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2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix Santander von Deutschland (Nürburgring GP)
(91 posts, started )
Quote from Mackie The Staggie :Not yet, but I'm sure Kobayshi is cooking something up.

Was going to say, kobayashi is a perfect example of overtakes that somehow defy physics. :P
Pretty great race. Well deserved by Hamilton. Another nice drive from Kobayashi jumping from 18th to 11th in the first few laps and hanging on for 9th.
A lot of good drives today. Pretty surprised to see Sutil in 6th as well!

Looks like Red Bull is having trouble with the tyres in cold conditions. I wonder if we'll see them struggling in Hungary and Spa, and maybe Korea and Japan as well.

Oh and how is Alonzo getting a lift off Webber at the end! Crazy bastards!!!
Intrepid. Tell me how do you define who's better than the others? Unless you have 2 drivers who have had a same teammate or they have raced against each others in the same car you cannot say someone is better than others. All you can look for seeing ''true skill' are race victories and championship victories. Besides the difference between top teams hasn't really been enormous after Ferrari's (Michael Schumacher's) reign. Had there been someone slower than Vettel in Red Bull right now we wouldn't be talking about Red Bull being superior. Webber hasn't shown superiority with his driving and is just few points ahead of Hamilton. It's Vettel's magical driving in qualifying and races that has created the illusion that Red Bull has been clearly faster than everyone else. Webber hasn't been faster than everyone. He's got no victories and only one second place. He on the other hand has shown exactly what consistency is by driving to positions 2-5 in every race. He's also been second and fifth only once so all his other positions are either third or fourth. That's no superiority but solid driving with a top car.

Can you show me any top 2 list from anywhere than Great Britain that says Alonso and Hamilton are the two best drivers since I do not for a second believe that is ''common knowledge''? There are never exact lists for the best or the two best drivers. There are always larger lists since many drivers who are obviously talented have never had a winning car. Had Hamilton ''been raised'' in a worse team than Mclaren and gotten his chance in F1 there I don't think you would be talking about him at all since he wouldn't have won a single race. That's the issue with comparing top drivers. You can't. You can only assume something based on the driver's performance against others. Only champions are remembered and only victories matter. That's the nature of this sport.
Quote from Juzaa :All you can look for seeing ''true skill' are race victories and championship victories.

don't forget performance vs. teammate... rather obvious category by which drivers are ranked.
Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :don't forget performance vs. teammate... rather obvious category by which drivers are ranked.

True. I did not mention that since from the top drivers only Hamilton and Alonso have been on the same team and if you start comparing how their current teammates performed against others and they against others it just doesn't work. Also you need to consider that not all teams treat the drivers equally even in the start of the season and some cars fit better for certain drivers. (one of the many ways of getting the driver team likes to do better) For example it was not unusual for Hamilton to have newer/better car parts than Kovalainen when they were teammates. Also for some reason Kovalainen never pitted earlier than Hamilton and every time he was faster in the practices for some reason he was given a strategy that had extremely long first stint so that Hamilton would be faster than him in the qualifying. It's not always so direct but still makes ranking drivers' performances extremely hard because there's no way of knowing just what is going inside the team.
The reason why Kovalainen never pitted before Hamilton was because he was usually way behind him, seriously it makes sence how you hate him just because he absolutely destroyed one of your finnish fathfuls, Hamilton was leagues ahead of Kovalainen in talent and it showed to the point Mclaren where forced to favourite him.

Just think about this for a second, He tied(allthough he technically beat) with the reining champion in hes ROOKIE season.

At the time Alonso was considered one of if not the best driver(and funnily enough still is) and he matched him on hes first season, a season which realisticly was more about learning the ropes of an f1 car and adapting your driving style rather then just going for the WDC right off the bat, only JV could come close to that with a weak expereinced team mate(damon hill) in a car thats only competetion was its self.
If anyone thinks that Hamilton doesn't deserve to be up the sharp end of F1 then they must not have been watching, or they don't understand motor racing at all. He's a remarkable talent and the sport would be poorer without him.

I wish they still have Raikkonen and Montoya though.
Quote from Juzaa :Isn't it a wonder how two best racers in F1 are both over 80 points behind the current leader in championship points? About Vettel's overtaking skills, I would like to see you overtake someone who's 5-10 km/h faster than you in straights. (that's the difference between Red Bull and Mclaren in case you didn't know) It's a lot harder than being faster or equal in straight speeds. Vettel can't overtake as easily as Hamilton because his car isn't fast enough. That's just the way their car is designed.

.

so vettel's leading the championship because he's a great driver but the cars the reason he can't pass? equally valid to say that alonso and hamilton are great drivers because they can pass but they're behind in the championship because their cars are poor,

difference is whilst hamilton and (especially) alonso find overtaking easier than their team mates mark webber manages to pass in an identical car to vettel so according to your argument red bull must be giving webber a better car. guess that means vettel's red bulls number 2 driver.
Quote from tinvek :so vettel's leading the championship because he's a great driver but the cars the reason he can't pass? equally valid to say that alonso and hamilton are great drivers because they can pass but they're behind in the championship because their cars are poor,

difference is whilst hamilton and (especially) alonso find overtaking easier than their team mates mark webber manages to pass in an identical car to vettel so according to your argument red bull must be giving webber a better car. guess that means vettel's red bulls number 2 driver.

*applause*
Quote from Mustafur :The reason why Kovalainen never pitted before Hamilton was because he was usually way behind him, seriously it makes sence how you hate him just because he absolutely destroyed one of your finnish fathfuls, Hamilton was leagues ahead of Kovalainen in talent and it showed to the point Mclaren where forced to favourite him.

Just think about this for a second, He tied(allthough he technically beat) with the reining champion in hes ROOKIE season.

The difference between Hamilton and Kovalainen wasn't as great as you seem to remember. 2008 Kovalainen was faster than Hamilton in 5 of 18 qualifies with much more fuel than Hamilton. He also finished better than Hamilton in 5 races. It was actually a miracle Kovalainen could even beat Hamilton with the tactics he had. Kovalainen and Hamilton were usually quite even in practice sessions and first 2 rounds in qualifying. (third was messed up due to Mclaren quite often) Kovalainen wasn't as good driver in races as Hamilton but the main reason he ''failed'' was because of the tactics he was given and that he didn't always have the newest parts that Hamilton had. He was never talented enough to win championships but you are making it sound like he's a bad driver which he isn't.

It's actually kinda funny that if I merely state a truth that Hamilton was favoured over Kovalainen you start bashing him and saying I only say so because I'm a Finn but when I'm talking about a British driver you refuse to hear anything bad of him and talk of him like he's the God Almighty. Of course his first season was great but he was the first talented driver to get a position in top team in his rookie year. Plus Mclaren did have the fastest car and Alonso had troubles with the team. Everyone else than Hamilton have started their journey from the bottom. That's one reason why their first seasons aren't as great. Part of Hamilton's attitude problem is that he got everything too fast and too soon.

And Tinvek;
Do you even understand what you're saying?
1.I haven't seen Webber overtake with the DRS or in straights any more than Vettel in races they both have been behind others.
2. Are Hamilton's and Alonso's cars poor? No. Webber has actually said that their advantage this year is less than in last year. Hamilton's and Alonso's cars are fast, almost as fast as the Red Bull but they are designed for racing. Red Bull's car is designed to go as fast as possible around the track. There is a difference. Red Bull has better downforce and they can drive the corners much faster. That's where they are fast. They lack speed in straights because of that (and also because of their engines) but they lose less in straights than what they gain in corners.

Overtaking ability isn't what makes your car good. It's a part of it. Red Bull have designed their car to be faster at the cost of overtaking. So far it has worked quite well don't you think?
When Kovalainen left McL he said (paraphrased) he couldn't get the most out of the car because he lacked the talent.
Quote from NotAnIllusion :When Kovalainen left McL he said (paraphrased) he couldn't get the most out of the car because he lacked the talent.

I vaguely recall something like that. I was gutted too. I'd put a small bet on Kov to win the title within his first 3 seasons in f1. Maybe he isn't as good as I'd hoped, but I still don't like to see him wasting his time at lotus, even though I'm sure he wouldn't complain about his quality of life!

Juzaa you do make some good points in your walls of text, but your tone is rather arrogant. You don't have to "correct" everyone that posts an opinion which conflicts with your own.

All these threads are becoming the same.
Quote from sinbad :
Juzaa you do make some good points in your walls of text, but your tone is rather arrogant. You don't have to "correct" everyone that posts an opinion which conflicts with your own.

All these threads are becoming the same.

I'm sorry about my tone but I'm not a native speaker and I can only use words I know. If I sound arrogant that's not my meaning. I just do get a bit pissed when people are saying their opinions as truth and can't even really back up what they are saying. I don't remember replying to opinions if they haven't been stated like they were the one and only truth.

I'll try to reduce my posts in here then but I just do have a habit of answering back when someone disagrees with about everything I say. I'm just trying to make others understand my point of view and maybe get a reply why others feel they are right.
No, just no. Lewis, kindly STFU about stuff you know nothing about. Thank you.
Quote from DieKolkrabe :No, just no. Lewis, kindly STFU about stuff you know nothing about. Thank you.

See, this is problem with these sound bites - just like "is it cos I is black" - you don't get the full picture:

Natalie Pinkham: "Well it was an epic battle which was enjoyed by fans all over the world, I certainly got emotional when I heard the national anthem - did you choke up?"

Lewis Hamilton: "I did, errm, I always do; I think because, I'm massively proud to represent my country and to hear my national anthem... (telegraph quote)"

Other journo (sounds like whatshisface Noble from Autosport): "we have 5 verses though, our one"

LH: "Yeah, well, I think we need to improve ours"

OJ: "just have 2 verses, at least"

LH: "mmm, it needs to be longer, it should be fair, it should be exactly the same for the Germans, it should be exactly the same for the Spanish, it should be exactly the same for the British"

NP: "You've got to milk that moment, haven't you!"

LH: "Exactly, I was like, is that it?"

NP: "We'll start a petition in the morning"

LH: (laughs)

Just wanted to clear this up before the usual suspects have a field day
I bet he wishes he was Italian, after watching Valentino Rossi for so many years I know the Italian anthem better than the British one.
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :I bet he wishes he was Italian, after watching Valentino Rossi for so many years I know the Italian anthem better than the British one.

I know the Italian anthem better then the British only because of one M.Schumacher and his Ferrari days.
As well as the German national anthem showing its face agian.
Regardless of if it's a soundbite or not. Still a very, very dumb idea to be honest. It pretty much craps on the British history. Do you see any other athletes actually wanting the same thing, or is it Lewis being pretty silly again?
Quote from DieKolkrabe :Regardless of if it's a soundbite or not. Still a very, very dumb idea to be honest. It pretty much craps on the British history. Do you see any other athletes actually wanting the same thing, or is it Lewis being pretty silly again?

If you actually watching/heard the interview in context you'd understand he said it for a bit of fun because everyone else has longer anthems.
Quote from DieKolkrabe :Regardless of if it's a soundbite or not. Still a very, very dumb idea to be honest. It pretty much craps on the British history. Do you see any other athletes actually wanting the same thing, or is it Lewis being pretty silly again?

Even if he were serious, how would asking for a second verse be "crapping" on British history?
Quote from Töki (HUN) :Super? What? Homo was on warm tyres and Alo had no grip yet due to cold tyres. How was it super...? It was piss easy.

You're just a biassed retard.

2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix Santander von Deutschland (Nürburgring GP)
(91 posts, started )
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