...and the losers cry the Italian way.

@Albeig: Get over yourself and enjoy the chamoionship title and how everyone agrees that you won it by fair means.
We're all saying that italy played well and that italy's strategy worked out nicely and you try to act as if we insulted you... Just enjoy the victory .

Vain

Sorry, Vain, victory has never been so bittersweet for me: I'm reading the Guardian right now and there's an unbelievable amount of racism and ignorance about Italy. By the way my last post was meant to be sarcastic, ironic and self-ironic, all in seven words.
So, if I answer to someone who's posting things that could be read as being the n-th attack against Italy as a nation, there's nothing wrong. If the post I answered to was somewhat clearer in its intentions I would never have answered in such a way. If there was no sarcasm involved, I apologise. But why should I stay quiet, after all? I'm not attacking, I'm just answering, and I'm not headbutting anyone.

Quote from Albieg :

and I'm not headbutting anyone.

Nice one!

It's all about quality of the satire. If the satire is crooked, I don't like it.

I think that the world cup as a whole as been one of the worst world cups I have seen. The behaviour of players, the seemingly bizarre ref'ing, our (England) rather lacklutstre performance.

I think the professional behaviour of the majority of players just brings the sport down. I'm not getting at the reactions of Zidane or Rooney for example but the goading and the winding up that takes place. It's wrong and completly unsportsmen like. If I was Zidane and someone took my familys name in vain the way the Italian did I would have done more than just head butt him. I would have made sure he never played foorball again. All this falling over, name calling theatrical charade is destroying the beautiful game.

It's up to us to turn our backs and show our disapproval. Take away the revenue and the sponsership audience and the playing will soon pick up.

People power. A global movement to bring football back to the common man. Just turn your backs. It will be difficult. And the road will be long one but you have to play the long game. And you never know, put all your support into your local club team and who knows where it could take you.

Quote from Albieg :

and I'm not headbutting anyone.

Actually, I think Zidane hit the right one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKGcUr0S-FU

I'm not defending Materazzi. Are you defending Zidane for what he did, Vykos?

I would imagine Materazzi must have said something pretty bad for Zidane to have reacted that way. I would think in such a high pressure situation if you had been verbally abused, you would have reacted in a far more violent way. I hope this doesn't end up tarnishing what has been a fantastic career.

On the actual winners of the World Cup, I'm disappointed. A country who's top league is under investigation for match fixing and played some of the most boring football I've seen in my life ends up winning.

At least it wasn't Portugal though. I for one am beginning to get fed up with the state of Premiership, European and International football. I'd rather watch my local team playing honest.

And here comes another one... Mr Kerry, would you please name a player involved in the match fixing scandal? I repeat that again: keep that out of the World Cup and wait for the outcome of the investigation. Half of Italy is waiting to see the guilty managers punished.

Quote from Albieg :

And here comes another one... Mr Kerry, would you please name a player involved in the match fixing scandal? I repeat that again: keep that out of the World Cup and wait for the outcome of the investigation. Half of Italy is waiting to see the guilty managers punished.

I wasn't questioning the integrity of the players involved at the World Cup, just the state of the country's game as a whole.

How deep do you know it has gone? You don't. I doubt that even the prosecutors know. For all we know all the Italian team may have been involved. It's just not possible to know all the facts.

I congratulate Italy on winning it, I just would have preferred any other county, bar Portugal

So, if you're not questioning the integrity of the players, what's the relationship with the World Cup?
And about the way we're dealing with the scandal, chances are you don't know Francesco Saverio Borrelli and the respect he deserves for what he has done in another obscure time for Italy. But in that time it was much more serious than football. Maybe if you knew about the personal history of the prosecutors involved you wouldn't be that skeptical about the trial and the outcome. But that's going, once again, off topic.

Quote from Albieg :

So, if you're not questioning the integrity of the players, what's the relationship with the World Cup?
And about the way we're dealing with the scandal, chances are you don't know Francesco Saverio Borrelli and the respect he deserves for what he has done in another obscure time for Italy. But in that time it was much more serious than football. Maybe if you knew about the personal history of the prosecutors involved you wouldn't be that skeptical about the trial and the outcome. But that's going, once again, off topic.

Oh dear, as often is the case you aren't quite getting what I'm trying to say.

I wasn't questioning the integrity of the prosecutors either. Just saying it is always almost impossible for anyone to know all the facts in a trial. People will get away with things they've done and people won't.

I just would of preferred a country without all these goings on to have won. It's my personal opinion... I'm allowed it!

I now pronounce you husband and wife!

Chill! It seems you both are taking two phrases of what the other is saying, putting it out of context and commenting on it.

Quote from axus :

I now pronounce you husband and wife!

Chill! It seems you both are taking two phrases of what the other is saying, putting it out of context and commenting on it.

Keep out of it you buffoon! We are having a discussion, it doesn't need you to get involved.

Quote from Albieg :

I'm not defending Materazzi. Are you defending Zidane for what he did, Vykos?

Nope. I do not defend him, I was shocked by his reaction. If - what I heard from a lippreader - it is true, that materazzi said something bad about Zidanes family, etc. I can understand Zidanes reaction, but it's never excusable. But it would fit in materazzis behaviour...

I have no respect for people, that go berserk and get brutal, if they are offended by words. It's a sad thing. I am also fully for strict punishment and rules against "counter-attacks".

So, all in all: Not right from zidane, below fairness from materazzi, but maybe a bit smarter to "only" provoke and call Zidanes wife and/or sister a cheap hore... great sportsmanship....

You're allowed to your opinion as long as I'm allowed to mine, but we're talking about MAJOR sport and criminal investigations with more than 100,000 phone calls that have been listened to by the prosecutors, and with prosecutors who have absolutely no knowledge of football. In fact, Saverio Borrelli was one of the most prominent prosecutors in "Clean Hands" back in the nineties. He has never attended a single football match, but he'll be forever part of Italian history for the job he had done years later. These are few facts to show that investigations have been broad and wide, and that the prosecutors know how to judge very well.
And regarding your preference, you're allowed to that too. The answer on the pitch was more than enough, for me.

Quote from Albieg :

You're allowed to your opinion as long as I'm allowed to mine, but we're talking about MAJOR sport and criminal investigations with more than 100,000 phone calls that have been listened to by the prosecutors, and with prosecutors who have absolutely no knowledge of football. In fact, Saverio Borrelli was one of the most prominent prosecutors in "Clean Hands" back in the nineties. He has never attended a single football match, but he'll be forever part of Italian history for the job he had done years later. These are few facts to show that investigations have been broad and wide, and that the prosecutors know how to judge very well.
And regarding your preference, you're allowed to that too. The answer on the pitch was more than enough, for me.

100,000 phone calls, what about the 1 that may have had all the info, which they may not have listened too. You never know.

Italy got lucky, in my opinion France over the 120 minutes outplayed Italy. Italy's superb penalty taking won them them World Cup, Zidane's sending off didn't make that much difference. Trezeguet would still have taken a penalty.

Vykos, I believe Materazzi should have been punished too. Both Zidane and Materazzi have ugly precedents. No one knows what Materazzi said, yet, but "certainly it must have been something ugly"... although we don't know
So we have the certainty of a reaction against the uncertainty of the provocation, at the moment. I'm extremely curious about that too, but all we have now is endless speculations against a certain reaction.
Was it a nipple tweak? Was it something about terrorists? Yo mama so ugly? All we know it's we're judging Materazzi basing on Zidane's reaction, and that's no favour to truth.

Chris, what about martians on the pitch? They're green, so you don't see them. Everything beyond well documented calls (tons of them) and eyewitnesses is just a conspiracy theory.

It's still possible, conspiracy or not.

Martians may have have been on the pitch, maybe you are a martian?

Still possible, extremely unlikely, but you should read the papers of the sport and criminal trial to understand that. They're using the heaviest hand possible, interpreting every single word in the worst possible light, and the criminal trials will be even worse. Maybe they exxagerated indicting Moggi for kidnap, but that is a sign of the seriousness of it all, with hundreds of dedicated persons trying to leave no stone unturned. This is only the start.

I was the martian shouting abuse to Zidane, he wrongly headbutted Materazzi for that

All footballers are cheap, spineless, senseless fools.

/catches up with Maggot for the running away.

Edit: For the whole match it was a question of who would surrender first. I felt the French surrender would be exceptionally cowardly, whilst the Italians would pull it off in style. Unfortunately they kicked a ball around for a bit.

But I keep thinking of Monty Python quotes for Zidane (I saw that bit in the Indian Takeaway last night ). He could have said 'go away, or I shall taunt you a second timea', or 'your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries'. When asked if they wanted to win the world cup the French would say 'no thanks, we already got one [s******ing to friends behind ramparts: I told him we already got one]'. The scope is almost endless you snivelling pigdog.

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

Italy got lucky, in my opinion France over the 120 minutes outplayed Italy. Italy's superb penalty taking won them them World Cup, Zidane's sending off didn't make that much difference. Trezeguet would still have taken a penalty.

Italy outplayed France in the first half time.
It's true that France played better in the second and during ETs, but during Euro 2000 finals Italy outplayed France for all the entire match, but a lucky shot from Treseguet made France winning the cup.

What happened yesterday is only the opposite (with treseguet involved too), so i dont understand why most of the people here are whining against Italy's victory.

It's always the same story:
If Italy lose, all say that they played in a bad way.
If Italy win, all say that they played in a bad way too.
We never complained against your victories, so please stfu.

The best match played in this WC was Ita - Ger, and had been won by Italy, that played better then Germany during quite the entire match.
And imho that was the funniest WC match of the last 12 years (the last 4 WCs).

Be more openminded guys, don't think that all the things related to Italy or
something Italian became bad only because you think that they are.

Quote from SpaceMarineITA :

Italy outplayed France in the first half time.
It's true that France played better in the second and during ETs, but during Euro 2000 finals Italy outplayed France for all the entire match, but a lucky shot from Treseguet made France winning the cup.

What happened yesterday is only the opposite (with treseguet involved too), so i dont understand why most of the people here are whining against Italy's victory.

It's always the same story:
If Italy lose, all say that they played in a bad way.
If Italy win, all say that they played in a bad way too.
We never complained against your victories, so please stfu.

The best match played in this WC was Ita - Ger, and had been won by Italy, that played better then Germany during quite the entire match.
And imho that was the funniest WC match of the last 12 years (the last 4 WCs).

Be more openminded guys, don't think that all the things related to Italy or
something Italian became bad only because you think that they are.

Haha, people like you make me laugh. Victimisation of your country. Don't be stupid, I love Italy as a country and I'd rather live there than her in the UK. The fact is France were the better team, Italy were the most boring team in the finals and to tell me to stfu isn't going to do you any favours.

If you spoke to people like that in real life you wouldn't last 5 minutes. I knew I'd get the Italian brigade when I started arguing against Albeig. As for being open-minded, maybe you should look in the mirror!