Quote from Shotglass :

so newbies that want do drive clean and experienced drivers that either have a sim background other than lfs or that havent raced that combination online yet will have to jump through hoops just to get that good clean race they deserve ?

and what would happen if the track changed or the driver switches to another car that he hasnt raced on that track yet ? autokick ?

like i said - a serverside option - this leaves plenty of room for unfiltered racing and the ammount of additional tasks required to do before the player can join are much less than forced driving tests - for the experienced driver, it's one or two laps around his desired track to make it into the 115 or 120% mark - and if some server-hosts set their mark to 107%, they do not want new/inexperienced drivers (like i would call myself as well) which isn't a problem in my eyes. i don't want to race on pro-only servers where i end up last and get flamed because of being slower, being a newbie and so on

and about the trackchanging - do you remember S1 with the unlocks? and what happened if a server had the racemanager track-changer running with forced cars on certain tracks? this wouldn't be any different... you'd receive a message that you're not able to chose the track/car combination and will be put in spectate..

i think this will be much better than actually forcing people to do the tests - there can't be a perfect solution, as long as people want to drive cars faster than they can control. i'd rather stick to the ones i can handle than going for the FO8 straight away - that'S why i almost never drove it...

it seems like a lot of self-titled pro-drivers want to get rid of us newcomers and inexperienced drivers. that'S sad, but i'd rather not be able to join certain 'elite' servers, than being forced to take boring tests

Having just read the whole thread, it's obvious to me their are pro's and con's of every suggestion being made with regards to making LFS a better environment to play in and as close to "real life" racing as possible. The game is a simulator, I think that the program achieves this title very well. Colours in names and a leaderboard in the bottom right hand corner doesn't make this game arcady, in fact it's just taking advantage of the resources that are avaliable to you. Have them if you want - take them off if you don't. To suggest that this is a problem behind the rising number of the type of racer playing LFS who enjoys playing "dirty" / "wrecking" is a long way of the mark. Let's get this straight there are i'd say 4 types of racers playing this game:

• Very quick racers who know the rules and how to play
  
• Quick enough racers who know their capabilities and how to play
  
• Slow Racers who know that they are slow and respect other drivers
  
• Wreckers who don't have a clue full stop
  

I think we all know which one we want off our servers. Any one who cares about LFS and it's community will accept that not everyone is going to be within 1 second of each other so to disadvantage them would be unfair.

Here's a brief reaction to some of the point's raised in this thread:

Test's - These would have to be real racing type tests really challenging for the user, however would this detract would-be users from playing the game, even seasoned LFS users. I think it would have to be an extremely good version to pull it off. It would have to be revolutionary.

Would have to include practical and theory imo.

Credits - Anyone can set up a 3 car race with AI and bump their credits up. Not a good idea at all

Mileage - Purely oval racers anyone?

Experience Rating - The way this was suggested wouldn't work. A wrecker smashes you, how would the program recognise this was his fault or yours?

However if you based this on being rated by fellow S2 Licenced racers through LFSWorld not the game itself, it may work. This would involve being able to rate member on a scale of 1-10 depending on how you rate them as a driver. Using a Ratio System that people who have higher ratings, that when they rate another member there view means more than a noob's mate. I accept that this will have flaws but maybe an avenue to look down. Servers would have different rating values. E.g PRO servers, Intermediate and Beginner

Pay-to-play servers: Great Idea, but then what stops a little rich kid doshing out the cash to wreck. Also remember that not everyone lives with a money tree in their back garden. How can you guarentee lot's of racers are going to be online. I heard GTR use a similar system. Did this work.

Making the game more expensive: Tristan I like the idea behind it I really do. In order to play LFS properly I hav spent over £100 pounds with the game and the Momo Wheel. After making that investment I want to at least be good at it. So we could either raise the price of the game or run servers which are wheel only maybe....maybe not.

League Racing more prominent: LFS to introduce it's own league format i.e run it's own league. Everything would be based around the league. You would be recognised as say a lower league racer so you can only access servers to race with people who have a similar rating. As you win events/ get promoted, this alters the types of server you can go in.


If I spot anymore I will edit

Look around at how many good people there are in LFS, surely we can make something work. Oh and sorry if this post doesn't really link together very well, kinda got into a rant and kept going.

I don't mind getting flamed either :P

aha were getting somwhere now, (i wish i could rename this thread too!)

it strikes me that most people are afraid of tests ingame, that's fair enough the tests in gt4 are a serious pain in the butt, and not REALLY all that imaginative. I think to base any tests on speed would be pretty unfair to a LOT of paying customers.

the option of a LFSworld ratings system would be a nice idea to explore, If it was as simple as logging on to LFSworld, highlighting a particular driver and then rating him.

Imagine if you will, you're online and sombody is being a prat, you could pop down to LFS world and give them a poor rating, it sounds like it could turn nasty but it should only affect their rating in a small way, although if there are LOADS of people rating them badly, then they're probably the type of person LFS can do without.
if each individual rating was only held for a month or so, if they decide to drive clean they would get their rating back to normal faily quickly.

i feel it would work both ways, should you feel you've had a great race with somebody then head to LFSw and bump up their rating.

introduce a filter when joining a server (obviosly the qualifying rating should be decided by that particular admin) and within a week or so you'll have the good more or less seperated from the bad.

the rating system is based purely on whether or not people like racing with you. speed is irrelevant, so a noob (as long as they're racing fair) will have no problems at all (hell, they probably won't even notice!)

if we all share ideas we may find a worthy solution that's good for all (but most importantly for LFS)

I think the above post is pretty much how I thought of it to be honest, just my english skills aren't great

I understand your point, all I'm saying is people forked out 24 quid for the game so If they are intent on wrecking they will pay 15 quid a year. If this idea was successful all the good players would be using the server leaving non-subscription ones empty. They would then pay anyway as even they wouldn't wreck in empty servers.

we need a way to filter out the idiots who don't actually want to play the game properly, WITHOUT filtering out would be players.

i don't think it's quite right to ask £24 to play the game and then to find you've got to pay £15 just to play on decent servers, THAT will discourage more new players than anything. and if they will spend £24 on a game just to feck about with, they're probably gonna pay £15 just to 'beat' our new 'protection' system, i got a feeling they're sad enough to.

i'm kinda thinking that with a rating system that would be a real part of the game, would benefit us all, i mean if we're all concious of our personal rating, then we'll more than likely want to improve it. even a noob with a rating of 1 would like to improve it, and they will if they stay out of trouble. the finer points should be worked out to give a noob the benefit of the doubt so as not to penalize them for simply not knowing what was expected of them.

what about a system of rating where the better you're own personal rating the more effect it will have when rating somebody else, that means that even a whole team of 10-20 idiots with negative ratings wouldn't even be able to TOUCH a noob. maybee once your're rating goes negative you cannot rate others at all. although even the super-rated shouldn't be able to destroy any users rating in one go, it should take at least 10-20 ratings to make a real difference.

since it would only be for access to certain servers nobody ever really looses out, except the idiots of course.

Quote from Theafro :

what about a system of rating where the better you're own personal rating the more effect it will have when rating somebody else, that means that even a whole team of 10-20 idiots with negative ratings wouldn't even be able to TOUCH a noob. maybee once your're rating goes negative you cannot rate others at all. although even the super-rated shouldn't be able to destroy any users rating in one go, it should take at least 10-20 ratings to make a real difference.

Is that an echo?

not entierly, more of an 'extrusion' of the idea we've both got!

you could call it agreement if you like, but i'm not normally like that here

When it comes to how much LFS costs I think this sums it up

Quote: [tsr.]Markko

Live for Speed S2 license: £24
New computer: £800
MOMO: £80
Internet: £30
Racing 20 other guys and beating every single last one of em: priceless

Quote from Theafro :

Imagine if you will, you're online and sombody is being a prat, you could pop down to LFS world and give them a poor rating...

Yes, you could also pop in and give him a poor rating even if he wasn't being a prat. It's probably best not to give disruptive types yet another system to wreak havok with.

If the community is so concerned with driving and racing standards of new racers then perhaps an adopt-a-rookie programme might ease the situation?

But regardless of where this is all going I think a racing manual is essential for this forum and perhaps for LFS as well. Newcomers and established racers alike should have information available on how to contest a race cleanly and within the normal rules of racing. Many racing incidents are from a lack of understanding, not from mailicious intent.

Additionally, if every one of you joined a league, or formed a league, organised racing would flourish. Good for all. :up:

Quote from mkinnov8 :

Err dude, Open up lfs and tell me if you need to pass a test to access the faster car? No...Didnt think so, which is why I posted what I did...I may have been tired, but not stupid.

The point I was making was that unlike some other games, you dont HAVE to do a test to drive a faster car, we just wanted to provide the option to.

Thanks

Well actualy the answer would be yes. Because I konw that the time I wasted (a whole 10 mins of my life) would be put to good use and once I passed the test I would be able to race in a more civilized environment.

I think a rating system wouldnt be fair enough. It needs a lot of self-control not to vote with your first emotion. (I'm not sure you understand me, cause my english ... =) ). I mean sometimes you are very angry about a crash, but 5 min later you cool down and realize that shit happens sometimes.
Especially if you give different weights for different voters, better racers are not better human beings necessary.

LFS should stay open for everyone in its basics. The community can handle such a problem by itself. Of course we needs the options, thats why I suggested the serveroption in post above.

Idiots also exist in reality and LFS wants to be like reality =).

Cheers

Hahni

Edit: there are racing-rules in the manual already

Quote from Hahni :

Edit: there are racing-rules in the manual already

My LFS didn't come with a manual.

Quote from Gunn :

My LFS didn't come with a manual.

Precisely what I have been getting at - therefore it is necessary to teach a newcomer the rules of online racing. Since the devs cannot sell a hardcopy manual with each game sold there should be something in the game that teaches it (in an interactive and enjoyable way preferably)

Quote from Gunn :

My LFS didn't come with a manual.

You can find a manual under "links" on the LFS website

a manual is only any good if you read it! Ignorance is the biggest problem, the type of racer that we're all against is simply the ignorant ones.
ignorant of the respect others are willing to give them, ignorant of the respect they should have for others, and ignorant of the basic good practice of driving.

some of my most enjoyable races have been while 'towing' a noob about, having started nice and easy i soon found after 10ish laps that we were actually racing, (he beat me once or twice too! )

and some of the worst online experiences iv'e ever had was in a server full of peeps all thinking they were the 'nuts, but i promptly got banned as a wrecker for getting rear ended for avoiding an accident! many hours of grrrring followed

it just shows that in order to introduce something to help better driving standards. it would be very difficult not to discriminate against totally 'honest' drivers.

Perhaps the easiest way to introduce anyone to the subtileties (spelling? too lazy to check :P) of online racing would be a video tutorial. But to keep the filesize low, it could be something like a review where the most important rules are shown, and all with spoken explantions.

And you have to watch it mandatory, if you want to join your first online race. AT least, if it is not too long.

very good idea ColeusRattus; a videotutorial with takes you on a tour of a race, including qualifying, race start, pits, yellow/blue flag, warnings and crash recovery.

with in-game videoclips and clear and descriptive text/commentary added it will be a very popular method to introduce anyone to the racing community. such a video would serve also for other games too

Again, an idea being developed at CRC...geez you guys! JOIN THE CRC!!

lol

link to CRC?

because CRC makes me think of Cross Rally ChampionShip by the makers of INSANE; quite a good game too, a very entertaining rally sim which works perfectly with the DFP 900° wheel

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Perhaps the easiest way to introduce anyone to the subtileties (spelling? too lazy to check :P) of online racing would be a video tutorial. But to keep the filesize low, it could be something like a review where the most important rules are shown, and all with spoken explantions.

And you have to watch it mandatory, if you want to join your first online race. AT least, if it is not too long.

kinda like maybee a scripted replay of a really cool looking race (top class GT's or something) to enhance the 'WOW i want to do THAT' factor,

it goes through the start procedure , with strategic pauses along the way with a caption and some good 'indicating graphics' overlaid to highlight what to look for, follow through t1 and all the accidents that might happen(cold tyres, etc), down the back straight (slipstream safety) all the way round and through the pit's should do ya,

make it an entertaining watch and people will want to emulate what they just saw an experienced LFS player do. ie avoid the accidents and be responsible.

hmmm might not work on some tho'