I understand people here being frustrated. I myself am awaiting S3 eagerly, but I'm not going to kill myself if it never gets released.
But I even understand more why they don't involve us anymore in the process.

Image you said to a friend: "Wouldn't it be a good idea if I made a chair that could fly?" And suddenly you get 1000-10 000 phone calls a day asking about the flying chair, while you never intended to really build it.

I think this is what they are trying to avoid. Especially after Scirocco and Rockingham leaked to the crowd. They told us what they may intend and all we can do is ask when it will be ready. Then they try pleasing us with pending release. But we keep on b*tching in the same way we are doing now.(ok it never got released, but under the legit reason they didn't think it was good enough for us.) So now they just think it's easier to keep us in the dark I guess, so we can't start moaning about new "unreleased" stuff.

A frustrating approach perhaps, but I think we brought this on our own.
Let the Devs just worry about developing instead of getting badly unmotivated every time they look at these forums.
Look at how much you have to pay for Iracing alpha or beta. LFS isn't near that expensive so you shouldn't be b*tching about new content. You already got what you payed for.

Quote from Speedster23 :

3 years later...still waiting on VW lol....

LFS has gone downhill, simple. Or, at least for some of us it has. My blind guess would be that maybe a quarter or even a half the people active in LFSForum don't probably even play the sim anymore...

Quote from lolzol :

I understand people here being frustrated. I myself am awaiting S3 eagerly, but I'm not going to kill myself if it never gets released.
But I even understand more why they don't involve us anymore in the process.

Image you said to a friend: "Wouldn't it be a good idea if I made a chair that could fly?" And suddenly you get 1000-10 000 phone calls a day asking about the flying chair, while you never intended to really build it.

I think this is what they are trying to avoid. Especially after Scirocco and Rockingham leaked to the crowd. They told us what they may intend and all we can do is ask when it will be ready. Then they try pleasing us with pending release. But we keep on b*tching in the same way we are doing now.(ok it never got released, but under the legit reason they didn't think it was good enough for us.) So now they just think it's easier to keep us in the dark I guess, so we can't start moaning about new "unreleased" stuff.

A frustrating approach perhaps, but I think we brought this on our own.
Let the Devs just worry about developing instead of getting badly unmotivated every time they look at these forums.
Look at how much you have to pay for Iracing alpha or beta. LFS isn't near that expensive so you shouldn't be b*tching about new content. You already got what you payed for.

I guess u spoke in general and not against me. Cause if u spoke to me u havnt understand what i mean.
Its no the new content(even tho it would be nice after 3 years...), its not about getting something revolutionary, no, its about the lack of info.
Ure example about the flying chair is good. But its childish.
Atleast all IM asking about is just some info about whats happening. And if they dont want us, SAY THAT THEN.
Example:
"We prepare tyers ... status is now on this level bla bla and thats about that, no more questions, its a secret wink wink nudge nudge etc"
Why not this? Instead of people speculating falsly, ppl getting bored, ppl getting mad, ppl quitting etc etc.
Its just so ...unproffesional? Idk what word i want to use.

Tip: Make 5 new cars(hard idk, dont tell me its to hard to just swing something up. I have faith in the devs that they can do anything ) and charge ...1dollar for each car or something? That would booooost income in a hurry. And if u dont wanna make money, ure stupid!

Quote from werd :

Tip: Make 5 new cars(hard idk, dont tell me its to hard to just swing something up. I have faith in the devs that they can do anything ) and charge ...1dollar for each car or something? That would booooost income in a hurry. And if u dont wanna make money, ure stupid!

You can call this childish too.

Goal of team Scavier was never to make money this way. If you don't know that by now you didn't research correctly.

Also more cars are not of ANY use. Thats the problem, they want to release real world cars but these cars nowhere feel like real. Scawen is blaming tire physics for that and want this sorted because all real world cars depend on these tire characteristics.

What can be done though is releasing more (real) tracks and somehow this is not happening.

I simply moved to iRacing until something happens here in LFS.

LFS is well worth the money, and will buy S3, but got tired of current state of the sim.

Quote from cargame.nl :

You can call this childish too.

Goal of team Scavier was never to make money this way. If you don't know that by now you didn't research correctly.

Also more cars are not of ANY use. Thats the problem, they want to release real world cars but these cars nowhere feel like real. Scawen is blaming tire physics for that and want this sorted because all real world cars depend on these tire characteristics.

What can be done though is releasing more (real) tracks and somehow this is not happening.

First off: It was a tip, not what i believe scawen is wanting out of this. And yes, i know money hasnt been... uhm, top priority so dont cast a shade of me not knowing anything
And idk how making money can be childish...

And look... Theres the thing, why isnt there any sort of answer to some questions? Are we pesty rats who are nagging and nagging?
How do one stop the nagging? BY ANSWERING!

...im gonna stop there cause more ppl are gonna think im one of those r-tard kids whos nagging for new cars, new this, new that...
Idk if its the language barrier but is it THAT much/TO much to ask for some simple answers, status updates etc...
Im not saying they are lazy, im not saying they suck, im not saying they are doing other unimportant stuff, no nothing. Cause we simple dont rly know what is happening... (yes tyers yaddida...)

obvious iracing fanboy is obvious

As far as I heard a while ago, Scawen mostly made the new tyre physic. A few months ago still, the main concern was to optimize it so you wouldn't need an alien rig to use it at a good rate. I'm sure he wants this patch out ASAP more than anyone else. One major reason why LFS is still alive today imo is the dynamism of the physic and the quality of the whole game. This same philosophy must be the reason why this patch is taking so long, but it's nowhere 3 years, other updates came out since then to ease the wait.

To answer Werd, yes, he did explained many times reasons why the patch has been delayed. I guess he just stopped repeating it over and over again every time the "slow development process" question was raised, so he could focus on working instead of wasting considerable times here, on a pessimistic topic.

Always keep in mind that waiting for a patch is hard, coding it is much, much harder.

Quote from Skytrill :

As far as I heard a while ago, Scawen mostly made the new tyre physic. A few months ago still, the main concern was to optimize it so you wouldn't need an alien rig to use it at a good rate. I'm sure he wants this patch out ASAP more than anyone else. One major reason why LFS is still alive today imo is the dynamism of the physic and the quality of the whole game. This same philosophy must be the reason why this patch is taking so long, but it's nowhere 3 years, other updates came out since then to ease the wait.

To answer Werd, yes, he did explained many times reasons why the patch has been delayed. I guess he just stopped repeating it over and over again every time the "slow development process" question was raised, so he could focus on working instead of wasting considerable times here, on a pessimistic topic.

Always keep in mind that waiting for a patch is hard, coding it is much, much harder.

I agree, and on that note i reckon this thread should be closed as it is not going any were, S3 will be here when it gets here!

I'll doubt I will be interested in another 2-3 years.

Let alone, in 20 years

Quote from werd :

...And look... Theres the thing, why isnt there any sort of answer to some questions? Are we pesty rats who are nagging and nagging?
How do one stop the nagging? BY ANSWERING!

Nope, thats BS.

The only way to stop nagging (apart from violence) is to ignore it !

If Scawen answered the nagging, it just teaches you pesky rats that nagging is the way to get what you want, so you would do it even more - it's called "positive reinforcement".

Interesting. Give me an example where non communication worked out good in the end.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Interesting. Give me an example where non communication worked out good in the end.

People freaked out yesterday because they couldn't use twitter for a few hours. In an age where communication is instant, saying a few words about the progress can go a long way. It has been a year since we last heard anything about the progress of the tyre physics. Surely there has been a lot of progress in 1 years time. Are we down to optimization only? Are we close to a test patch? Are we set back 5 years time because the last 4 years of work was for nothing? These are a few things that could be answered that might help give everyone an idea as to the state of the work being done.

Quote from col :

Nope, thats BS.

The only way to stop nagging (apart from violence) is to ignore it !

If Scawen answered the nagging, it just teaches you pesky rats that nagging is the way to get what you want, so you would do it even more - it's called "positive reinforcement".

You're full of shit, are you really trying to say that it is so out of order for Scawen to take 5 minutes of his time and write a paragraph to all the people who gave him a shit load of money?

Quote from cargame.nl :

Interesting. Give me an example where non communication worked out good in the end.

Interesting. Give me an example where endless negativity about something you care about worked out good in the end.

Quote from DeKo :

You're full of shit, are you really trying to say that it is so out of order for Scawen to take 5 minutes of his time and write a paragraph to all the people who gave him a shit load of money?

lol, I'm obviously not saying that DeKo. I'm clearly saying that giving in to nagging won't make the nagging stop, it will make it worse. It is a generally accepted and universally applicable concept of psychology.

Quote from col :

lol, I'm obviously not saying that DeKo. I'm clearly saying that giving in to nagging won't make the nagging stop, it will make it worse. It is a generally accepted and universally applicable concept of psychology.

Do you have something to prove this? I'm pretty sure you are throwing around a personal psychology concept whereas industrial and organizational psychology is much much different.

Quote from edge3147 :

Do you have something to prove this? I'm pretty sure you are throwing around a personal psychology concept whereas industrial and organizational psychology is much much different.

(EDIT: what's happening on this forum isn't industrial or organizational psychology, it's just personal psychology within a group/social context. The concept of positive reinforcement is entirely appropriate)


Werd claimed that if Scawen answered the nagging, then the nagging would stop. That is obviously not the case.
When Scawen gives out information, people naturally want more information, and there are loads of questions and demands because he's just been active on the forum - everyone thinks he's listening.
If he doesn't then take even more time out to answer these new questions, they get all agressive on his ass for not communicating, If he does answer them, then there will be even more questions and demands.
I think it got to the point years ago when Scawen decided that this process was causing more problems than it was solving for the dev team, so they changed their approach. It's sad really, but totally understandable IMO.

Quote from col :

If he doesn't then take even more time out to answer these new questions, they get all agressive on his ass for not communicating, If he does answer them, then there will be even more questions and demands.

Welcome to management and business 101. Demands and questions by your consumers is an expected part of being in business. When you provide someone a product that isn't completed or is lacking things that consumers want, you must learn to adapt (rather quickly) or you find yourself losing customers and generating negative feedback. Patience wears thin especially when you leave people in the dark for years.

Poor devs.

I would like to point out that last reports were rather... identical . By reading them, it seams like it's all in one place, and Scawen is not moving forward. Questions? Sure there are a lots of them, but all I would need is not a text(ctrl+c,ctrl+v) from last year, but a proof. A bloody video.. or something like this, so we can really believe(as believing is right now a big problem)... and at least droll over it for a week , and i hope he is not giving us false hope by saying that "they are working on it".

Quote from rockclan :

Poor devs.

Yeah, Poor devs. They clearly give that little of a **** about the full community that they can't be bothered taking 5 minutes of their time and writing "We're still here". Poor devs who made a fortune from all the customers with promises of more content and updates etc...

Makes you wonder if there is even forward progress, they might be having to redo the entire model from scratch with as long as it is taking them. Afraid to be the bearer of bad news maybe?
I think all everyone wants to see is a progress report on the current state of the tyre update. Is it in internal testing yet?, are we still on the optimization stage? Did you have to backtrack a lot and are back on research and design stages now? Just a few minutes time to inform everyone on the work that has been going on for years now.

Quote from edge3147 :

Welcome to management and business 101. Demands and questions by your consumers is an expected part of being in business. When you provide someone a product that isn't completed or is lacking things that consumers want, you must learn to adapt (rather quickly) or you find yourself losing customers and generating negative feedback. Patience wears thin especially when you leave people in the dark for years.

The issue here isn't that they provided a product that isn't completed or is lacking. They provided an excellent product that was worth way more than we were asked to pay.

The issue here is that people feel that because they bought a great game that was excellent value, somehow, they are owed something by the devs, and are demanding information about some future product that may never happen, or it may who knows. That's not business and management 101.
I could understand it if they had sold loads of pre-order licences for S3 based on a promised and missed release date - then all this would be justified.

Business and management 101 states that Scavier should have released the same basic game each year with shitty physics, slightly changed content, full of bugs, and spent most of their resources on obtaining licenses for real world tracks and cars. Then charged full price for it each time, and removed support for each 'new' game after a year or so.

I'm glad they chose a different path to follow.

Quote from DeKo :

Poor devs who made a fortune from all the customers...

Cool, if they made a fortune that's great, they deserve to IMO. £24 for LFS is the most fun per £ that I've ever got from a game, by far. Where did you find out how much they made?

Quote :

...with promises of more content and updates etc...

If they tricked you out of your money with false promises, you should get in touch with trading standards, they will make sure you get a full refund - assuming your allegations are legitimate.