nope.
Sorry. Some people here just seem to dig up excuses and claims out of nowhere just to shoot down any suggestion what-so-ever towards drifting. That is why I was harsh on you and I sincerely apologize. The thing is though, even though this forum surely doesn't know it, the drifting community is huge and growing. Some of you might be amazed at the amount of skilled people the underground drift community has in its lines. The devs can't no longer simply ignore the people who bought this sim just to go sideways in it. To sum this up on my behalf, I'm going to answer all posted arguments and claims against adding more lock as well as I can:
"More than 36 degrees is unrealistic" - As proven already, there are cars even with 50 degrees of lock in real life. This is one of the main proofs why we should have more in LFS with our street cars. We are driving in a simulator, which should be as realistic as it can be. Limiting such a simple setting isn't realistic.
"Good drifters can drift fine with current steering, they don't need any more lock" - That is like saying "We have plenty of cars already, we don't need any more". People (including yours truly) have gotten bored at drifting small angles. Just like people get bored at driving the same old cars.
"LFS should just include a special drifting car for the drifters" - Very good suggestion might I say, but unfortunately very unlikely to happen.
We would also be much better off with just having more steering lock in the rear wheel drive street cars. This would take much less time to change/make."Because then It may be an advantage for racers who have 45 degrees. So everyone takes 45 degrees, and then it's no sim... (that's not what I paid for)" - Even tho this argument makes no sense, I'll still try to answer it. Many race sets that I personally drive with hardly use even our current maximum steering lock. All hotlapping setups I have tried only have 30 degrees or so. Adding more steering lock has no effect in this argument.
"45° is just way too easy for drifting and racing on a 270 or a 180 wheel" - Determine easy?
There will never, trust me, never be a time when we are all driving with a 900 degree wheel alongside a manual clutch and a shifter. Some people will get to drive easier but that doesn't matter to whom want more challenge and buy an advanced hardware setup."The wheels would clip through the car body" - As proven in the thread before, this already happens in current version. This is quite a picky argument because I can't think of a single sim or a game on PC that wouldn't have some model clipping errors. But remember, real cars have high steering lock angles. It would be daft to cure the wheel clipping problem by reducing the steering lock. Raising the minimum allowed car height would indeed be a better cure for it.
"Such amounts of steering lock are "obscene" and only appear on very few cars. The technology behind something requested is "obscene" or very rarely found" - It isn't obscene to add steering lock in real life. I wouldn't even call it "technology". Few of my friends have personally added more steering lock to their real cars and it's hardly more than weekends worth of work. Our current LFS transmissions are far far far more obscene than a simple steering lock addition. Even an average-joe can add steering lock to his car, but he can not adjust his transmission in 0.001 steps.
whaz bob said ... oh and try the handbrake in any of the fwd and see how they dont squat like they should
ok easy ... well i cant say ive been drifting at all back in s1 but i do remember watching a s1 drift vid which iirc was made by waider
ive got no idea if he was in yf back then already but either way i think we can agree that he isnt exactly the least talented drifter out there
so anyway one scene (actually the only scene) i still remember is him going down the hill at bl1 t1 ... slightly messing it up and saving it with a short flick of 45° of lock
so back to my point ... as long as youre drifting at more or less resonable angles with normals 45° is a safety net you can always pull in case you mess up ... or more to the point there is no messing up any more
So what if it's easy? For true drifting enthusiasts, small turn radius on a wheel makes it very very boring very very fast. For about six months, I had my wheel set to 180 degrees and I got to the point that it was pretty much impossible to spin if I was concentrating. Then I set my DFP to 720 and a whole new world of fun and understanding began. My skills are on a much higher level now than ever on 180.
EDIT: Drifting on a practice server isn't a competition. It doesn't matter how many crazy, totally unrealistic saves someone makes. The whole idea is to concentrate on developing your OWN skills while having a good time with your friends. Sure, I could go back to 180 and wave my car around like it's on rails, but where's the fun in that? Even now it's super unrealistic because anyone with either a mouse, pad or a wheel can "cheat" just as easy.
I don't drift (well, exceedingly rarely, and only so other people can take the mickey). I don't think it's realistic to include excessive steering lock on the LFS road cars. I don't think the good drifters need it.
How about a compromise - 40 degrees on the XRT only (which as far as I know is the main LFS Drift car). That way the precious cars character isn't tainted, the drifters are happier and the racers, who don't really use the XRT all that much anyway [although it's the only one in the TBO class I'll ever want to drive] will barely notice the difference.
Meet in the middle?
How about a compromise - 40 degrees on the XRT only (which as far as I know is the main LFS Drift car). That way the precious cars character isn't tainted, the drifters are happier and the racers, who don't really use the XRT all that much anyway [although it's the only one in the TBO class I'll ever want to drive] will barely notice the difference.
Meet in the middle?
Some people just won't get it? 45 degrees lock won't make any difference at all for the racers (Yes, I love to race too), if you need that 45 deg lock to save you've already messed it. And arguing that good drifters won't need it is just "rubbish", most people that are asking for more lock in here are among the best drifters I know of. (In LFS
)I don't think many people that argue that 30 degrees lock is "realistic" has really driven a car with 30deg lock. I've got an FC3S rx7 with the factory 30deg setup, and it was one of the first things that I noticed when I drove for the first time. If you can prove that most RWD sports cars have less than, let's say 40degrees, then please go ahead and show me. I'd be happy to know, I just don't like it when people argue with no proof.
Next time I go into town, or in my garage, I'll take a protractor with me, and see how much lock there is on as many cars as I can find.
Note: I am prone to forgetting stuff like this, so if YOU want to do it, and write down model, year and steering lock on 100% standard road cars then be my guest.
Note: I am prone to forgetting stuff like this, so if YOU want to do it, and write down model, year and steering lock on 100% standard road cars then be my guest.
How about an FC3S RX7 as I hear that only has 30deg of lock
illepall is that not less than 40? So how is that proof of more than 40deg.Scawen has said that IF people prove there are cars with more than 36deg he will change it. Guess what, the change down to 36deg was done WELL OVER a year ago and we still have 36deg lock.
So go and find cars with more, so far you have only proved, with your RX7 related post, that less than 36deg is fine.
Youd' think a topic that had two open threads would be pretty interesting, wouldn't you? I couldn't be more bored right now, even if I was watching "Drifting With T3h Stars".
I doubt Scawen is going to give 45 degs of lock to the XRT just to satisfy a few people, especially since he already removed the excess lock to bring LFS more or less in line with reality. RL drifters can deal with less (yes, except the pros with the mad dorifto cars, yada yada, I'm talking about road cars) so why should LFS drifters get special treatment? You could raise the point that the road cars are way too adjustable in all other areas so why not in the lock department...well, as someone who's been in favour of less adjustability for the road cars that argument won't hold water with me.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I really can't see what the fuss is about. Ten or so degrees of lock just to make going sideways easier seems like a piffling, insignificant little detail which affects a tiny minority of LFS players (despite the intensity of the arguments it creates, I'm sure most people don't give a rat's arse) and which, if implemented, would take valuable time away (every second counts!) from the aspects of LFS which actually matter, like physics, sound, new cars/tracks and the ability to arm your car to the teeth like in Interstate '76.
I doubt Scawen is going to give 45 degs of lock to the XRT just to satisfy a few people, especially since he already removed the excess lock to bring LFS more or less in line with reality. RL drifters can deal with less (yes, except the pros with the mad dorifto cars, yada yada, I'm talking about road cars) so why should LFS drifters get special treatment? You could raise the point that the road cars are way too adjustable in all other areas so why not in the lock department...well, as someone who's been in favour of less adjustability for the road cars that argument won't hold water with me.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I really can't see what the fuss is about. Ten or so degrees of lock just to make going sideways easier seems like a piffling, insignificant little detail which affects a tiny minority of LFS players (despite the intensity of the arguments it creates, I'm sure most people don't give a rat's arse) and which, if implemented, would take valuable time away (every second counts!
) from the aspects of LFS which actually matter, like physics, sound, new cars/tracks and the ability to arm your car to the teeth like in Interstate '76.Yes it's realistic (as mentioned over and over again, even amateur drifters modify their cars for more steering lock). And again, this isn't about "good drifters". No serious driver can say that the XRT can't be drifted with 36 degs. The point here is that 45 degrees would bring lots of fun for us experienced drifters who'd like to make even bigger drifts with greater angle.
How about everyone sets it to the value they like to keep it at? That way each LFS driver can define the character of their car themselves.
PS. It might not have been clear from the start but we drifters (or most of us anyways) would like to see more lock for ALL RWD street cars (XRT, FZ5, RAC, XRG, LX4, LX6), not just the XRT. The FZ5 would especially interesting because it's pretty much the only RWD street car with enough power for proper D1 like drift (without having to play around with hybrids etc.).
EDIT: I'm such an idiot, ofcourse no RB4.
Still you thought, "Heh, I'll go write a negative post, damn drifters ruining teh whole LFS community!!!111". If it's that boring, why even bother?
The drifting community is growing all the time, this shouldn't be ignored. Sure, RL cars have less than 45 degs but once anyone gets serious about taking part in drift competitions, that's the first thing he'll change.
If nobody gives a rat's ass, why are you against it?
Yah... I'm no programmer but if changing the steering angle is such a huge job, we're never ever going to see S2 get finished.
I hope I didn't come off as too cocky but I'm getting kinda tired typing the same things over and over again.
Drift Max. Lock
(624 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG