dirty and simple -> just giving the user the option of giving AI wider tires (choosing the width to tune the advantage)

we know improving AI driving skills is a hell of a problem, "there will be no AI capable to challenge with a real pro racer"...well at least with current CPUs and current neural networks theories...but lets dont get into this...

so if the current implementation of AI is a bit slow, let's give them some advantage! giving them wider tires and/or slightly more power, we may fill their gap about racing skills...i propose it not because i like AI, but because many people is asking for that and mainly because if lfs can claim to be the only one sim with really challenging AI it would be a huge advertisement

please scawen consider this...it's simple, it's optional, it will add a lot for many users, it could be another key point to advertise

Give the AI wider tires??? Why would they need something modified to their car? When they could just be fixed to drive normally

Scawen has even said in the past that he can make the AI unbeatable, and I'll bet it doesn't involve any car configuration changes, they would just be smarter.

Quote from Tweaker :

Scawen has even said in the past that he can make the AI unbeatable, and I'll bet it doesn't involve any car configuration changes, they would just be smarter.

really? it sounds strange to me...then why did he made them so crappy i must give them faster cars if i want to arrange a not-boring single player race at pro...and i'm only and average racer!

by the way that suggestion may be archived just in case he wants a fast and dirty solution

Because the current AI implementation still thinks it's playing S1 and is completely puzzled why it has so few grip after driving over dirt.
It just isn't aware of the changes in S2 and thus is completely clueless how to drive right.

Vain

...but AI was crappy into S1 too...:eye-poppi

I've been modding some for Nascar Heat (witch has no worse AI than any other sim). In Heat it was simple to lay down a line for the AI to follow, and then give the AI parameters for how to behave in heavy traffic, in low traffic, when overtaking and so on and so on. In the end, if you did it right, the AI was actually challengeing.
But... The AI is still a stupic computer generated drone, and to compensate for the lack of IQ, it was generally needed to add some extra grip for the AI. If a player car had 1.00 grip, the AI would probably need something like 1.15 - 1.30, depending on the weight and wheelbase of the car.

I think that if this is what it takes to get a usefull AI in LFS, just do it.

Quote from Tweaker :

Scawen has even said in the past that he can make the AI unbeatable, and I'll bet it doesn't involve any car configuration changes, they would just be smarter.

imo two things dont allow AIs being unbeatable.
Firstly, people could test their setups too easily, simply because the AI will always drive exactly on the limit, and imo it's unrealistic when you can test a setup like that.
And secondly, the AI will show you the perfect line, and the driver doesnt have to learn this himself.

Eh? What are you on about Orion?

Having the AI on the same physics/parameters as you doesn't happen often (because it's hard to make them compeitive otherwise) but it's a good feature of LFS IMO. OK so the AI aren't up to much atm but they will be improved, and it feels better to know that, even though it's a computer controlled car, it's still driving the same car as you.

Quote from ORION :

imo two things dont allow AIs being unbeatable.
Firstly, people could test their setups too easily, simply because the AI will always drive exactly on the limit, and imo it's unrealistic when you can test a setup like that.
And secondly, the AI will show you the perfect line, and the driver doesnt have to learn this himself.

Making the AI unbeatable and 100x smarter still doesn't mean that a developed set from their driving will make you incredibly faster. The AI would be able to correct every possible slide or potential error, and be perfect in every area of the track.... which is definitely NOT humanly possible, so I don't see how this would be bad. Even the S1 AI did things nobody else could... like hold a perfectly smooth slide in the LX6 without letting go of the throttle, or doing the same at the start line with that car too... The only problem with the AI not being competitive enough in Pro mode was that they did not push it enough or have the correct line. I think if Scawen made AI that a fast driver would have a tough time keeping up with or being even with would be quite fun.

If the AI show you the perfect line, so what? If the AI were fixed, wouldn't they still show you a general line that you should drive on the track? Still doesn't mean you will drive exactly on that line either. Just showing someone a racing line doesn't mean they will instantly go out on the track and get a quick time. Actual on-track experience is the key.

But on the case of actually making them unbeatable... I think Scawen could do it, for some mode past "Pro" AI. But there is most likely a certain limit to how fast the AI can actually go on the track because of tire heat and other conditions, they can't be that much faster unless Scawen made them defy the physics in the game like some other simulations have done when their AI's 'strength' is above 100% :rolleyes:

:cool:

i think like ORION...if scawen can give the mathematically perfect lines, brake points etc. first of all it will be absolutely boring and also everyone will try to emulate AI...the good of lfs is that you can see (like IRL) evryone taking different lines and each one effective, however this thread is beginning to go a bit offtopic: i was giving a suggest believing AI couldn't be improved to catch up with fast lfs users, if this is wrong then the suggestion may be useless.

Well the AI could certaintly be just as fast or faster than normal LFS players without any car modification advantages over your own car. That's all I am saying... just from what I heard Scawen mention about their abilities a while ago. No need to give them wider tires or other options to make them supposedly handle better or be faster... the AI just need to be fixed, clearly. S2 AI suck, heheh

The thing i am waiting for in AI's is variation and improvisation..
Now they all just do exactly the same, at the same spot, speed and time...

I remember good ol Grand Prix (1) from Microprose, they had a basic AI setting, then added variation to that for every driver... this makes for a lot more interesting AI races..

Would be nice if LFS gained some randomness....things like:

Talent (Set when you create new AI)
% chance of driver errors
% chance of vehicle breakdowns (though these won't really happen in for example 5 lap races)

I could probably sit here for hours and type in many other random things i'd like to see added, but i think you get my drift..

Let's first get some variation in the different AI drivers, then work on their speed...
I would love to just be able to have the ai start a race and actually enjoy watching it... instead of falling half asleep after 5 laps..

The reason they're slow has more to do with confidence they have in the car's grip it seems by the way...


Greetz,

Sunsai.

:cyclops:


I got idea!


if Scawen would make an option to make the fastest and hardest and "smartest" AI ever we had, this would open one little thing to make possible.


Using "GT2" or "GT3" default set, put AI wearing up them and then we can see how much exact car would be faster than other one in exact track. This would allow to have more balanced classes when every AI will drive perfectly. We can see the difference then.

This idea is just for the guys who strongly says that classes are unbalanced. (for me, I would just like to keep present car classes as they are now)

What Sunsai said in his 6 year bump got me thinking. Would it be hard to give each AI driver an unique, randomized seed that affects all the aspects of the driving yet making it follow the basic driving structure? Maybe if you race an AI which style you like, you could save that seed number and input it manually for further racing with the same AI "driver". Could be interesting maybe? You could also share these numbers with your friends so they can face the same AI