optional of course

would love to be able to feel the front wheels losing grip from understeer, more feeling of the road surface and its changes, and perhaps a better center pull feeling in the feedback, there seems to be a sloppy point as it is right now, I dont notice this in other sims. Also it would be nice if we could edit the force feedback, Id like to setup my feedback to have a tighter feel for centering forces, but loose when bringing the wheel around from oversteer or a drift, right now when the feedback is turned up high, the centering force is tight, but really stiff when turning the wheel back from oversteer/counter steer, it should be way looser feeling like it is in a real vechicle.

any opinions?

Canned means it'll eventually be removed.
So no thanks, it'd be devtime wasted.

Not gonna happen

The force at the moment is driven by the physics engine from the forces that act on the front wheels and these are trasmitted up to your wheel. Same as RBR and NKP

This means you can't adjust the feel of the FF because the FF does not know about oversteer and understeer or centering etc, it just gets rotational information.

You can feel subtle understeer effects in LFS and in power on understeer in FWD the wheel does go loose as IRL.

BTW, The floppy understeer effect in ISI sims is just wrong and does not happen like this IRL. You will find many here will resist any "effects" like this being added because we would prefer better FF through better physics over a bodge every time.

Quote from steve :

would love to be able to feel the front wheels losing grip from understeer

Already can

Quote from steve :

more feeling of the road surface and its changes

Can you in real life on a race circuit at racing speeds? The MOST I'd like here is some sort of speed/slip angle based high frequency oscillation, but it wouldn't tell you anything...

Quote from steve :

a better center pull feeling in the feedback

I can have so much centering forces my arms get tired! how much more do you want?

Quote from steve :

there seems to be a sloppy point as it is right now

Where? My wheel feels pretty good within the limits of FFB technology

Quote from steve :

Id like to setup my feedback to have a tighter feel for centering forces

Mine does that

Quote from steve :

but loose when bringing the wheel around from oversteer or a drift

Mine DEFINITELY does that, even countersteers automatically.

I think you've either not set up your steering properly, or you're not in tune enough with LFS to feel it.

^^ what he said It's all there, just have to tweak your FFB.

Between my car and LFS understeer is roughly the same and behaves roughly the same, they are not going to be the same or feel the same because of the G'force factor I think. It also helps to have racing seats in your car so you actually don't slide around in the seat, that will make a huge difference too least it does for me. There is so much more you can feel when your actually planted in front of the wheel and not sliding around on the seat, even an inch or two makes a big difference.

Stoner Steve always loves to bring this topic up, EVEN if he says he has tried everything :rolleyes:

Feeling understeer to him is like having the wheel move about 90 degrees to the side and feel all loose :zombie: (At least that is how other games percieve "understeer" effects)

Quote from Tweaker :

Stoner Steve always loves to bring this topic up, EVEN if he says he has tried everything :rolleyes:

Feeling understeer to him is like having the wheel move about 90 degrees to the side and feel all loose :zombie: (At least that is how other games percieve "understeer" effects)

LOL well it most definatly is NOT like that, I think the XFR does a wonderful job with understeer, though I do feel as a whole all sim racing sims cannot depict the actual tire grabbing the road (IE the rubber filling in the microscopic holes in the concrete) and that is where some of the issues with the tires are coming up, but thats OT =)

IF you are understeering with a movement of 90% plus then you have issues with grip management, I can get my car to understeer like that, and I have in LFS, but why, thats way more steering input than you need or want.

Wish I could comment, but I don't drive yet!

lol I drive different cars and race cars all the time, and when I push them to the limits when steering, and the car starts to understeer, I can feel it, especially when the front wheels start hopping, and when recovering from severe understeer the wheel snaps back into place really hard, unlike LFS.

Better FF would be nice.
Personally it sometimes seems like the 'uncompromising' development process hinders in a number of situations, FF potentially being one of them. Sometimes important effects just can't be 'simulated' as well as they can be 'canned'...

that said, the FF in LFS is pretty damn good. Just not perfect

If you drive race cars and get front wheel hopping (which is when you turn about 300% too much) then you need driving lessons mate. I can feel understeer in real life (in road and race cars also), and I can feel it in LFS - I know the EXACT moment understeer begins and ends, and I know the magnitude and variation throughout. I can feel the sidewall flex.

Whether that is through the steering wheel or not is a different matter, in both real life and LFS - I have a feeling the the g-forces, sound, body roll, steering feel and visual perception all play a very large part in both real life and LFS.

Quote from tristancliffe :

If you drive race cars and get front wheel hopping (which is when you turn about 300% too much) then you need driving lessons mate. I can feel understeer in real life (in road and race cars also), and I can feel it in LFS - I know the EXACT moment understeer begins and ends, and I know the magnitude and variation throughout. I can feel the sidewall flex.

Whether that is through the steering wheel or not is a different matter, in both real life and LFS - I have a feeling the the g-forces, sound, body roll, steering feel and visual perception all play a very large part in both real life and LFS.

umm I do it in different vechicles in a controlled environment for testing on how different each vechicle feels through the steering wheel. Ever try going really fast around a corner when understeering then start to brake, while trying to keep the wheel in the same spot the whole time, the wheels will starting to hop and shake the crap out of the front end, you can feel it on the steering wheel.

Quote from steve :

umm I do it in different vechicles in a controlled environment for testing on how different each vechicle feels through the steering wheel. Ever try going really fast around a corner when understeering then start to brake, while trying to keep the wheel in the same spot the whole time, the wheels will starting to hop and shake the crap out of the front end, you can feel it on the steering wheel.

Then your car is crap, if the car is chattering and bouncing then your doing something wrong and/or the suspension/tires cannot handle what your attempting. When I understeer the wheel in my car goes light and dead and I can put a good 30-50% of input changes in and the car will do nothing, no wheel hop, no nothing.
The return is almost as violent in LFS as it is in RL but I think that has to do with the limitations on how fast the FFB wheels can turn per second, and not to do with LFS.

Quote from steve :

Ever try going really fast around a corner when understeering then start to brake, while trying to keep the wheel in the same spot the whole time, the wheels will starting to hop and shake the crap out of the front end, you can feel it on the steering wheel.

Nope, why would I want to do something that is stupid, dangerous and causes excess wear whilst slowing you down??? If I brake round a corner I will change the steering to suit. In fact I'd go so far as to say I don't think I could force myself to drive that badly

I have trouble explaining stuff in general, and now that Ive read my posts over there not making sense to me, lol just forget about them, I suck at explaining.