Quote from nihil :

(just go and have a look at the drawings that were done prior to producing the Montjuich track...).

You bring up a really good point Nihil. The Montjuich track took 6 years from conception to completion. Granted it had a few hiccups and periods of inaction along the way, but they did finish it, and it's an amazing track. Then look at all the work thats gone into Monaco Rocks, how long has that been in evolution 4/5 years, and the last time i checked they were still adding bits to it, there was even talk of MR 3. Then you consider Jim Pearson's tracks (it is Jim isn't it ?) How long does he spend on each track ?, hundreds if not thousands of hours.

Do we really have modders here that are willing to put that much time, effort and passion into building just one track ? I'm not doubting the talent we've got here, just questioning the sheer effort that would be required to reproduce a real world track to near perfection to keep the naysayers happy (no names, no pack drill,not pointing a finger at anyone, ok)

Ugh, i could go on and on with this, but most points, issues, reasons for and against etc etc have already been discussed ad nauseam.

To sum up, GPL has been both greatly improved and in some respects hindered by good and bad mods, and that goes for almost any game you can think of. If you've ever had the "pleasure" of the F4 "dance" you'll know how much of a complete pain in the arse it is to scour the net desperately looking for all the extra bits and pieces just to get the game working properly, and to a lesser degree the same applies for Rfactor, and to an extent the same with GPL. If LFS ever got to that stage i think it'll be time to ask my father to have a look in his loft to see if my old scalextric track's still there

I would love real tracks in LFS, but if it means ripping the heart and soul out of the game, then no, it's to much to pay

When i say soul, i mean the community, just look at the fragmented nature of the Rfactor and GPL communities, lets not go there with LFS please.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can accept that some people want the emotional attachment of racing on a known track. These are the people who will never go racing themselves I reckon.

I'm not really talking about emotional attachment, but saying that if the physics are modelled from 'real life', then it only benefits the track design if it is modelled from real landscape. It doesn't even have to be an officially sanctioned track; perhaps a local road that is dressed up to be a track.

As an artist myself I can tell when things have been cooked up from fantasy. There are parts of LFS tracks (in South City for example) that ring the 'real' bell when I drive them. But there are many more parts that just say 'this is second rate fantasy', and it breaks the spell for me every time.

Quote :

Why do people use the monitor excuse?

Because too many people round here bandy the word 'real' around like some sacred totem.

EDIT:
Something I've noticed about LFS tracks is that the reverse layouts often have lots more interesting stuff going on in them. This, I suspect, is because the maker works in a fairly linear manner... The reverse layout isn't subect to his conscious intentions. Real landscape isn't either... That's why I think it would be better.

That's a good point.

Decent tracks in real life are formed AROUND the scenery, rather than the other way around. It's one of the reasons why Tilke can't do good tracks - he's too busy forming the landscape around his track. Was it Turkey that he used what was there? And that's why it's his best track.

Maybe in the future Eric can start off with a 'random landscape generator'. Then model the track around that.

I do agree that the LFS reverse tracks are often more demanding and exciting. SO1r is much more exciting than SO1. But is that because, in my case, I know SO1 so much better?

Quote from tristancliffe :

But is that because, in my case, I know SO1 so much better?

Familiarity may be an issue, but to look at other tracks: Blackwood reversed - a blind crest before a left/right combo? As turn one? Genius. Kyoto reversed: just after the long curve there's a deceptive little complex before you go under the bridge, through which you really have to judge your speed carefully. And I never fail to enjoy that blind and twisty downhill section. Kyoto forwards: ...Hmmm... Its ok....

Always a good debate this one.

I'd love to see real tracks in LFS but if they don't come I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

But just to take android's points:


- They'd never be 100% accurate, so they'd always create moaning and complaining of some sort

You always get wingers regarding anything in life. This will be no different.


- Requests for real cars will skyrocket so people can compare real laptimes to ingame ones so they can finally "measure the realism"

Again, who cares? They can request all they like.


- Even without real cars, people will compare laptimes with whatever car comes closest and base physics realism on that

As has already been discussed this could actually work out in LFS's favour.

Eh one thing for sure i wouldnt want mazdas or fords or any real road car on the game.. the mrt/rac/bf1 ruins it enough... its just kills LFS imo.. having a made up sae car, race about car and f1 car would be 100 times better imo =).

note i use the acronym "IMO", when i talk about real stuff ruining LFS, thats my opinion, not the truth or the fact *slips off anti-flame helmet to check if clear*

Quote from tristancliffe :

From my own point of view, having the turns about the right radius isn't enough (and that's as close as ANY track in a game has got to reality so far). 99% of the challenges of a track are in the details, none of which have been modelled as yet.

Interesting to see if iRacing will change this with their laser scanning or whatever it's called.

We'll see about iRacing... when it arrives...

I don't think rFactor will get it right. They struggle with gravity, so how are they going to cope with geometry?

LFS will have temperature and humidity, and all the other stuff your ellipsis meant, you mark my words. Not this week. Not this year. But one day. Other games, with the possible exception of nKP, are too interested in the bottom line to bother doing stuff right, preferring to do stuff quickly. Whilst there is no doubting the ISI engine has vastly more content, all of it is of questionable quality - either because the mods are rushed (M3 Challenge), or because the underlying engine is shit. Even Niels has given up because of the limitations that the ISI engine imposes.

I'm sure there will be recreations of real Tracks in LFS.

The Problem is we will not see that until S3 is finished and Modding is possible, which could easily be two, three or even four years away, no one knows.

I used to not really care for RL tracks, but having some exposure to 'real' tracks in GTR2 has kindof whet my appetite. Sure, they mightn't be %100 accurate, or even %60, but you get an idea. With the right attitude (this is a fantasy track based on something real) I've had a lot of fun with the default GTR2 tracks, and some of the more decent add-ons too.

In comparison, I certainly don't see how they could be any worse than purely fictional tracks, and there's something attractive about driving a RL circuit that isn't there with the fictional tracks. I guess that feeling's about knowing your experience to be based on something concrete, however limited or distorted it may actually be (I'm sure for others, like Tristan, it's more a source of frustration than anything else, which I totally appreciate). Anyway, I've started wondering about the history of certain tracks, and I've also felt regretful that I'm so ignorant about motorsport in general and the legends and the great historical moments that have happened at these places. I keep wanting to find out more about the tracks I'm visiting virtually.

Of course, the better you're able to recreate a track, the better the experience. I really wonder now about the possibility of getting a track 'right' inside a computer. It's likely years away, a distant goal, but it's a tantalising prospect. Seems as if iRacing is the only team around at the moment really committed to pursuing the evolution of this idea.

Well guys.. from all of the discussion about real tracks on LFS or not, all I can see is that we have few options...

1) Ask FIA to go for building real tracks based on LFS tracks
2) Ask developers to look for an additional track based on a real one (Imola? Interlagos? etc)
3) Forget this subject

I personally would really like to try one real based track on LFS... and then evaluate. As a motorsport fanatic person, this would really be nice just to have the feeling of driving (virtually wise) on a know famous F1 track! But, even if this is not available I will keep going and surviving...

I'd love to have the Ghost House track from the first mario kart in LFS
I

Quote from Maelstrom :

I'd love to have the Ghost House track from the first mario kart in LFS
I

Including the jumps?

I agree... let´s also have Mario as available driver!

personally, once the 2 new maps, texture and physics updates come out, a lot more people will start playing the game and popularity will probably rise, this way the creators might get encouraged to buy famous tracks like spa, silverstone, nordeschleife, monza, sao paolo, le mans, and so on

Wow, this was quite the necromanced thread. 2008 to 2023.

Quote from Dygear :

Wow, this was quite the necromanced thread. 2008 to 2023.

Yeah. It's kinda facinating to see what replies aged like milk and which aged like wine.