Nay!
Another naysayer
Nay!
If I was running a league (as if, but you never know
) you can bet it would a DQ'able offence.
I also don't like forcing pit stops in a race any shorter than, say, 15 or 20 laps (depending on the car/track combo). Why make people stop in a race that isn't even long enough to wear out your tyres or run your fuel down? It's disruptive. I've been involved in a few close scraps in 10-15 lap races with forced pitstops, and it's very annoying to have to pit to avoid a DQ.
If a race is long enough, you'll need to pit eventually and you can choose when, according to your strategy. Forced pitting in sprints? Pointless. Nay again.
If I was running a league (as if, but you never know
) you can bet it would a DQ'able offence.I also don't like forcing pit stops in a race any shorter than, say, 15 or 20 laps (depending on the car/track combo). Why make people stop in a race that isn't even long enough to wear out your tyres or run your fuel down? It's disruptive. I've been involved in a few close scraps in 10-15 lap races with forced pitstops, and it's very annoying to have to pit to avoid a DQ.
If a race is long enough, you'll need to pit eventually and you can choose when, according to your strategy. Forced pitting in sprints? Pointless. Nay again.
Im not for or against it, but pitting on the last lap doesnt always make a difference
Reasons against it
"unfair" advantage - loose less time
unsporting
Reasons "for" it
loose less time
its not breaking any rules
You can understand people that do it, because its an advantage and its within the rules. Whether its unsporting or not is a matter of opinion
wikipedia says
"Unsporting Behaviour can be found in many sports, but is often referred to in Soccer/Football. Some examples that may be classified of Unsporting Behaviour is :
I dont think pitting on the last lap is unsporting, just making use of a "grey" area in the rules, which is something you see a lot of in F1 tbh
Reasons against it
"unfair" advantage - loose less time
unsporting
Reasons "for" it
loose less time
its not breaking any rules
You can understand people that do it, because its an advantage and its within the rules. Whether its unsporting or not is a matter of opinion
wikipedia says
"Unsporting Behaviour can be found in many sports, but is often referred to in Soccer/Football. Some examples that may be classified of Unsporting Behaviour is :
- Hard Fouls,
- Holding an opponent or deliberately handling the ball for the purpose of preventing an opponent from gaining possession of the ball,
- Faking an injury,
- Saying things that are designed to confuse or distract an opponent,
- Harassment (such as jumping around, shouting or making gestures to intentionally distract an opponent,
- Jumping in front of a corner kick, free kick or throw-in,
- Worrying the goalkeeper or trying to prevent him from putting the ball into play,
- Blatant cases of holding and pulling an opposing player or his uniform,
- Any action designed to deceive the Referee,
- Behavior which in the Referee's judgment is unsporting or causes an unfair advantage."
I dont think pitting on the last lap is unsporting, just making use of a "grey" area in the rules, which is something you see a lot of in F1 tbh
Last lap pitting should not be possible. It destroys the whole idea of a compulsory pit stop adding a strategic element to the race.
^
Indeed. Why force pitstops at all if you can just do it on the last lap and minimise your lost time? May as well tell the whole field to pit on the last lap in that case...
It may be legal and may only be people taking advantage of a grey area, like people do in F1 all the time, but it doesn't excuse it or make it legit IMO. We in LFS have the choice not to act like F1 rockstars and do whatever we want to win a race. I think most LFS'ers race for fun and not for points, so winning in this fashion is a hollow victory.
Another sporting parallel: in the late 70s there was a famous (now infamous) cricket match between Australia & New Zealand. NZ needed 6 runs to win (or draw, can't remember) from the last ball of the game. To prevent NZ from being able to hit that 6, Oz bowler Trevor Chappell rolled the ball underarm along the ground, preventing the NZ batsman from scoring and secured victory for Australia. Since there was nothing in the rules preventing Chappell from rolling the ball along the pitch, the ball was judged legal and the victory stood. However, the disgust over this victory was so great, from both the Australian and New Zealand public, media and even politicians, that the rules about bowling were amended to ban underarm bowling in future and Trevor Chappell's career was pretty much over. He still gets abused in the street for that ball. If something's legal it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
I hope a pit-window is available to admins in the near future :up:
Indeed. Why force pitstops at all if you can just do it on the last lap and minimise your lost time? May as well tell the whole field to pit on the last lap in that case...It may be legal and may only be people taking advantage of a grey area, like people do in F1 all the time, but it doesn't excuse it or make it legit IMO. We in LFS have the choice not to act like F1 rockstars and do whatever we want to win a race. I think most LFS'ers race for fun and not for points, so winning in this fashion is a hollow victory.
Another sporting parallel: in the late 70s there was a famous (now infamous) cricket match between Australia & New Zealand. NZ needed 6 runs to win (or draw, can't remember) from the last ball of the game. To prevent NZ from being able to hit that 6, Oz bowler Trevor Chappell rolled the ball underarm along the ground, preventing the NZ batsman from scoring and secured victory for Australia. Since there was nothing in the rules preventing Chappell from rolling the ball along the pitch, the ball was judged legal and the victory stood. However, the disgust over this victory was so great, from both the Australian and New Zealand public, media and even politicians, that the rules about bowling were amended to ban underarm bowling in future and Trevor Chappell's career was pretty much over. He still gets abused in the street for that ball. If something's legal it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
I hope a pit-window is available to admins in the near future :up:
This comes up almost every time pitstops are talked about. I'm curious as I'm not an F1 fan. What was the black flag? A drive through? A stop-and-go? How could he win just because his pitbox was after the finish line? He did it on the last lap, sure, but he didn't do the penalty. There is no way he could completely drive through, or do a stop-and-go if he crossed the line before completing this process! That is just horrible officiating of a race if they allowed him a win from that. He should have been disqualified because he did not honor the penalty before the race ended for him
illepall .1998 British GP
The Fake DTM series has two mandatory pitstops and a written rule against pitting on the last lap. This has proven to be both fun and challengeing, and adds a lot to the over all race. You have to have some strategy when to pit, what to do in the pits and you also have to be good at pitting to stand a chance to make it to the podium.
I think no one in the series think it's odd or boring to have it like this, and franlkly, I think a lot would be lost if the mandatory pitstops wheretaken away.
I think no one in the series think it's odd or boring to have it like this, and franlkly, I think a lot would be lost if the mandatory pitstops wheretaken away.
I agree completely, but on the other hand i dont think there should be REQUIRED pit stops in any race. If you force a pit stop in a 10lap race, that's not really "strategy", since everyone will just pit once, and things even out. Pitting should be used to gain what you think is a strategical advantage, not just pitting cuz the server admin says so.
Pitting on the last lap is pretty lame/sad. I mean, this is just a video game. I enjoy fun/close racing, winning is nice, but i'd rather lose and have a fun race, than win in the pitlane
Compulsory pitstop races exist in real life and these rules are usually put in place to deliberately provide variety by adding a strategic element. So in some racing you will see pitstops required and there may even be a defined pit window where you can only pit between lap x and y.
So it has it's uses in some areas.
Complulsory stops are featured in V8 Supercar races and it certainly spices things up in the strategy department, so I've no objection to them in principle. It's exciting to see at which point in the pit window the drivers are pitting and gives you a good look at their plan for the whole race.
I just don't see why people implement forced stops in short sprints on public LFS servers. 10 laps is barely long enough to warm your tyres in some cars
I just don't see why people implement forced stops in short sprints on public LFS servers. 10 laps is barely long enough to warm your tyres in some cars
I wouldn't have thought it would be too difficult to impliment a pit window to solve the problem of last lap pitters. i.e. pit stops only count between laps 2 and 10 in a 12 lap race (or something).
As for the debate on whether compulsary pit stops add anthing good to LFS, for me it depends on what mood I'm in. Sometimes I like the extra strategy it brings, and sometimes I can't be arsed.
As for the debate on whether compulsary pit stops add anthing good to LFS, for me it depends on what mood I'm in. Sometimes I like the extra strategy it brings, and sometimes I can't be arsed.
Put me down for a big NO on pitting on last lap
The thing with shortish (sub 15 lap) mandatory pits races is that if I damage my car on lap 1, I come in then to get it sorted.
But here's a thought: don't have mandatory pits on distances that wouldn't have pit stops IRL .
But here's a thought: don't have mandatory pits on distances that wouldn't have pit stops IRL
.Yet again i'm going to reply to a thread without reading it properly, flame me if you like, but here's my view on the original subject (on the remote possibility this thread has stayed on topic)
I would rather than pitting on the last lap did not negate the mandatory stop, however whilst it is possible to do this I will continue to pit on the last lap and gain advantage, because either someone else will and i'll loose out - or i'll gain an advantage over somebody because they didn't. It's as simple as that, I dont like it - but i'll push the rule whilst it is there to be pushed.
Show me one real racer who doesn't take a free get out of jail card like that, and i'll show you a back marker.
I would rather than pitting on the last lap did not negate the mandatory stop, however whilst it is possible to do this I will continue to pit on the last lap and gain advantage, because either someone else will and i'll loose out - or i'll gain an advantage over somebody because they didn't. It's as simple as that, I dont like it - but i'll push the rule whilst it is there to be pushed.
Show me one real racer who doesn't take a free get out of jail card like that, and i'll show you a back marker.
I said it once in another thread but perhaps instead of just enabling a Mandatory pit stop, the devs could create an accelerated fuel/tire wear rate system that could be enabled. That option is available in NR2003 and rFactor, to name 2.
With the cars burning fuel faster and wearing out tires quicker, drivers would actually have to pit for fresh tires and fuel rather than just sit there for a split second. And strategies would always be different based on how well a driver conserves fuel and preserves tires and not be a foregone conclusion like now with last-lap pitting.
With the cars burning fuel faster and wearing out tires quicker, drivers would actually have to pit for fresh tires and fuel rather than just sit there for a split second. And strategies would always be different based on how well a driver conserves fuel and preserves tires and not be a foregone conclusion like now with last-lap pitting.
That's because you are still in the mid pace field of racing, instead of the front runners
.You have a choice: Move up the order by 15 seconds, or stay where you are. There is no penalty or other factors involved in the decision, which do you take?
In other games that have this I have always enjoyed the feature, I like having strategy in a race, but dont necessarily want to race for 90 minutes to have it as a part of the race.
EDIT: @Dave - i'm not sure if you've won enough real life championships to call me a midfielder
...we should have windowed pitting
or mybee the pit doesn't count until you cross the first sector marker
LL pitting is wrong and anybody who does it are cheating fecktards.
or mybee the pit doesn't count until you cross the first sector marker
LL pitting is wrong and anybody who does it are cheating fecktards.
Nonsense.
*edit: sorry if I sound a bit harsh
Why pit on the last lap when you can pit on the first? You'd just catch up to, if not pass, all of the guys that pit on last lap anyways.
Seriously though, there's not really any point to doing it that way, those who pit in the middle though, those are the guys that can win the race, as they'll have brand new tires and no more damage, where as the people who try to take advantage have worn tires, or beat up cars. Just trying to use logic here I guess, but I don't know if my English is good enough to convey this correctly.
Seriously though, there's not really any point to doing it that way, those who pit in the middle though, those are the guys that can win the race, as they'll have brand new tires and no more damage, where as the people who try to take advantage have worn tires, or beat up cars. Just trying to use logic here I guess, but I don't know if my English is good enough to convey this correctly.
Plenty of racers win without taking advantage of these things 
. I saw lots of wins from people not taking advantage of the old aero bugs too. Compulsory pits stops are there for a reason it isn't just something you should have to do as an inconvenience.
How many of you are still stuck doing 5-10 lap races? Compulsory pits stops in the context of appropriate race distances are a great feature. +++++++1 for no pitting on last lap.
. I saw lots of wins from people not taking advantage of the old aero bugs too. Compulsory pits stops are there for a reason it isn't just something you should have to do as an inconvenience.How many of you are still stuck doing 5-10 lap races? Compulsory pits stops in the context of appropriate race distances are a great feature. +++++++1 for no pitting on last lap.
you only have to do 'half' a pit stop when you do it on the last lap,
you don't need to drive the pit lane exit for one of your 'race laps'
Finally, someone that makes sense
Pitting on very last lap, yay or nay?
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