Quote from ivantod :

Maybe lift off ????

How is that going to help? Seb's there There's no way lifting off will get him behind seb before the braking point.

and where was Tomy?On my right side.This one is stupidiest decision ever in history of NDR

Why do U guys hate me?Is it because i am Serbian? :P

Yeah NDR is so very racist. Or maybe your just over aggressive and get into loads of incidents... who knows?!?!?!

lol, you had lots of space between me there. And I had lots of space on my right, so I would have turned more right if you came down on me :P

shut up Tommy,u r not helping this way

Quote from CSF :

Or maybe your just over aggressive and get into loads of incidents... who knows?!?!?!

Did i have ANY incident in 12h KY3 MoE this year?

I tried to explain you why you got the penalty, but if it doesnt help, I will stay away then

No i understand their decision,but,IMO,this one is stupid.

Quote from ivantod :

Did i have ANY incident in 12h KY3 MoE this year?

LOL, advanced driver spotted?

i have permission from deko

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1289293#post1289293

Quote from ivantod :

i have permission from deko

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1289293#post1289293

*whoosh*

I got one more question.This "incident" was on start of the race.Protest appeal was written one hour after this "incident".Decision is made two weeks after,and we got +30 sec,so from 6th place we will get 21st place,because of SC finished race.
If that is ok,then i have no words how can i describe that kind of decision.

Quote from ivantod :

I got one more question.This "incident" was on start of the race.Protest appeal was written one hour after this "incident".Decision is made two weeks after,and we got +30 sec,so from 6th place we will get 21st place,because of SC finished race.
If that is ok,then i have no words how can i describe that kind of decision.

Sorry but you can't argue "we lost too many places because of the penalty, it's wrong". That would be against all logic and reason.

If you caused the accident the penalty is well deserved. If you didn't... well my sympathies. I haven't looked into the matter personally and I won't look into it (because of several reasons right now) so I can't comment on weather the penalty was justified or not but the penalties are the same for everyone which should be all that matters.

Quote from ivantod :

I got one more question.This "incident" was on start of the race.Protest appeal was written one hour after this "incident".Decision is made two weeks after,and we got +30 sec,so from 6th place we will get 21st place,because of SC finished race.
If that is ok,then i have no words how can i describe that kind of decision.

Conspiracy!!

Conspiracy !!!!

I knew it !!!!

The penalty was a standard 30 second one, equivalent to your standard DT Penalty. Whether it is a SC finish or not, the penalty WILL stay the same. Yes, it may be unfortunate for you, but an incident deserving of a 30 second penalty will recieve a 30 second penalty, regardless of conditions around you.

Quote from ivantod :

Conspiracy !!!!

I knew it !!!!

Yes, this is a conspiracy.
When you make a mistake, that ruins the race of someone else, and you get the penalty, surely it is a conspiracy against not the team, but only you, your nationality, your parents and your pets. They are at fault here, so do not blame NDR


What the **** are you on about dude?
You got the penalty, you got a viable explanation, and you keep crying here on your knees for no reason. Get over it, and deal with the consequences of your own problems. Or don't race, please.

I owe you a pint.

I see that a precedent is being set here (penalty applied after a safety car finish situation), so I think a revisit of the penalty and the application should be made. Whether or not the penalty is deserved is one thing, but the application of the penalty here seems to punish the team more harshly than the crime warrants. Perhaps if the incident occured very late in the race, the penalty of 20 grid spots (or whatever) might be justified, but this incident occured very early, and, in my view, should have been dealt with early as well.
This appears to be a situation that hasn't occurred before in GTAL, nor, to my knowledge in MoE and IGTC and I don't think it happens often in real life.

I have a couple of suggestions for this type of situation.

1) Make it a flat grid penalty, 5 spots seems to a reasonable number. (Edit: I mean in the finishing order, not grid for next race. Yes, poorly worded)
2) Examine the situation before the final yellow. Decide how many positions they likely would have lost.

Jonathan

Quote from JayEyeBee :

I see that a precedent is being set here (penalty applied after a safety car finish situation), so I think a revisit of the penalty and the application should be made. Whether or not the penalty is deserved is one thing, but the application of the penalty here seems to punish the team more harshly than the crime warrants. Perhaps if the incident occured very late in the race, the penalty of 20 grid spots (or whatever) might be justified, but this incident occured very early, and, in my view, should have been dealt with early as well.
This appears to be a situation that hasn't occurred before in GTAL, nor, to my knowledge in MoE and IGTC and I don't think it happens often in real life.

I have a couple of suggestions for this type of situation.

1) Make it a flat grid penalty, 5 spots seems to a reasonable number.
2) Examine the situation before the final yellow. Decide how many positions they likely would have lost.

Jonathan

In spite of my joking, I tend to agree. The incident happened early in the race and should have been dealt with accordingly. Instead, they got royally dicked with the SC finish. I won't argue that they don't deserve a penalty, but I think we take for granted that a post-race 30-second penalty will have a similar outcome to a DT. When cars are moving well below race pace, that obviously doesn't apply.

A grid penalty won't solve this because grid position isn't nearly as relevant in endurance events as it is in other forms of racing. If it were up to me, I'd take the fastest race lap, divide it by the first-place finishers' final lap, then multiply the 30 seconds by that number. I haven't done it myself, but I'd expect it to end up being around 10 or 15 seconds. That would be a lot more fair.

At the very least to combat the fact that (even on non-SC finishes) 30s isn't always equal to a DT in race and as some decisions may be deferred to after-race to properly assess the situation, the actual in-race time loss for a DT/SG should be measured and applied after-race, to make things fairer .

Quote from tmehlinger :

If it were up to me, I'd take the fastest race lap, divide it by the first-place finishers' final lap, then multiply the 30 seconds by that number. I haven't done it myself, but I'd expect it to end up being around 10 or 15 seconds. That would be a lot more fair.

After doing the math the ratio is about .65, leaving a 19.6ish penalty. Still a drop from 6th to 20th, is that what you had intended?

Jonathan

+30 sec after last SC deploy,and that is 5 grid spots i think.

Okay, here's what we'll do.

The +30s penalty will stand.

BUT

The penalty will be applied to the order as it was at the last lap before the Safety Car was called out.

This will occur in future for all events that the race ends under SC.

For an incident that occurs before the final SC, but does not get a penalty result (if there is one) until after the race, the TIME penalty (not lap or anything else) will be applied to the order before the final SC came out. If the incident caused the SC or occurred after that point in time, the penalty will be applied to the finishing result.

d