the more I drive the more I am puzzled by the game. I am not a very good driver but I seem to miss some essentials while driving against the computer drivers on amateur level. I drive currently on Aston Cadet reverse with the FW08. I can drive generally about 2 seconds faster than the computer drivers but.....

(1)
when I get into the sand I lose about 2-3 minutes to get out. The computer drivers take a couple of seconds to do the same. What I am doing wrong ?

(2)
When they ram my car, my car seems to get damaged, while their seems not to suffer any damage. Do I have a game setting wrong ?

(3)
If there is any damage to their cars it gets reapired in the pits, while mine stays damaged . Most races are gone after lap 1 as my car gets wrecked by a deliberate crash from behind. The car is then damaged beyond repeair. Why ?

(4)
So far my only winning tactic is to stay behind the field in lap 1, then make my pit stop right away, close the gap until the AI drivers have to pit and overtake the field in that moment. Any dispursed traffic will result in deliberate crashes from behind and lost race unless I carefully avoid to drive the best line. How can I win races by driving normally ?

(5)
All AI drivers seem to drive the same line no matter what grip they have. What makes the skill level of an AI driver and can it be changed somehow ?

Or do I get the whole thing wrong and I am not supposed to race with the AI drivers but just watch races ?

First of all, as LfS is an Online Racing simulator, thus, the AI is quite flawed. But unlike other games, the AI doesn't cheat, meaning it controls cars which follow the same physics and damage rules as you.

and now to the points:

1) If you haven't set the AI to use your setup, then they drive with the standard one, which has a lot of ground clearance, which makes it easier for them to exit sand and gravel traps.

2) They do suffer damage, but how visible it is varies very much. The damage in LfS is very rudamentary though, so the worst thing that can happen to you and the AI is a bent suspension.

3) You can set what's to happen at a pitstop in the garage. Just enable "repair damage at pitstop" there.

4)
You make two mistakes here: first of all, the AI doesn't deliberately crash you, it's just oblivious of your whereabouts most of the time, which can and will cause problems if you want to use the same space at the same time. The only real advice I can give is: drive defensively and carefully. That goes for online racing too.

5)
That's a known AI problem and can't be helped at the moment.

Conclusively I might add that you get much more enjoyment out of LfS if you drive online against people. It's also the best place to learn how to drive.

Also, there's a german speaking live for speed community at www.live-for-speed.de

Quote from Edelbaer :

the more I drive the more I am puzzled by the game. I am not a very good driver but I seem to miss some essentials while driving against the computer drivers on amateur level. I drive currently on Aston Cadet reverse with the FW08. I can drive generally about 2 seconds faster than the computer drivers but.....

(1)
when I get into the sand I lose about 2-3 minutes to get out. The computer drivers take a couple of seconds to do the same. What I am doing wrong ?

(2)
When they ram my car, my car seems to get damaged, while their seems not to suffer any damage. Do I have a game setting wrong ?

(3)
If there is any damage to their cars it gets reapired in the pits, while mine stays damaged . Most races are gone after lap 1 as my car gets wrecked by a deliberate crash from behind. The car is then damaged beyond repeair. Why ?

(4)
So far my only winning tactic is to stay behind the field in lap 1, then make my pit stop right away, close the gap until the AI drivers have to pit and overtake the field in that moment. Any dispursed traffic will result in deliberate crashes from behind and lost race unless I carefully avoid to drive the best line. How can I win races by driving normally ?

(5)
All AI drivers seem to drive the same line no matter what grip they have. What makes the skill level of an AI driver and can it be changed somehow ?

Or do I get the whole thing wrong and I am not supposed to race with the AI drivers but just watch races ?

try to race online, lfs is an online racing simulator.

the AI in lfs isnt the best thing tbh, also press F12 then choose "Repair damage Yes" then your car will be repaired when pitting.
In the Single player screen you can change the AI difficulty at top left.

Quote from Edelbaer :

(1)
when I get into the sand I lose about 2-3 minutes to get out. The computer drivers take a couple of seconds to do the same. What I am doing wrong ?

You haven't described what exactly you're doing, so it's a guessing game My guess, you're not feathering the throttle accurately enough to get more bite and less wheelspin. Drive online instead!

Quote :

(2)
When they ram my car, my car seems to get damaged, while their seems not to suffer any damage. Do I have a game setting wrong ?

When the AI get damaged badly enough they reset themselves. You might be able to prevent this with the no reset option, not sure. Drive online instead!

Quote :

(3)
If there is any damage to their cars it gets reapired in the pits, while mine stays damaged . Most races are gone after lap 1 as my car gets wrecked by a deliberate crash from behind. The car is then damaged beyond repeair. Why ?

- Are you sure you're stopping inside the pit box?
- Having a penalty when going into the pits might prevent a pit stop
- Having you chosen to not fix damage in the F12 menu?
- Drive online instead!

Quote :

(4)
So far my only winning tactic is to stay behind the field in lap 1, then make my pit stop right away, close the gap until the AI drivers have to pit and overtake the field in that moment. Any dispursed traffic will result in deliberate crashes from behind and lost race unless I carefully avoid to drive the best line. How can I win races by driving normally ?

Drive online instead! I'm serious, btw. LFS AI is incomplete, and it isn't properly aware of other cars around. They simply don't drive like an RL racer would. You'll get far fairer races online. If you're not up to speed, start at the back, ask for setups and tips.

Quote :

(5)
All AI drivers seem to drive the same line no matter what grip they have. What makes the skill level of an AI driver and can it be changed somehow ?

You can change the AI's skill with the amateur / pro / whatever, not sure what difference it makes these days though. The AI use the same 'learning' file, so they inevitably learn exactly the same thing and drive like each other.

Quote :

Or do I get the whole thing wrong and I am not supposed to race with the AI drivers but just watch races ?

Like I said, AI is incomplete. It's not a real racing challenge at this time, and to be blunt, I'd just not bother driving against them except maybe in the tutorials.

Stop playing in single player mode, start playing online. It's the best choice you'll ever make. Start with low population servers for a smoother experience

Hello folks,
many thanks for the replies. Here my comments:

(1)
I usually drive a lot of clearance, so I doubt that is the reason but will compare setups.

(3)
I was not aware of that option. Problem solved. Thank you very much !

(4)
driving defensivley does not help if you are just swept of the track from behind. Basically the AI just tries to drive through me.

(5)
I am not talking about absolute driving skill. I can set the level for all drivers and they indeed drive faster or slower then, but how does the AI determine the relative speed from driver to driver ? random ?

(new 6)
I just noticed the *.drv files. Does anybody know what the values in there mean ?

Regards getting out of the gravel traps, if you try full throttle or feathering it and it still doesn't work, turn the the wheel from side to side and you will eventually get out.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

You can change the AI's skill with the amateur / pro / whatever, not sure what difference it makes these days though. The AI use the same 'learning' file, so they inevitably learn exactly the same thing and drive like each other.

Just for the record, wasn't the AI modified so that they don't learn anymore?

Inspired by this thread I tried to race with a full grid of AI and it really was as horrible as described. Don't try that at home folks, stay online instead!

They were modified, but I thought the modification was that they all use the same learning file. Previously they all had a separate one each

@frokki:

Many thanks for trying that yourself, but what is the analysis? Superficially I would say that the AI is not aware of the race situation, meaning that each AI driver drives as if the car is the only one on the track. It seems not to be able to leave the ideal line to overtake a slower car on the ideal line.

The development of the thread really intrigues me now. The discussion about the capabilities of the individual AI drivers made me really curious. I hope you guys are willing to tell me more about this.

Greetings

Kaspar

Quote from frokki :

Inspired by this thread I tried to race with a full grid of AI and it really was as horrible as described. Don't try that at home folks, stay online instead!

Basically AIs lack the concept of overlap and they stick to their racing line like their life depended on it.

IMO the trick to beating them is passing them in corners, they will even stomp on the brakes if they think they're going to pick up daisies (e.g. if you pass them on the inside and leave too little space for their taste)

I'd recommend using tin tops and slower cars until you feel confident about anticipating them.

Racing against the AIs is very useful as a learning tool: it promotes flexibility and awareness. It's a definite from me

PS: Frokki this is not addressed to you specifically, I just picked up your quote as a starting point.