Quote from PMD9409 :

For people that take this serious, you sure aren't willing to learn.

Learn by what? I bet he wont learn much by having a guest car driving miles in front of him. :P

I voted no, since we are eager to get into this league ...
Imo we don't learn much from guest teams. As I understood the GTALeague it's suposed to learn noobs and rookies how you do endurance races with driver swaps, setups and tactics. Your place at the grid and the result table speaks for it self at the end of the day. A guest team don't change that or put you down a place unless you don't beat them.
For us on the waiting list we learn more by racing then watching!!

IMO it depends on how you view the GTAL.

1. An way to gain experience in Endurance Racing
   
2. A pathway to IGTC/MoE
   

If you're in GTAL for #1, then you don't want/need guest teams. If you're in the second category, then yes it could be useful.

Quote from Tomhah :

Learn by what? I bet he wont learn much by having a guest car driving miles in front of him. :P

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

Quote from PMD9409 :

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

I due hope youre right there. However I highly doubt if we will. I dont know how the restrictions are setup in MoE but in GTAL the difference atm is too much. The difference a lape on a long track is around 2 or 3 seconds. I can see the FZR and XRR just ran off in the distance. I cant really learn from that.

Quote from PMD9409 :

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

pfff...

You're better off with watching replays of MoE.

If most of the guys who actually drive says we dont need it, I bet they dont. Its better that 1 more team races, than having a guest-team, imo.

Thankfully, it isn't up to you. I'm sure Deko realises the importance of the guest team, and it will stay

Quote from GianniC :

- They often provide more frustration than joy; not all guest teams perform well and are as pro as they might look - they can also cause crashes during races with championship consequences for us but zero for them.

If I want to race MoE or IGTC folks I'd join those leagues and not GTAL. Imho the "amateurism" in GTAL really isn't so present as I had expected / hoped for in GTAL. Not really sure (aside that I suck, obviously) why I signed up for GTAL and not for IGTC.

Let's be honest I or Gil have more chance of doing IGTC than you so chuck that strawman out the window, thanks.

Obviously you haven't seen any of last year's races where CoRe had a great fight with Karma at R1, #low werent that far ahead of EER in R2, R3 n/a, spdo had a 3 way battle for the lead with E-team and the Polish team, R5 n/a, the teams there were good additions to the field.

So yeah for once I agree with Gil

Don't see that much of the big deal tbh Tommy and Ken are now MoE drivers and both have participated in IGTC. Most of the guest teams don't field the big big guns anyway, because most of them are inactive, only MoE brings them back to LFS.

So if you want to moan about guest teams, then i suggest you pull out too as its unfair now because you have a seat in MoE (and as far as i know always could have if you could be bothered) its just a little rich coming from you Ken. Tommy is not as bad because at the start of the season he had to team, you had one with 2 cars and your a good driver, big fish little pond and all that... Tommy has a harder time with 1 car and the reigning champs as his team. Have a nice time cheating the whole purpose of the league.

I have NOT participated in either MoE or IGTC :P But I might retire from GTAL, now that Im most probably gonna do MoE. But Im for that you can do MoE AFTER a started GTAL season, as that can help the step from GTAL to MoE to be a bit smoother.

For drivers like you and Ken there shouldn't even be a step, its not some magical league, if your a good driver and have some decent reults there will be no problems all the drivers in there cureently have had no "step" it should be for drivers new to endurance racing, even though its actually not a whole lot different to say a 20minute race. The only reason it would be usefull is for teams taking on someone who shows potential but not at MoE level, to see what they can do.

You two are already experienced in alot of leagues, so what the need is for you two to drive GTAL i really do not know, ill go back to the big fish in a small pond idea...

Quote from J@tko :

IMO it depends on how you view the GTAL.

1. An way to gain experience in Endurance Racing
   
2. A pathway to IGTC/MoE
   

If you're in GTAL for #1, then you don't want/need guest teams. If you're in the second category, then yes it could be useful.

+1.

Guest teams will stay for now. I'll leave this thread open until either

a) The discussion runs its due course (when the horse is dead and still being beaten) or
b) Nothing but attacks or comments directed at one.

I've deleted several posts that fall under the category of b).

Let's keep this discussion civil and about the pros and cons and your reasons for wanting/not wanting a guest team.

But let's be sure to focus on Round 2 which is currently very much higher on the importance scale than whether or not to have a guest team.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

For drivers like you and Ken there shouldn't even be a step, its not some magical league, if your a good driver and have some decent reults there will be no problems all the drivers in there cureently have had no "step" it should be for drivers new to endurance racing, even though its actually not a whole lot different to say a 20minute race. The only reason it would be usefull is for teams taking on someone who shows potential but not at MoE level, to see what they can do.

You two are already experienced in alot of leagues, so what the need is for you two to drive GTAL i really do not know, ill go back to the big fish in a small pond idea...

We drive in GTAL for fun and for wins... just like were all suppost to be playing this game for FUN and competitiveness.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

For drivers like you and Ken there shouldn't even be a step, its not some magical league, if your a good driver and have some decent reults there will be no problems all the drivers in there cureently have had no "step" it should be for drivers new to endurance racing, even though its actually not a whole lot different to say a 20minute race. The only reason it would be usefull is for teams taking on someone who shows potential but not at MoE level, to see what they can do.

You two are already experienced in alot of leagues, so what the need is for you two to drive GTAL i really do not know, ill go back to the big fish in a small pond idea...

I didnt say that I needed it. But imo, its good for new guys to LFS/endurance. The rule isnt good for me, as its correct what you say, I can do MoE for a not-top-team. I was a backup for F1RST at Westhill, so I couldnt drive for anyone else. I did R1 of GTAL, as I havent done many endurance races in my past, and thought it was a nice opertunity for me to gain some more experience, and to show what I got. Now, I havent had any time to practise for GTAL, because I have practised for MoE. Thats why I think I will retire from GTAL, because there's no point in driving just for driving, when MoE takes my time. I think its some kind of "unfair" for the other drivers :P So, there yah go :P

Quote from PMD9409 :

For people that take this serious, you sure aren't willing to learn.

Theres quite a few fast teams up the front of GTAL who are plenty fast enough for us to learn from.

Quote from dekojester :

Guest teams will stay for now. I'll leave this thread open until.....

Thats a shock....
Not.

Quote :

1. A way to gain experience in Endurance Racing
2. A pathway to IGTC/MoE

GTAL is here to give rookies a chance to gain endurance racing experience, that's how GTAL was introduced to us. And the big difference between 1 & 2 is.... euhm, what exactly? It can give a pathway to racing in IGTC but that's up to yourself in my eyes. If you're quick enough in laptimes I don't see that much difference between IGTC and GTAL at all.

Quote :

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

You're not faster because of a team driving in front of you for 3-6 or 12 hours. You get faster because you analyse replays, work on setup creating, teambuilding and doing your mileage. You gain the needed confident and experience by winning racing battles in GTAL, no guest team at all needed for that.. in fact, the opposite! You need equal competitors in order to gain dueling and passing experience.

If the guest team would for example post well upfront the qualify their qualifying setup or for the race their racing setup with detailled information on why exactly the camber in the set is set on -0.2 and not on +0.4 on this specific track (for example); then we can start talking about them contributing to our speed, setup creating skills and learning. But for now I really lack to see what they contribute to GTAL. Give us a 30th team and more racing action on our own amateur level.

If you want to compare yourself on MoE level, go practice some on the public servers who're crowded with MoE racers when they are training in the last week before a race. Simple really.

Quote :

Guest teams will stay for now. I'll leave this thread open until either

Don't forget to give the poll voting result a look as well... 60% says remove.

Quote from CSF :

This is an NDR event why should they listen to the poll?

I didn't said they are forced to listen or follow up the poll result, I merely said don't forget to give a look at the pool. Looking doesn't harm, touching however....

Exactly touching it just now would cause harm, we agree.

And 10 of the votes to keep guest teams are none-GTAL drivers.

And there are 11 or so voting for no guest teams ken so whats your point?

Theres 4..

Canadian schools must be really terrible then.

Quote from Cawwa :

I voted no, since we are eager to get into this league ...
Imo we don't learn much from guest teams. As I understood the GTALeague it's suposed to learn noobs and rookies how you do endurance races with driver swaps, setups and tactics. Your place at the grid and the result table speaks for it self at the end of the day. A guest team don't change that or put you down a place unless you don't beat them.
For us on the waiting list we learn more by racing then watching!!

+1

I think the best way the "pro´s" can help is during the practice. Helping as many teams they can to be faster. They can make practice races, where we can try to challenge them, but when the real GTAL race starts, they don´t need to be there.

So if a pro team is just there for showing they are the fastest, i cannot see the point. It´s about helping, not showing off.

Quote from Humbleridderen :

+1

I think the best way the "pro´s" can help is during the practice. Helping as many teams they can to be faster. They can make practice races, where we can try to challenge them, but when the real GTAL race starts, they don´t need to be there.

So if a pro team is just there for showing they are the fastest, i cannot see the point. It´s about helping, not showing off.

:doh: The guest team has only won once. If the guys up front (the ones most likely to make the step to MoE/IGTC) are having a battle with a MoE/IGTC team how is that not beneficial? Read the thread, many people have points out that the guest team doesn't fly away from the field and show that they are fastest.

On the other hand, if the guest teams shows up and laps the entire field then that would be a great wake up call that we ALL screwed up at that event. Either way, it's a great motivator (though positive or negative reinforcement, really up to us GTAL guys to decide).

Quote :

The guest team has only won once.

Exactly! So what are they actually contributing besides DENYING another amateur team of participating in this great experience and well run league ?!