Jizaa stop being a ****ing idiot, the fastest lap of the race proves **** all in relation to who had the fastest race pace, there's fuel loads, tyres, track conditions that come into play to make it unreliable data, even if it was a bone dry race and everyone was on the same tyres it would still mean **** all.

Hamiltons driving like he's always drove, on the edge and I doubt he's going to change anytime soon but he's still going to be ahead of button by the end of the season, just having a bad spell like button in the second half of the 2009 season, when he couldn't even beat barichello in the same car,

Trying to compare fastest laps to how fast someone is in the race just shows you know **** all jizaa.

Usually then run really skinny wings, only Button didn't last year but that was because he had the F-Duct, should be abit faster than spa.

3 points...

Quote from Juzaa :

Wait..now you're saying Kobayashi should have turned away from Hamilton while braking. Because of...? So everyone should just evade Hamilton when he crashes them? Do you know what happens when you try to turn when braking hard? Your tires lock and you don't turn at all. When you are braking you can not turn the car at all. You might be able to do a minor adjustment but that's it. You need your tires to keep on rolling to make you turn. If you are using all the grip you have for braking turning the wheel will only lock your tires.

And I don't see how betting will prove anything. We'll see the results after the season no matter how much you bet and then we'll see who's right. But so far Button has driven better and you can't deny that.

Since arguing you is as useless as trying to explain advanced math to a 2-YEAR-OLD I think I'll just ignore your posts because it's not worth anything trying to argue to someone who's trolling or just plain stupid and doesn't understand basic racing rules or how the cars behave.

Hope you'll grow up some day and find out how things work in real life.

Contradicting yourself again, you say you can't turn in the braking zones but before you said hamilton turned left in the braking zone? Kobi was obviously off the brakes by the time he turned in. Yes we will see at the end of the season, put that doesn't prove if your sure of the shit your spouting now does it? How has Jenson been the better driver exactly? All his wins have been handed to him on a plate, today was the only time i've been impressed with his driving, today i really thought he drove well, but i still think lewis has the edge and he would have won canada if Button didn't take him out, but he hasn't driven much better at all and the standings show that, all the consistancy and great thinking got him 3 points...

To be honest juzaa i think it's you who has the lack of racing knowledge, some of your comments of the season have led me to believe this, you seem to think the mistakes were simple mistakes when they're not. I've driven alot of races in LFS which i know isn't quite reality but the race craft is still similar and i've come across similar situations to lewis where it's just one of them things and you can't really be fast in LFS without understandings a cars behaviour can you? I've been going on trackdays since i was 12, i've driven race cars at donington and anglesey so yes i do know a cars limits in the real world, whats possible and whats not, what have you done to gain your "knowledge"?

And how does disagreeing with you about a racing incident in F1 mean i have no understanding of how things work in the real world?

Quote from Juzaa :

Those pictures of yours don't show anything relevant. Kobayashi didn't turn in. He rove straight. Hamilton did Maldonado move to him. Just watch Kobayashi's front tires in the video I posted. Hamilton comes at Kobayashi not the other way around. Hamilton's rear tire hit Kobayashi's front tire because Kobayashi braked earlier and was going slower than Hamilton. Just watch the video. That picture doesn't prove anything else than where Hamilton hit Kobayashi.

And if I want to bet I'll bet against someone I know who will give me the money if I win or I'll bet in a trusted betting company. Not some arrogant nobody who just wants to prove a point. To be right you don't have to bet on it.

The pictures where there to show that kobi did have some room to play with and he chose not to, and he did turn right at the point of impact, you can see it on the video for yourself, you can tell he's turning right because the front tyres are further away from the white line than his rears. You can't call it a stupid move because every driver does the same thing, i even saw rosberg do it today but he didn't hit the other car, slight misjudgement from hamilton that wasn't helped by kobi.

I don't know if you will pay me either and yes i do want to prove a point, that your full of shit, taking £20 from you would make it even sweeter, just shows that even you don't believe in what comes out of your mouth.

You said Jenson was the better driver, they're in the same car so it's fair and you actually have a headstart. Put your money where your mouth is!

And yes he did leave him a sauber sized gap, considering it was kobi's front wheel hit lewis rear, he not doing much to help by turning right is he? still had some track and a large amount of kurb to use.

You don't think it was a racing incident though, after looking at a few angles i'm starting to feel it was more kob's fault out of both of them at the point of contact kob had the better view of where lewis was and lewis gave him enough room for a sauber, he still had the kurb to go on and at the point they touch kob was turning into the corner, not something you do when someone is a 1cm from your front wheel. Theres no set rule about how much room you have to give, lewis gave him a sauber sized space which is fair but risky on lewis's part and it ended badly.

One thing i will agree on is that Lewis cuts it too fine sometimes, gives people just enough room, driving the car/tyres on the edge and one small mistake on his or the other drivers part it can end badly but i still don't think that's a bad quality, sometimes you need to be aggressive to get the results and i'd rather him have this style than buttons, it's more exciting and even with the mistakes it causes i think it's a better championship stratergy.

You don't know if i will pay you, all i can do is assure you i'm a man of my word i wouldn't be able to show my face again if i didn't, either driver could have mechanical failures or bad team decisions, that's the risk, but you won't need to worry if hamilton is as bad as you think he is. You can slag hammy off all you want but i've not found a person willing to bet against him yet

I said earlier it was mainly lewis's fault, and i wasn't betting about whos fault the incident was either, how could you bet on that? You just woken up tristan?

Whys that?

Don't then, it'll be easy money if what you've been spouting comes true.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Lewis was at fault in Canada and Spa. It's usually his fault when he's involved (most races). If you can't see that, then that's your problem.

Lewis is quicker. But Jenson is better overall at the moment.

You can take me up on my offer to Juzza if your confident.

If you think Button's driving is the best way to go winning a championship, why don't you put your money where your mouth is, £20 that Lewis finishes above Jenson in the drivers standing at the end of the season, you actually got a slender headstart, we can keep the proceeds or give it to the others charity, your choice.

Quote from Juzaa :

We have 2 completely different situations here. Are you too trolling or are you just blind? In canada Button took his line way before Hamilton pushed himself in the closing gap. Not to mention that they were accelerating and midway on a straight.

Then we have this situation where Hamilton and Kobayashi were almost alongside before braking. Kobayashi didn't push himself anywhere, he was braking and had been alongside for almost the whole straight. (meaning he couldn't do anything to prevent a collision because he couldn't brake any harder nor could he turn away because he was already on the left side) Then Hamilton for some reason chanced his line so that he'd hit Kobayashi. Hamilton changed his line towards Kobayashi while braking (something that young drivers are taught not to do in any circumstance when racing) and caused the collision.

Hamilton did not realize that Kobayashi was there and foolishly changed his driving line while braking. Something completely different than what Button and Hamilton had in Canada.

The causing factor in both accidents was the lead driver not checking his mirrors, kob wasn't alongside most of the straight at all, he ducked back in at the middle for some slipstream, to me kob was trying to do something that wasn't possible, but if i had to put the blame on someone it would be more lewis for moving left and not checking his mirrors and they weren't alongside kob touched lewis's rear wheel, whether they were braking or not makes no difference, lewis didn't actually change his line in the braking zone, he did it before. Racing incident just like canada was but you've just shown yourself to be contradicting.

Quote from Juzaa :

Great race. Button and Schumacher drove brilliantly and Vettel drove really good too. Couple of nice passes in the race by Webber and Vettel.

About Hamilton... he messed up...again. Currently the best British F1 driver is Jenson Button. (just look at the point totals if you don't believe me)

How can you say that when you sided with jenson in Canada? You just contradict yourself.

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"The rock" in my home town (bury) is being targeted by looters apparently, might have a drive up see whats going on.

I've driven MoE with less that 15FPS at some parts of the races, usually when racing i'm hitting around 25 and i have no problems, maybe you just can't drive.

That's a great idea, not!

Oh my ****ing god!

That's what happens when you have the driving style he does, it's up and down how boring would it be if we had 24 buttons or prosts, 90% of his moves come off and are pretty spectacular, then theres the 10% that don't which he's had a few of recently but even they weren't brain dead moves or even arguably his fault.

Quote from sinbad :

If they think it will rain heavily for 10 minutes, then waiting for it to be very wet could be incredibly costly. On top of the fact that you could go off, we've seen races where those that have switched to inters first will be 10 or 15 seconds faster over the very next lap than the people that "play it safe". And when the pitstop is only 18 seconds, you only need a couple of laps on the wet tyre to make that time back and more, 4 or 5 and you've got both stops covered assuming it dries, plus your chances of crashing are far far less.

What info he got, I don't know, he obviously thought it was going to rain hard for a while. Remember that he was on the wrong tyre already, and would have to stop before the end whilst those on the prime wouldn't, but he was no faster than they were, so it was a gamble worth taking. Webber did all the same things. Less consequential when you're not in the front, though. With a bit more rain they could have been the one-two with Rosberg 3rd, though.

I don't think it was such a bizarre or poorly judged decision.

^This, i think also you missed the part where loads of drivers were skating off the track? Including almighty Jenson and Hamilton as he dropped it. If that isn't a call for intermediates i don't know what is, especially as it was forcast to rain for 15 minutes.

Quote from Juzaa :

No one is saying he messes up all the time. The truth is that Hamilton does more mistakes than his opponents and has lately had a habit of making bad calls in races. Also saying Hamilton outsmarted others is quite debatable. He did outrace his rivals but I remember people here saying how Mclaren is always to blame when Hamilton's tactics fail. Following that logic it was his team who outsmarted his rivals' teams. Not Hamilton himself.

Also try to compare Hamilton's flawless races to Vettel's or maybe Alonso's. You'll see that he doesn't have more flawless races than the others do. That makes comparing his bad calls to the bad calls others make quite important don't you think?

Yes in germany it was the team that outsmarted the other teams, unless the driver has a particular preference the driver will go with whatever data the pit wall has at the time, there's about 20+ guys trying to think of stratergys and analyzing data from other cars/practice runs, the drivers simply doesn't have this info nor do they have a weather radar!!!!! To expect a driver to race round a circuit in an F1 car and outsmart 20+ people on the pitwall that have been thinking of nothing but stratergys with none of the data they have is crazy. If the rain had carried on like the radars said it would the intermediate would be the tyre to be on and i'm sure if Jenson had been in front he would have taken the intermediates.

I think it was the queing he was avoiding not the inters, even if Lewis did know they were putting inters on it's not his fault as the radar said it would continue to rain.