I know this thread is highly pointless, but I don't care. after wasting the last 3 hours trying to get to grips with rFactor, i'm angry and i want to rant!

I've got a small list of things:

It feels like you're driving a boat
It looks terrible
It is a pain in the arse to configure
It won't work with my clutch/shifter
the tracks are basic
the cars are rough
the physics as a whole are completely fictional
it has a really weird purchase/unlocking system
it is virtually impossible to drive quickly without turning on at least some of the over-invasive driving aids


apart from those things (and a few more i'm sure to think of later) it's a great game, the sound is actually quite good, and i'm sure it has it's fans.

feel free to delete this thread as pointless, I just fancy slagging rFactor off since ISI conned me into wasting 29.99

Long live LFS!

I thought RF done a money back deal?

Are you insane???

You forgot something, it is absoloutly no fun whatsoever!

This isnt just reactionary, i didnt get the moneyback as i felt should give it a fair chance, and i have.

The menus are annoying, the configuration is annoying. You would feel more like you were driving round in a car if you rolled down a hill on an office chair. It is truly terrible.

I have extracted far more fun out of NetKar which is massively unfinished compared to rfactor. and comparing rfactor to lfs just doesnt bare thinking about.

I suppose the customisation is a plus, but the fact that the many mods i have tried just arent fun to drive and dont feel realistic in any sense, it defeats the point.

You don't like rFactor? Big deal, stop crying and get over it.

People in this forum have had the pros and cons of every driving sim available done to death and it's incredibly boring now.

Quote from WorldFamous :

You don't like rFactor? Big deal, stop crying and get over it.

People in this forum have had the pros and cons of every driving sim available done to death and it's incredibly boring now.

so ignore the thread and move on

Yup.. basic tracks and screens that look terrible

(DX8)



(DX9)






Regards,

Ian

The worst thing in my opinion is that it requires a pretty fast computer and NO SUPPORT FOR MOUSE players wich omg fkin scks

Quote from sil3ntwar :

so ignore the thread and move on

ooooh gottem

rfactor only looks as good as the textures used...
its the same as LFS.. put sh*t textures on lfs and it will ... look like sh*t lol

i think its okay.. but its the same as all other games out there right now..

Quote from Slidaaaa :

The worst thing in my opinion is that it requires a pretty fast computer and NO SUPPORT FOR MOUSE players wich omg fkin scks

I only have an AMD3000+, FX5900XT and 1Gb RAM which is hardly top of the range today and don't have any problems in DX8 mode (the DX9 shot above was taken from a replay.. my box can't handle playing in DX9 and the replay was like a slideshow )

As for 'no mouse support'.. it's supposed to be a sim.. how many real cars do you know of that can be controlled by a mouse / keyboard!?

Please note that isn't a cue for a "sim vs game" discussion.. I don't personally care.. as long as something's fun to drive, that'll do me.. if I want real, I'll buy a race car neither am I on an "rF is better than [insert any other sim here]" mission.. nothing has to be mutually exclusive.. it's my choice for the modding ability.. if LFS was modable too, I'd be digging into both sets of files. That said, although I feel the tyres are now a bit too grippy (in a weird kinda way) / "spongy" in LFS, the first night I tried it after my long break (patch S I think) I had a blast in the XRT at South City. That car seems to have improved quite a bit (was always my favourite since S1) and nope, rF tyres are far from perfect too (always feel like they're too hard to me and seem to have a very strange slip curve that makes powersliding / countersteering a digital decision rather than analogue).. but can be sorted partially (PCC mod has more rubbery feeling tyres.. same as it did and the later SCC patch had for F1C).

If / when modding tools for LFS become available.. I'll certainly be having a go with that too

Totally agree with XCN's statement about textures too. The track in the DX9 shot above had really bad tarmac originally. I made the one you see from scratch as 1024x1024 (to replace the 512x512 version) which IMO doesn't look too bad (first attempt at track texturing), but if you check the grass area out, although in reality, it seems VIR is quite "marshy" looking, the low-res grass ingame to try and replicate that has come out VERY bad (looks more like a 64x64 sized texture stretched with no tiling ). I converted this from GTL which people rave about the gfx from.. but the net result there is the same, the grass looks crap.. no matter what game it's in



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Ian.H :

As for 'no mouse support'.. it's supposed to be a sim.. how many real cars do you know of that can be controlled by a mouse / keyboard!?

worst argument in the world. A mouse can easily recreate what is required to steer a car.

Quote :

I only have an AMD3000+, FX5900XT and 1Gb RAM which is hardly top of the range today and don't have any problems in DX8 mode (the DX9 shot above was taken from a replay.. my box can't handle playing in DX9 and the replay was like a slideshow )

you should take a look how it runs whit my geforce2 and 384mb ram,1.6ghz.

Quote :

As for 'no mouse support'.. it's supposed to be a sim.. how many real cars do you know of that can be controlled by a mouse / keyboard!?

They allow keyboard but doesnt allow mouse, is keyboard more realistic (or less unrealistic) than mouse ? *sarcasm*

Quote :

Please note that isn't a cue for a "sim vs game" discussion.. I don't personally care.. as long as something's fun to drive, that'll do me.. if I want real, I'll buy a race car

Good for you,because i can't buy a race car, as more real things feel,more fun i have whit games.

Quote from Slidaaaa :

you should take a look how it runs whit my geforce2 and 384mb ram,1.6ghz.

heh, but that's pushing boundaries. LFS didn't run so hot before I got my 5900XT either.. but with rF, I run limited grids.. normally 14-16 with ~8 cars visible at any time.. most ingame settings at high and shadows at max. On average, I'm running ~28-32fps amongst some traffic but capped to 36fps max (which it hits fine running solo(ish)).

That said, I do get _much_ better FPS in LFS.. double for the most part. LFS has always been very resource-friendly in that dept. When I started with S1, I only had a PII350 and an onboard 64Mb vid chip. I had things running on lowish settings and didn't have great FPS, but it worked The main time I have FPS issues with LFS is the likes of T1 of BL1 racing the AI as they seem to be oblivious to the fact there's a chicane there and cause a massive pile-up creating lots of physics calculations and dust from hitting the grass.. but once I'm out of that, can run at the back of an 11 AI pack with 45+ FPS.. just as a comparison.

Quote :

They allow keyboard but doesnt allow mouse, is keyboard more realistic (or less unrealistic) than mouse ? *sarcasm*

HAH I didn't actually think of that I would still say the same for any race game / sim though.. even if LFS dropped support for both.. if you want things to be as real as possible within the given environment, then using a wheel is the first place to start IMO. My old gamepad I started with was great fun, but getting a wheel has certainly increased the fun factor of any racing game I've played.. but point taken about (lack of) realism with keys

Quote :

Good for you,because i can't buy a race car, as more real things feel,more fun i have whit games.

I can't either.. and like yourself, if it is more realistic then great.. but hell, I still love classic style games like GeneRally and most 80s arcade classics.. must be me age.

My point here really was that I just find it amusing that people want everything so real, while sitting in a bedroom in an office chair holding a £50 plastic steering wheel connected to a flat screen by a few wires.. irrespective of what they're playing and not necessarily limited to the driving genre either although that's my only real interest in non-80s gaming



Regards,

Ian

Those screenies don't look that great, still very cartoony. Tracks seem alright, but I can't stop laughing at the cars (although I can't knock the models).

Cartoony in which way Bob? The specular / sheen primarily in the car body? The materials are completely adjustable within 3DS (within the given shader capabilities anyway.. of which can also be custom made if you know how.. no idea personally) although more limited to the end user down to spec maps and alpha channels for sheen / reflectivity.

rF's biggest flaw in this area I think is the ambient colouring. it's all too blue. Again this can be controlled on a per-track basis with sunlight RGB values and position, but not sure if you can completely overcome that look.

Anyways, was just curious.. and even moreso, how do you rate this look (cars, not track)? It's WIP, but looking for criticism in that respect in hopes I can make it not (so) cartoony looking



Regards,

Ian

Sorry, Ian, were your screenshots intended to highlight good or bad things about rF? Honest (if stupid) question.

heh, I was hoping good.. but are they that bad?

My box isn't the best for taking screenshots, but I'm not here to sell the game either.. I just happened to think they're weren't that bad and mainly in response to 'basic tracks' (Nords... basic!?) and 'rough cars' (again, I think the models are pretty sweet! but they are beta versions too, although nearly complete I think)

I actually prefer LFS' overall colouring, a lot seems much more natural (DX9 actually in rF I think looks worse than DX8 in an "overpowering" kind of sense in most cases but these are all a few month old screenshots and don't have any more recent ones).

I've never been involved in anything like this in the past, so decent discussions of this nature I find very interesting and I learn from, hence my query above to Bob



Regards,

Ian

Thanks for the explanation. My non-expert opinion was that the car models looked fine but that the environments seemed a bit "1990s" and reminded me of GPL tracks: things like one flat grass texture all the way to a vertical wall of tree texture, etc.

Having said that, I remember being underwhelmed by LFS's graphics when I first downloaded the demo and looked at the view from the Blackwood starting line. However, shortly after that I started driving the car and I don't remember thinking about the issue since.

rFactor isn't LFS.

I am not rF biggest fan, but even I can see it's merits, rF with the Megane cup mod, and the eurospeedway is a pretty decent sim, although the default content is a steaming pile of pants.

As for the "fictional" physics, LFS's physics are'nt 100% "non-fictional" either, there are some oddities that need fixing before it can be called realistic.

I have both, I play LFS more because it floats my boat more than anything else, but that doesnt mean I never play any other race sim.

Dan,

Ahh yes.. all 3 screens are taken on converted tracks. Nords was originally done by $limebin for their GTR2002 mod baaack in the day and is in a mid-state beta conversion by Stoney. This track has had more conversions and bits and pieces over the years than any other I'm guessing but really to bring this up to any modern sim standards more than a texture update, there needs to be a lot of polys added to objects and the likes

The middle pic is of Hungaroring convered by Damon. He did a pretty good job on the track I think (originally from F1C) and was during his learning stages (I also think my box had auto-swapped texture detail / mip-level as the tarmac there looks a little unsharp).

The last is VIR done by Tantra for GTL (possibly a GTR conversion of his own work) and is my first attempt at track conversions. Not complete, but doubt it'd be the best as I'm still learning (prefer to build tracks from scratch however)

The trees issue is the infamous "x-tree syndrome" I think. I hear rF can handle better tree objects than x-trees, but can't say I've seen evidence of this yet, neither have I looked myself.. but they most definitely don't sway like they do in LFS, unfortunately.

Some people building tracks now are adding more detail, like vertical planes to map blades of grass to to give a more 3D feeling for the scenery so it can be better, but like many things, depends on the efforts put forward and what's been learnt so far (rF came with no documentation and although ISI have provided great support.. nothing beats having a manual in front of you.. especially with such an open project so people are still learnign as they go).

When I first saw LFS (0.3F I think).. I was amazed! heh. The only other recent car game I'd played until that point was GranTurismo 2 on the PS1 and was the first game other than Virtual Pool that I'd played on me PC so it looked stunning

I think some textures could do with refining in LFS.. tarmac mainly, but also think Eric's done a great job looking at the textures provided and how they fit on the tracks.. but like you say, once you're in the car and the red mist fills your lid... the grass could be pink for all it matters



Regards,

Ian

Here we go again.

rFactor would be fine, IF they would actually have paid more attention to the physics (which matters the most in sims) rather than eyecandy (which I don't think is that great either in it) and making the game easier to play rather than being a hardcore simulator.

When I gave rFactor a proper try, the control configuration drove me mad. Since I have 2 wheels connected (other one just for the clutch), I had to select WHICH one I wanted to use in game, couldn't use them both in the same time. What kind of stupid un-trained monkey programmed the configuration? This is how it also works in all other GTL/GTR games. It was pretty pointless using my shifter if I couldn't use clutch together with it.

Another disappointment is how the wheel rotation is done in the game. LFS does it pretty realistically, the wheel turns 720 degrees in the game (depending on car), where in rFactor it only turns like what, 200 degrees? Looks pretty dumb when you're using 900/720 degrees with DFP and the wheel in rFactor only turns a measly 200 degrees. These are only a few things that keeps me away from rFactor.

The AI was ok I guess. They have to be ok since the multiplayer sucks in rFactor and all you're left with is offline practice.

I won't even start talking about the physics/driving part as they are quite worthless. I guess I've been spoiled by LFS in this area.

There. I said it.

A lot of things drive me mad in rFactor too... but to be honest, I don't think it is a complete waste of money. It at least has been of good use for when I am completely bored and want to have a go in some crappy mod

I have only had fun with the Porsche Cup mod on Laguna Seca... but even that is not top stuff. There is no Laguna Seca made that is as accurate as the real thing for rFactor... but I guess that's modding for yah

I've never really enjoyed the online experience, it is always its big drawback from what you perceive its goal to be ("Connect"!!! :rolleyes: ). It really is just a fun AI/Singleplayer game... bout all I can say. And I would be involved with the modding portion if it looked better graphics wise.

I'm sorry if i upset anybody by slagging rFactor off. I'd just spent the day working on my Pb at fernbay green Rev (1.13.20 since you asked ) and a few hours racing doorhandle-doorhandle at AS_club, To jump straight into Rfactor was a mistake, it really isn't comparable to LFS.

I didn't know about the money back thingie, but i'm pretty sure I won't be able to get a refund since i bought it when it came out.

yes, you're screenies look nice Ian, but graphics are not something i find hugely important (been playing proper race-sims since 1995 )

It's a good game for those with no previous sim experience at all, If you've played LFS for very long, the competition looks/feels pretty poor whatever it is (havn't tried NkPro yet )

Quote from Theafro :

It's a good game for those with no previous sim experience at all, If you've played LFS for very long, the competition looks/feels pretty poor whatever it is (havn't tried NkPro yet )

You've got to be a little carefull, because DIFFERENT, doesnt always mean POOR.

rF is just a very different game, and if you are used to LFS (and some of its curious ways) then anything will feel strange, its like putting on a new pair of pants.........

Dan,

The thing that I dislike most bout rF is the modding. I've read a lot of the "modding hell" with 5 versions of the same mod and usually at least 3 mods running per server, so you either have a specific group of people to race with with specific mods and cars (obviously a league) or you can scrap rF and look for a different sim.

I like league-racing and drive in two leagues plus the ATC GPs, but I do like to just join different races anytime I want, without any hassle.

Vain

Firstly let me say I own, play and enjoy both rFactor and LFS, but I feel there are a few points made here that are totally false.

Quote from Matrixi :

Since I have 2 wheels connected (other one just for the clutch), I had to select WHICH one I wanted to use in game, couldn't use them both in the same time. What kind of stupid un-trained monkey programmed the configuration? This is how it also works in all other GTL/GTR games. It was pretty pointless using my shifter if I couldn't use clutch together with it.

That is simply not true. I have a DFP and MSFF connected, and had no problems at all setting them up. Click click click done. I don't know what your problem is, but your claim that rFactor can't use more than one controller is wrong.

Quote from Matrixi :

Another disappointment is how the wheel rotation is done in the game. LFS does it pretty realistically, the wheel turns 720 degrees in the game (depending on car), where in rFactor it only turns like what, 200 degrees? Looks pretty dumb when you're using 900/720 degrees with DFP and the wheel in rFactor only turns a measly 200 degrees. These are only a few things that keeps me away from rFactor.

The amount of wheel rotation is customisable per vehicle, it's just not in the GUI like it is in LFS, you have to edit a text file.

Quote from Matrixi :

The AI was ok I guess. They have to be ok since the multiplayer sucks in rFactor and all you're left with is offline practice.

I'm sorry but that's simply not true either. In my experience (as a long-time administrator of both LFS and rF servers) the rFactor netcode is at least on par with LFS, maybe even slightly superior (don't shoot, I said maybe ).

Ok rant over, can we get back to racing now?