The online racing simulator
It's nice that with each update the modeler is getting better and better. Maybe it will be difficult to implement in a triangulated mesh, but Slide Points on edge, and edge slide on other edges sometimes is missing feature for me.

https://youtu.be/57FUdeOpetU
like that.
New update D13

Modeller:

E: extrude selected points (with trace enabled in point mode)
CTRL+F: flip selected triangles (in tri mode)
CTRL+F: flip connected triangles (in point mode)
Single click (no confirm) in "Select type of extrusion" dialog
Mouse control now works below 1cm from the plane (down to 1mm)
FIX: Crash on reload textures with no cutout or page selected

Vehicle editor:

CTRL+L: load
CTRL+N: new
And that would be cool to unify shortcuts even more to the blender as much as possible, and it's not because I've working in blender for 15 yearsBig grin, but because most of the modmakers who model mash themselves do it in the blender.

Editor mode selection:
SHIFT+S: subob
SHIFT+T: tri
SHIFT+P: point
SHIFT+B: build
SHIFT+M: map
SHIFT+C: cutout
SHIFT+G: page
SHIFT+V: view
S: select selection's points / select connected triangles
X: hide selected (points or triangles)
SHIFT+X: hide unselected
ALT+X: unhide all


It doesn't look to me a well unified for blender. I understand that you wanted to come up with new keyboard shortcuts for the first letter of operation like in blender, but this replaces some keys that could be used like in blender.

Basic Default Blender key shortcuts.

After selecting some mesh -
S - Scale
R - Rotate
G - Grab
E - Extrude
H - Hide
I - Insert
F - Make a Face (or edge, for point connection)
M - Merge points
X - Deliting mesh options (like dissolving with keeping geometry will be useful in blender (pic1))
J - Join point through mesh with straight line


that works with no selected mesh
A - Select all
B - Box selection
C - Brush selection (circle of selection that u can change size by mouse scroll)
Z - Changing view modes pie menu (ill use old fashon Z switch to wire\solid shading)
K - Knife (You just drawing a new join selection points over mesh)
T\N Show up or hide side menus (Modeler kinda have it, will be nice if they can be hide for screenshots or something.

Shift+R - Loop cut
Sfift+A - Add something (like mesh primitives or lights etc)
Shift+D - Dublicate selected mesh
Shift+N - Recalculate normals
Sfift+G - Select similar (edges, faces etc)

Ctrl+B for bevel (will be nice if modeler can do something like that)


the big advantage of blender is that it often uses axes in shortcuts

You can do in a free view for example S+Y+2 - and that scale selected mesh on Y axis in 2 times.
Or R+X+90 Rotate selected mesh on X axis on 90 degrees.

And blender also has mouse controls for many of these commands.
For example if you select point in blender G+X and mouse moving move that point on X axis.
It would be cool if you can do something similar in the modeler
Or you just can do select - S in a free view and everthing selected will be scaled by mouse move in all axis, and origin of scaling will be center of mesh by defoult but it can be chaged to something else (pic2))


To switch between modes I would choose - 1 For Subobject mode, 2 for triangle mode 3 for point mode, etc.
This seems to me the most intuitive way to switch between modes, in blender with nombers you switch between layers in collection. But it's debatable. Although the latest blender versions of blender Tab pie menu is used to switching between modes. But persanally ill choose old fashon Tab switch between Edite/Object mode.

With Alt in blender you do a opposite thing.

So if H - hide
Alt+H - unhide.
A - select all
Alt+A - clear selection

But all that makes little significance compared to the upcoming graphics and physics update, and we can still work in the modeller, so I hope that the developers are now focused on the more important update. Unification of the modeller can be done later.
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Thanks for that overview of some blender functions.

I'm sure we all agree that other work (tyre physics, at the moment) is more important. Still, when a bug is reported I want to fix the bug, then it seems a good time to add one or two long awaited features if they are quick to do.

I don't think LFS editor should try to become a clone of Blender, but we can certainly take a few tips from it and when possible use the same key for a similar function.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :T\N Show up or hide side menus (Modeler kinda have it, will be nice if they can be hide for screenshots or something.

There is SHIFT+F in the modeller which is consistent with hiding the HUD in game.

Quote from ivancsx :...my suggestion were M for "Fuse to Average", and alt+M for "Fuse to Green" since Shift+M already assigned with "Map" tab, because in Blender ... M were also assigned for fuse (or Merge in Blender menu says)

Or maybe.... can we have a dialog version just like when we tried to extrude points? Would be feel handy with only hotkey M, just like how E for Extrude were defined Big grin

A key for fuse/merge points seems to be a popular request. The code is very tiny, so this is really just a decision on keys.

M is already "select main object" so I'm not keen to copy Blender on that. But I understand ALT+M is also the key in blender. That is available in LFS. In blender it brings up a dialog on which type of merge, so we could have "merge to average" and "merge to green" in there if we use a dialog.

Or we could use two shortcuts CTRL+M and ALT+M for merge to average / merge to green. I don't know which way round it should be, or if the dialog popup is better.
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(Snoop.DriftEra) DELETED by Snoop.DriftEra : LFS Editor suggestions only thread, LFS Modeller suggestions only thread, LFS Mod system suggestions tread. Confusing......
- Saving selected points in every subobjects or main when you swapping between them. For example you choosing a bunch of points and accidentally clicked on subobj icon, you lost everything, or make at least a dialog message box “You lost every selected points if you choose this object. Continue?”

- Selection range of facial triangles. If I need to choose some triangles I select it with RMB and generally I need only that triangle which closer to me (not everyone facing to me).

- Restrict viewport with a grid on the floor. Or restrict it only for mouse dragging, when you missed the point and click on ground far away your view moving there, restrict it with grid and leave moving camera with buttons on keyboard (maybe someone need it) plus add to settings in main menu speed of camera moving.

- “Scale from green point” do on slider. Do it on endless slider (it’s like you dragging it to the left and hold -it goes to negative value, once you release slider goes to the center, need make it bigger, drag slider to the right, that’s how I see it) Usable for making radius of circles.

- Moving point directly on the surface of quads. For example you select quad (two connected tris in one plane) after this you able to move point in this square. So it doesn’t matter how tilt this plane, point moving only on the surface of quad.

- Working with backgrounds. Would be nice if we will able to do opacity, rotating, duplication, adding photos with aspects other than square.

- Visible bounding box in 2d. Making it and see from all perspectives, makes sense when you making some model with reference background.

- Remove “New” and “Load” hotkeys and do it for some usable binds. To be honest is here really someone needs quickly make a whole new vehicle or load another? Especially when we have these buttons always in the left bottom corner.

- Add “Info” tab next to the “View” at the top of screen with ALL available hotkeys. Maybe for something more.



— Offtop

- Add visible driver to editor like add button next to the “Show main”, “Show subobs” etc.

- Add default cutouts for strobe. It’s more like offtop but if we have /siren command in game, can we have /strobe with same parameters? In editor add two default mappings (same as l_head, l_find etc) call it “l_strb1” and “l_strb2”. Logic of it is blinking same speed as siren. These mappings paintable so everyone can make any strobes that they want.

- Make a visible “forces” for aerodynamic parameters, like when you moving this slider with “Side drag” it shows visible arrows of aero influence on vehicle, so you can clearly see where you put your sub and what it do with your car. Estimate speed convert to the max km/h or show two values.
Quote from Ho4Hou_KoT :- Selection range of facial triangles. If I need to choose some triangles I select it with RMB and generally I need only that triangle which closer to me (not everyone facing to me).

Since test patch 0.7D8, you can select or deselect multiple triangles by holding down CTRL and LMB - move the mouse to nearby triangles to keep selecting or deselecting.
Editor Test Patch D14

CTRL+O: load main object in modeller
CTRL+O: load vehicle (was CTRL+L in D13)
ALT+M: Merge points (previously known as Fuse points)
New feature to merge points by distance (in ALT+M dialog)
FIX: Crash on reload textures in map mode / wireframe view

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102626
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(Facu23) DELETED by Facu23 : moved it, again
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(Scawen) DELETED by Scawen : ok, thanks!
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(Facu23) DELETED by Scawen : ok, thanks!
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(Scawen) DELETED by Scawen : decided what to do
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(Scawen) DELETED by Scawen : no longer needed post about the new threads
This post is part of one list from my notepad splitted into three separate topics:
LFS Suggestions
LFS Modeller Suggestions
LFS Editor Suggestions

LFSM:
1. Add: REDO UNDO! For selected points, items, actions (It's sad to lose changes). I've seen the reply
2. Add: Free scale whole model with mappings by ANY axis.
3. Fix: Texture page 1 pixel bug. Found in 0.6U earlier, confirmed as an overall LFS enviorment bug in 0.7+ (Example below in screenies).
4. Fix: LMB/RMB small/big (0.010/0.001) values adjustments are inverted:
a)Object position values
b)Point position values
c)Map locate/rotate values
5. Add: Multiple maps for same light map e.g. "l_tail1, l_tail2, l_tail3....l_tail9" (therefore no need for side/top maps + more light variations possible).
6. Add: Hi beam + Low beam lights separated.
7. Fix: Chat text overlaps and hides the mesh points. (Also would be nice to have it smaller and LESS annoying while you work on other things leaving highlited bugs for later fix).Someone mentioned before.

Questionable, but I'll share anyway:
10. Add: Fit mapping box by mesh boundaries in chosen view. (As in LFSCarImp - "Fit Material", not sure you ever tried LFSCImp (it was very useful but limited only by FRONT TOP LEFT RIGHT BOTTOM views), but anyway "Three points" way doesn't work right now on complicated shapes e.g. "8"-shaped model).

Note: I understand it can't be made by the finger click. I just shared some enhancements I would do if I could.
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It would be nice if we could delete tris by deleting the points directly without having to go to tri and then back to point mode.
Quote from Evolution_R :It would be nice if we could delete tris by deleting the points directly without having to go to tri and then back to point mode.

A point can be used by more than one LOD model or by triangles in hidden layers. This means it would have to remove all those triangles as well. Maybe there could be confirmation dialog before deleting the point, warning about this.

If you just want to delete tris used by one or more selected points, a quick way is to press S (select connected triangles) and press Delete.
Hello, I come again to put some suggestion here

Soooooo I just working on derivatives mod for a while, and I think we just missing out function to hide-unhide subobjects

For me, it's same crucial just like how we hide-unhide tris and points, so when we working on specific subobject, we can hide the other subobject that overlapping our view to recent subobject that we working on

Also, could we have options to merge 2 subobjects, beside merge sub to main which already exist?
Quote from ivancsx :Hello, I come again to put some suggestion here

Soooooo I just working on derivatives mod for a while, and I think we just missing out function to hide-unhide subobjects

For me, it's same crucial just like how we hide-unhide tris and points, so when we working on specific subobject, we can hide the other subobject that overlapping our view to recent subobject that we working on

Also, could we have options to merge 2 subobjects, beside merge sub to main which already exist?

I would also like to have this feature. Sometimes I switch between multiple subobjects and do multiple small changes to each of them, but I don't want to get distracted by other subobjects. Technically, I could save a subobject, open it in Modeller, make changes, save it, then load it again through Vehicle editor, but that sounds too time consuming.

Something like a "single subobject mode" which would only show triangles and points of the currently selected subobject would be nice. Or the ability to hide/unhide a subobject sounds good too.
Quote from ivancsx :........... I think we just missing out function to hide-unhide subobjects.........

Yeah. Would be great. I dream of a list with sububject names (as we have in maps or cutouts, for example) and have a button to the side of it that hides/unhides.
I like the idea of hiding subobjects and making that work like it does for triangles and points. I assume you would like the selection button and the visible model to disappear at once.

I also like the idea of merging subobjects. I think the key to this is to first allow multiple subobject selection, which could also be helpful when hiding objects or if you wanted to delete a few, move two subobjects together, etc.

(I like a lot of the other suggestions too but these seemed relevant to my point about multiple subobject object selection).

For now, I have added the often requested "named subobjects" in Test Patch D15, along with a vehicle editor crash fix.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102626
Hello, I dont know where to ask if this normal, or bug, but let me break down the questions into 2 posts

First one, I tried to change S_PLATE_ALP to different mode, from ALPHA TEST and TREE EDGE ALPHA, whenever I exit from modeller, it resets to ALPHA only, is this bug or what?

why I test this, because in-game, I found out, when seeing that lettering I made, it doesnt show up when I'm viewing it from the exterior, but when in interior I could see it, I'm also seeing this differences both on Editor (LFSE general), 3D modeller mode, and in-game, which in 3D modeller it looks fine, but in Editor and in-game, the anomaly happens

this one might be minor, because I think it wont affect anything technically, but I just wanted to make sure this aint bug, this is just normal on recent graphical system only, I'm on modeller test patch D14 right now

I'm scratching my head many times, thinking if "am I done making those lettering double-sided? or I missed that?" but I just realized it's already double-sided
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second and last, again, is this normal we cannot move or resize S_PLATE_ALP cutout? I have tried many times to resize it, but I just realized, whenever I drag the edge or center point on the cutout, it being reset to original place like what I've been screenshot it.

I think on LFSE earlier build, this isnt happen, that's why I'm asking if is this normal (and intended, since this are license plate, to get full fledge alphanumeric character), or this kind of bug
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Quote from ivancsx :First one, I tried to change S_PLATE_ALP to different mode, from ALPHA TEST and TREE EDGE ALPHA, whenever I exit from modeller, it resets to ALPHA only, is this bug or what?

This one might be just a LFS rendering quirk with regards to multiple surfaces requiring alpha blending
Quote from ivancsx :First one, I tried to change S_PLATE_ALP to different mode, from ALPHA TEST and TREE EDGE ALPHA, whenever I exit from modeller, it resets to ALPHA only, is this bug or what?

It's not really a bug, but an issue caused by a rare case of an ALPHA surface writing to the Z-buffer, which is necessary for the car windows, for reasons I won't describe in detail here (to stop painted lines on roads behind the car appearing in front of the windows - a strange effect). Transparency is always annoying to deal with, because of the necessity to draw transparent surfaces in the correct order. Sometimes perfect solutions aren't practical, so we need a compromise.

I don't think it's possible to get around it, I tried changing the draw order but I see that LFS moves the s_plate_alp textures to the end of the list. I think I did that to prevent the alpha numbers messing up the look of the windows.

I think it's best to accept the anomaly and not worry about it, as it will rarely be noticed.

Quote from ivancsx :second and last, again, is this normal we cannot move or resize S_PLATE_ALP cutout? I have tried many times to resize it, but I just realized, whenever I drag the edge or center point on the cutout, it being reset to original place like what I've been screenshot it.

This is because each number plate texture has up to four number plates on it (shared between different players) so LFS automatically positions the cutout to the right place.

As far as I can understand, you shouldn't need to adjust the cutout because you can adjust the mapping instead.
Quote from Scawen :It's not really a bug...

Ahh okay okay, I assume it's all normal then, Thankyou for explanations Sir 😄
Quote from Scawen :... I assume you would like the selection button and the visible model to disappear at once.

I've been thinking about control over hide-unhide subobject like in example in photoshop layers (pict 1), a toggle to hide or unhide one or some layers with eye icon checkbox, or hide-unhide folder with button like "select all" checkbox in windows explorer (pict 2) will do

but judging from how LFSE top-left menu looks like, I think it's quite tricky for you to put some layout to enable those control, but I hope you get the ideas about hide-unhide one or some subobjects and figured out how to implement that Big grin

havent tried to mess around with subobject names in D15 after updating, but the positioning pretty neat I would say, less confusing too because it's arranged by vertical lists, instead "too many A" buttons Big grin
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(Snoop.DriftEra) DELETED by Snoop.DriftEra : Double post. I apologize.
D18 and D19 updates:


Changes in 0.7D18: (2 April 2023)

New function "invert" to invert selection (selected - unselected)
Point merge options now on one line and includes distance merge

Improved merge by distance to update every second if merge is long
- you can watch the progress and stop at any time by pressing ESC

Improved handling of bad normals and some of the reasons for them
- triangles that are too small or too thin are separately listed
- triangles as small as 1/3 of a millimetre can contribute normals


Changes in 0.7D19: (5 April 2023)

Hotkey for "hide/unhide (un)selected" changed from X to H (like blender)
- small H button at top left to hide/show message history (old H function)

Left click increments should now always be smaller than right click
- previously this was not consistent for all types of buttons
- as before, CTRL may do smaller steps, SHIFT may do larger steps
- this change should apply to distance, colour, angle and scale

Find button for error triangles or points now selects all as expected
- previously only selected the first point or triangle in the list
Would it be possible to hide points in points mode that are not visible. Just like triangles arent all visible. Because its super hard to select separate points if you want to set ambient darkness on them. Its like working with x-ray enabled on blender.
Quote from Drifteris :...

I have a two tricks:
1. Select the part you want to work and move the tris to a free layer.
When its ready take it back to original layer.

2. If you dont have free layers:
Select the part you want to work on by selecting the triangles using groups mode for example, clock on 'hide unselected'(tris) , select tris again with ctrl+right mouse drag or press A to select all, click on 'select selections points' and again click on 'hide unselected'(points) - and you have it.
Quote from ivo_drifta :I have a two tricks:
1. Select the part you want to work and move the tris to a free layer.
When its ready take it back to original layer.

2. If you dont have free layers:
Select the part you want to work on by selecting the triangles using groups mode for example, clock on 'hide unselected'(tris) , select tris again with ctrl+right mouse drag or press A to select all, click on 'select selections points' and again click on 'hide unselected'(points) - and you have it.

I mean ye its an option but it would be easier if i didnt have to do all that extra work. I cant imagine modeling in permanent xray mode in blender. With complex models it would be really confusing.
Quote from Drifteris :Would it be possible to hide points in points mode that are not visible. Just like triangles arent all visible. Because its super hard to select separate points if you want to set ambient darkness on them. Its like working with x-ray enabled on blender.

I also asked this during early testing and I got this answer from Scawen:

Quote from Scawen :It's hard to make them auto-hide as the point buttons aren't rendered in 3D space so don't have the use of the z-buffer and even if they did, the interface wouldn't know if you were clicking on a button that was occluded or not.

But the usual thing is to manually hide the point buttons you don't want to see - select points and click "hide selected". Then "unhide all" when you want them again. There is a similar function for triangles.


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