Hey he's right before David Saelens... Once to be told as "a Belgium promise" in the racing world:

Career David Saelens 1993Formula Renault EM, runner up1999F3 Masters Zandvoort, win2000Formula 30002001DTM (Mercedes Benz)2002Formel 1, tests Minardi03-04ALMS2004PMSC P62005PMSC, P3, win Hockenheim2006PMSC P5, win Barcelona2007PMSC
So very well done Norbi! Though I must add David really had a bad 2006 season and 2007 isn't got much better...

Well done Norbi, enjoy this day (and don't forget the pit girls) !

Young man, get of that fence right away !

Good look Norbi

Amazing amazing amazing brilliant Don !!

I've put it on the blog of SCCC: http://www.sccabco.com/blog/

Last edited by GianniC, Wed 1 Aug 2007, 19:01.

Looks great !
Too bad I'm not Norse

Travelled distance: 24780 Km
Fuel burnt: 8419 Ltr

Resulting in:
0,32 liters/km ?
or 2,9 liters/km ?

How exactly do you calculate it again ?

Man, I should race more

Nice video footage, looking forward to Silverstone vid

Quote from tristancliffe :

I need 5, and there is no way I get them before Spa, so we're not going. Hopefully next year there will be another event at Spa, and I'll be able to go

Sad to hear, but do not forget to pm me before you're going to Spa, so I can leave a spot on my agenda

May I advice you a book to read ? Over 1400 pages, made by a great reporter, objective and containing pure the truth, mostly seen with his real eyes.

It made me a bit wiser. But it made me mostly think about everything, and that is the core of everything. To think. Just as (some of us) do in this topic. At the end, it is all about money, power and... repeating our history. "Iraqi Freedom", this new law. It all happend so many times before. 9/11, if we all had our eyes opened and used our braincells, it was even predictable. Yes, even 9/11. Yes, even the disastrous outcome of the 2003 invasion.

History tells us the future.
And it doesn't look like getting brighter.

Last edited by GianniC, Tue 24 Jul 2007, 08:37.

It's not about how fast you race, but about how low you race.

...At least that is what they said in 2F2F movie


Welcome Origamiboy and have lots of fun

/me votes for Renku deserves also a Nutter-like symbol ! (Press 1)
... and while your busy Vic, I'd like a Smapper symbol behind my name!

Well done Renku, truly amazing

That's clear sarcasme I'd say




:duck:

Quote from bbman :

And yet you used it yourself...



And if all this isn't about you having to readjust to something you're not used to, what IS the point? Because "limiting you in your freedom to choose a view you used for ages" is just packing the same thing in another package...

It is one of our arguments that some of us are just used of it and that there is no reason to change this habit.
I believe it was said like this more and not with the "oneoneone111" crap you wrote after it. I hope you show some more respect to others their words in other discussions than you did in that post.

We repack our arguements ? All you do is repacking your package aswell.

How about all those other arguements, they don't count for you ? Just the one arguement you can pretty swiftly counter makes the other arguements less important ?

This one go's out to the one I love ... :ernaehrun

Quote from bbman :

The main argument of those opposing the changes always were "but we're used to it, how dare you changing that!!!!!1111oneoneeleven"...

THIS really is what makes me sad, when did we became a bunch of progress-opposing nay-sayers?

First of all, the main argument was NOT that what you say, and by proclaiming it is you are making yourself pretty foolish

We are not against progress, but progress is being achieved by for exampling introducing updated physics in order to add more realism, not by make the option availlable to force people to use a certain view to add realism and to "progress" the game. Agreed, perhaps this option was needed for the LX competition, but make it then only for those server(s)/competitions. And I agree again, it is an option, but that does not change the fact it has influences and our freedom is being cut off. And no, we are not against this because it makes it harder, it is just how we like to race and now there is an option implented in our favorite game where hosts can deny us to use the way how we race. Lmao I really would like to see how you guys would react if this was about a 'forced chase car view' instead of cockpit view. Stop saying we are "moaners", "cheaters", "a bunch of progress-opposing nay-sayers" and so on. We are not that! We just dare as a obvious minority in this community to say what we think, what we feel and what we want. Besides, in the poll on the other topic nearly 1/4 of the votes uses another view then the cockpit view. Yes the 1/4th is still a minority but personally I've to admit it is a bigger group then I first thought it was. That is not a deniable group of racers who have played LFS and supported it for a long time, and will keep doing so, if you just would listen to what we say instead of go 'ridiculising' us.

I'm still looking things very suspecious in the future as I nearly certain know the number of servers using it will increase once some well known leagues will use this option. And if this just isn't a step in between, a step before making the cockpit view the only possible view.

Regards,
GC

Last edited by GianniC, Mon 9 Jul 2007, 18:58.

Quote from bbman :

THERE is your advantage! When I race in Cockpit-View, I also don't know if I kissed the apex exactly, I can guess where I am through calculating the distances by noting various reference points, but I didn't see it, so I never know! You on the other hand, SEE exactly where your car is and if it loses traction by seeing the skidmarks... Now tell me that this is no advantage...

Then use chase car view also ?

Hey, I've heared Bawbag is using a new G25. I'm using an old MS FF Sidewinder, with bad working software, thus making the center messed up and now and then the FF just drops out. Bawbag has an unfair advantage above me! :rolleyes:

When you are racing in cockpit view, you decide to do that, you are not forced. Saying that it is an advantage in seeing the entire car and skid marks in a chase car view is correct. Saying that this is an unfair advantage is wrong. The cockpit offers also an advantage the chase car view has (mirrors eg.), why is this on its turn then not an unfair advantage compared to chase car view ? One view may have on a certain point an advantage over another view, but don't forget the other view may have also an advantage on a certain other point on the one view.

Cause you decide, and a large group of other people, that cockpit view is "the way to go" and use that, that you and those people suddenly start saying other view users have advantages making them "alien like faster" than cockpit viewers, we are being taken of the right to decide by free will on what view we want to play this game ?

This is counter all those values and morals we get pumped in our head from when we barely can read, democracy. Saying LFS is no democracy is complete bullshit. Well perhaps it is the true... at least it used to be a democracy.

Want realism ? Work on the physics, but do not go force people to use different views to add realism, cause that is plain bogus.

Quote from wien :

Oh common. It's a funny picture. I LOL'd myself.

Ok it is funny, and he can surely laugh. (So did I actually )

But I had expect perhaps an explanation for why they implent this future so suddenly and so late in S2 ? If I could read a decent build up argumentation why I perhaps could call down and accept this new 'option'.

Quote from Scawen :

LOL

Is this all our beloved God has to say ?
LOL, point and laugh at those who use another view ?

Chase car, depening on formula or road car class in FOV: 88°-103°.

Realism has its borders. This IS and STAYS a racinggame. As been said up here: If I want a forced cockpit view I'll race it in real life. This is a sim, it can't be perfect, it just simulates. The way I put my option simulates the way I experience driving in real life.

And if people who have the habit of using this cockpit view only can laugh, call us cheaters, and so on...
Man, had no idea people/this forum/LFS had lowered down so much in level during my study break.
Sad, just sad.

Quote from robt :

GianniC, ill be happy to race you.

I'll be happy to race you too

And for the record, I use a wheel (just learning to race with it after some months of studying break from LFS), so I'm not "an arcade racer with kb" blablabla. I've never raced NFS, not even tryed it. Only GP2, GPL, Nascar 2003 and LFS. Just saying: racingsims.

Last edited by GianniC, Sun 8 Jul 2007, 18:58.

Quote from keiran :

That is an unfair advantage over us who drive the car where your supposed to drive it from. What's the point in pushing the physics to the limit and drive it as if you were playing Grand Theft Auto?

And seeing exactly where the car behind you is, is NOT an unfair advantage? Honestly, we are seriously 'waging things in different measurements' here.

Obviously there is a big(ger) group who seems already been using the cockpit view for some while. This group is completely used to it and don't spot the problem.

There is another group of people using chase car view or different custom views. This group seems smaller.

The first group claims the second group is cheating. That the second group has an "unfair" advantage. While this is so NOT true, that's a proven fact and whatever you bring on of arguements, the chase car view offers no advantage above other views. You see the cars left and right, yes, but you don't see them behind you. In cockpit view you have those buttons, to see behind you, you have your mirrors and you have buttons to look left and right. Where is that unfair advantage ?

I was during my holliday planning to race every day some hours, get back into LFS but honestly I'm having my doubts now. Why on earth can we play 3-4 years with no forced view and suddenly we have to ? This adds nothing to realism. I just went doing some laps on a combo I well know... I was totally lost. I had no idea where my car was, what line I was taking in a turn, was I on the curbs now or not ? I had not a single clue. Saying we have to adapt us to the view you guys like to use and being forced to use the view is brutal and inpolite. It is just not right.

Not much servers have it now, but what will we do if much servers do have it ? What will we do, if a server hosts a nice combo but with forced view ? What will we do if a good league, like the OLFSL or the XFR/UFR league, uses this forced cockpit option ? Withdraw from the league ? Stop racing in the league ? Quit our hobby ? Quit our fun ?

And as been stated before by someone, how hard would you guys not start yelling if there was a "forced chase car view option" ? Jezus, the hyprocisy here..

-It offers no extra realism, psychis do.
-A countable group of racers is forced in using another view after all this time, you just can't do that.
-Suddenly people using another view are having advantages and/or are being cheaters, since the have more view.
-Suddenly people using chase car view are "dangerous on the track", cause they have not enough view like in a cockpit.
-And yes, last but not least.. people using another view then the cockpit view are not only cheaters, not only dangerous but if they had used the other great god gifted cockpit view (spot the sarcasm?) they had been able that IF there was a crash where the were involved in to avoid it by 75%.
-We all know that things who are first 'optional' are later 'standard'.

Honestly, don't you guys see this contradiction ? We are cheaters using a integrated view and at the exact same moment we are more dangerous because we use that integrated view the Devs offer us !

And now the Devs make the option availlable under the motto "Add realism" to make it for hosts possible to deny us using the view we have been using for years now.


Some of you guys really fail me here. I had NEVER expected to be called a dangerous, cheating racer... because I use chase car view. This is indeed plain sad. And I really mean this. There was one forum I'd loved to read, no ranting, good topics, information, discussions, technical things, fun things... good people,who don't lower themselfs down in dividing things in groups (beside with the S2<>demo thingy) but now ...

:inq:

Last edited by GianniC, Sun 8 Jul 2007, 18:47.

You know, there is one thing which can make me very pissed off in a forum. When you add a valuable opinion and contribution, and that the people, your 'opponents', post behind you that you are "ranting" or "moaning".

This is absolutly no moaning, just giving my feeling about this new option in LFS on a constructive way. So please, can you stop saying that the people who dislike this new option are "moaning" or "ranting". Show some respect for others their opinions!

And again, as Danowat said, I have no doubt I'll have to go learn this new view since it will be forced on likely every server soon and later on this 'option' will become a standard setting, why otherwise introduce it?! I just want to point out that I see no reason why using another view is considered suddenly as "cheating" or as "giving an advantage above the cockpit view" and why we all are forced to use a view, a view where as I most of us never have used in all these years of LFS, and all those years in other racing games. This has nothing to do with "more realism", but just with a personal opinion and view.

A view does NOT make a game more realistic, but the physics DO!

Thanks,
GC

Last edited by GianniC, Sun 8 Jul 2007, 14:11.

Quote from danowat :

So, you are getting an "unfair" advantage because you can see where you wheels are going?.

Chase car view is nowhere near realistic, of course YOU may be faster than me simply because you use chase car, and I don't, I am just glad that now, when the option is enabled, we all will be on a level playing field.

Who says I am faster then you because of the use of another view ? Can you prove this by %'s and facts ? No you can not.
Other people perhaps race with the custom view, no wheel, just 2cms of the front tyres. They have a 'advantage' also over the 'chase car' view that I'm using, does this mean they are faster then me ? No.
It is all about the feeling you have with the car, the habit perhaps too. Some feel the car better by seeing the 4 tyres, other feel it better like it would be in real life, others feel the car better on a totally other way. This are personal opinions and feelings and it just is not right to force people to race with a view where they have no feeling at all with the car. No matter what excuses you come up with, this is just not done.

Cockpit view may be for some people more realistic, but for me LFS is a fun hobby and a computergame. If I want to race and use another view, I want to be able to do this and not be forced into another view by one or another host.

Regards,
GC