Quote from axus :

Back to topic with GTR2, if anyone is keen for a laugh, take a look at the tyre curves from the NAP mod for GTR2 here.

... you've never heard of the "camelhump" effect, eh? :P

Quote from xaotik :

... you've never heard of the "camelhump" effect, eh? :P

No one has, but now we have all seen it

those curves should be great for drifting ... only problem is your stuck with one single angle the tyre will drift at

Thats what the car really behaves like. Last night, I was testing the rain effect and when I lost the car, applied countersteer and lifted the gas a bit, the car always slid forward in the same angle. Snap oversteer, but no instant spin - but nice 10 second drift instead. The instant spin is really easy to prevent, but catching a started slide seems impossible.

The more I play this game, the more I smile when thinking why am I playing LFS..

EDIT: yep, clarifies my opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmjJdaUXww

I have been playing around with the GTR2 tyre curves and am looking for some testers and feedback.

As you probably know, the stock GTR2 tyre curves are questionable; the lateral force-slip angle curve has a significant post-peak fall-off which the developer has acknowledged is probably too large and the traction-slip ratio and braking-slip ratio curves are copies of the lateral force-slip angle curve, which doesn't make any sense at all.

I have modified the tyre curves so that they now have appropriate typical shapes, as shown in the following diagrams.

Lateral force - slip angle
http://members.shaw.ca/sjdickson1968/gtr2_lateral_curve.jpg

Traction - slip ratio
http://members.shaw.ca/sjdickson1968/gtr2_accel_curve.jpg

Braking - slip ratio
http://members.shaw.ca/sjdickson1968/gtr2_braking_curve.jpg

Note that these are normalized curves.

I have not changed any of the associated modifier parameters in the .tyr files as I have no way of knowing whether these are incorrect nor how they should be adjusted if they are.

The modified .tyr files can be downloaded from: http://members.shaw.ca/sjdickson1968/GTR2_TYR_Modified.zip See the readme.txt for installation instructions. The package also contains the original .tyr files in case you want to revert back to them.

Feedback appreciated.

Also, please don't spread these changes around to other forums. I'd prefer feedback from LFS users for now.

I'm not sure about longitudinal curves, but I guess they should be okay. Not that they make a huge difference anyway.

On the lateral ones, well I can only repeat what I've heard from axus, respectively from Todd Wasson; the tyres shouldn't have any dropoff at all, at most a few % which could be accounted for measuring error. Instead they rise to a certain level, and then plateau off. IIRC they had measured tyres to up to 80° of slip angle, but I can't see what scale the X axis on your screens has.

Quote from BuddhaBing :

Also, please don't spread these changes around to other forums. I'd prefer feedback from LFS users for now.

I can understand this very very well

Quote from frokki :

Thats what the car really behaves like. Last night, I was testing the rain effect and when I lost the car, applied countersteer and lifted the gas a bit, the car always slid forward in the same angle. Snap oversteer, but no instant spin - but nice 10 second drift instead. The instant spin is really easy to prevent, but catching a started slide seems impossible.

The more I play this game, the more I smile when thinking why am I playing LFS..

EDIT: yep, clarifies my opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmjJdaUXww

Are these the same guys driving in the vid who say that LFS online racing is filled with idiots?

Honestly, I'd ban 90% of those drivers, simply because..., well do I need to tell why? Hmm, it is just a shame that those great cars are used in such a mediocre piece of game...

Makes me kinda sad

Quote from BuddhaBing :

I do sometimes find myself wondering how the game would have turned out had SimBin/Blimey licensed the LFS engine instead of relying on ISI's.

We would have THE sim! Best physics engine so far with nice real life car and track models...

Quote from BuddhaBing :

Apparently Blimey will be using their own in-house race sim engine for their next title, Race, which depicts the WTCC series. Race is due to be released this November and I am very much looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

This is not correct: RACE is being developed by the new Simbin and not Blimey and it uses the (modified) ISI engine (rain effect from GTR2 is in for example)...
Blimey is indeed working on their own engine, but they haven't announced anything yet. We only know that the project is rund under the codename FALCON...

Quote from Hyperactive :

Are these the same guys driving in the vid who say that LFS online racing is filled with idiots?

Honestly, I'd ban 90% of those drivers, simply because..., well do I need to tell why? Hmm, it is just a shame that those great cars are used in such a mediocre piece of game...

Yes, it's a revealing video. Most of them seem to think they're playing a first-person shooter.

Bit off-topic, but I'm quite proud of my new sig.. :mischievo

Downloaded the demo...what a waste. I drove 2 laps and decided Gran Turismo 4 had better physics. The setup screen were confusing, too. I did keep the .mp3 that came with it, not a bad song.

There's something very strange going on with the tyre curves in GTR2. As a test, I set both of the longitudinal curves (braking and traction) to a flat line value of 1.0 across the entire range of slip ratios. The behaviour of the tyres under braking and acceleration in-game was not markedly different than using the stock curves. DropoffFunction is set to 0.0 to limit the amount the curve is shaped as the peak shifts under load. I know that the curves are modified for various loads and speeds using the modifier parameters in the .tyr definition file and I can only assume that those modifiers adjust the curve so much that the shape of the normalized curve doesn't really matter.

Is there any way (including a config file hack) that would allow me to assign mouse buttons (not mouse wheel) for shifting?

What an amazing damage engine! Didn't we see that kind of damage BACK IN GTA3???

lol, had to add that :P

Anyone thinks this is realistic? http://media.pc.ign.com/media/794/794327/vids_1.html

no

Nope.

Negative, sir!

don't care and we already have a topic for GTR2: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=10330

Depends what you mean by realistic. The physics aren't as realistic as LFS but the sounds & cockpits are a lot more realistic, and it has real cars/tracks which some people mean when talking about realism.

Yep, because engine noises created through changing the pitch of and filtering in and out of engine samples is realistic....

And only a fool would call a game "realistic" due to having "real" cars and tracks. Is Need for Speed realistic? Nuff said... :rolleyes:

Only a fool would be narrow minded enough to believe everyone shares their opinion. Everyone has varying standards of what is "realistic", why do you think GT4, Toca 3, GTR2 etc sell so well compared to sims like LFS? The physics aren't top notch and the cars don't really respond realistically but its close enough that combined with real cars/tracks for a lot of people the experience is more realistic on the whole. Even if the tyre slip curves or whatever aren't perfect and the sounds aren't generated on the fly.

So your saying the LFS sounds are more realistic GTR, or basically synth vs sampled? Well theres a seperate thread for this anyway, but the method is of course much better and the audio feedback is superior with LFS, but they don't sound like any cars I've ever heard. The cars in GTR actually sound like real cars, sampled or not its a more convincing illusion.

what is better gtr2 or lfs i was thinking of buying gtr2 today but but sure ????

Quote from Rtsbasic :

......why do you think GT4, Toca 3, GTR2 etc sell so well compared to sims like LFS?

Walmart shelves! (Or the equivilent to Walmart around the world.)

Quote from sully :

what is better gtr2 or lfs i was thinking of buying gtr2 today but but sure ????

What answer do you expect on a LFS forum?

But, of course, LFS is much better.