I own both games, all I can say is both games are good, especialy if your from australia you can dowload all local tracks for Rfactor v8factor.

And you really can't complain, there really isn't much money invested in car sims compared to flight sims.

Just my 2 cents

The reason being why have have not bough S2 is because I needed a major pc upgrade from my old..
The last thing I need now is a decend graphics card and some ram

But, not being a big fan of credit cards are there any other means possible to pay for s2 licence?

Am im the only person here that does not have these problems???

I have no problems with heel and toe, the only difference in the way I do it just like in my racing clutch is while braking I heel and toe almost at the same time.
the g25 is great, all pedals in line with each other.

While im still waiting for s3 to come out (perhaps I should just buy s2 )
im been playing this game for a while and I can say that not other game comes close on how a rwd 2 ltr turbo should fell.

Everthing my car does the g25 mimics it almost perfectly, the scandinavian flick for example taking a right hand corner while on 3rd, relising the gas turning to left then sharply to right applying gas making the rear end come out, the wheel counter steers itself, while the wheels are just about the regain grip I keep the gas on to straighten the steering so I dont get spit out of the track.
The G25 does just this, it's great though some improvements:

Stalling the engine when clutch is not engaged, damaging the gearbox, special with clutch kicking this has happen to my car, had to replace third.
Also shifting the wrong way should damage the engine and gears.

I’m sure you know there is a bit more to it:
Angle and speed and also the line you use to drift.
The chaser has to mimic or be faster than the chased, but losses points if the chaser overtakes him (unfair power disadvantage ) unless the chased has an accident and spins out. The chaser losses points if he crashes against the opponent
Other things to note: In most Option vid the Judges listen when they drop the revs too much during mid drift and loss points.
Big points on how you initiate the first Judge corner and link all the corners with drifting. Judges don’t care which technique you use as long as it looks good.

Quote from RMachucaA :

i think bubbles is cranky cause no one has changed his dirty diapers....

Wheres your mommy? can we help you get her? abooo booo... oh such a cute baby, so outspoken for his age too!

Canadians are so weird. Baby's don't talk dopy.

I know what you are but what am I?

Liar liar pants on fire.

Quote from Hankstar :

Grow up FFS. This is how you respond in what could've been an intelligent debate? LOL, calling me stupid - while you mis-spell just about every second word and can barely make a sentence...

If you could articulate your point like a grownup, maybe I wouldn't need clarification.

Sorry about the big words.

edit: I'm not waiting for a response. I'm leaving this thread to the pages of history, so whatever you want to say, go for your life.
But don't forget to proofread it before you post.

LOL

Read between the lines stupid.

Quote from Hankstar :

He may be, but you're not. My dad's a (retired) high school teacher, yet I left high school early to play music and play video games for a coupla years before I started working. Trust me, occupational skills don't rub off

And having been in bands since 1992, I can honestly say that if you'd ever been a band yourself you wouldn't see it so simplistically. Noone I've ever encountered in the biz has wanted to turn their band into Sony Music...
Just think about the Foo Fighters (as an example off the top of my head): they only play rock. They've played straight-up rock music since 1994. They haven't opened a studio or started a label and started selling every other kind of music under the sun. Yet they're one of the biggest bands on the planet - and in 4 (5?) albums they still haven't diversified into other genres. Four very successful musicians with as much control as they want over their product, legions of fans and buckets and buckets of money.

I'm not psychic but I think the devs have a business plan (which seems to work pretty well btw) and I'm sure if they wanted financial advice they wouldn't consult someone whose dad is a financial analyst, or trawl the forums looking for random advice from anonymous screen names - and especially not from people who haven't even bought their product and have a decent understanding of it! Not everyone wants to turn their business into a massive corporate colossus. Have you considered that the developers may love being in a 3-man team? To me, that is thinking outside the corporate square. I can't think of another game/sim built by such a small team that's as successful as LFS. IMHO, going down the road of hiring a shipload of people to do everything for you while you rake in the dough is about as traditional and "in the square" as you can get. With 3 people, all the control is in their hands and the final say on everything belongs to them. With 300 employees and a bunch of shareholders, they'd always have to compromise something, meet some deadline, meet some sales/profit target and other such corporate bullsh1t. They'd turn into EA games ffs.



Besides, if the devs hired more people, it'd just be more people to share their profits with

You mist my entire point LOL

Quote from Psycho Evangelion :

what the heck? Gran Turismo was developed by polyphony. Squaresoft develops games like...FINAL FANTASY.

Ooops.

Quote from filur :

It's actually a valid point, it's very good for a project to be extremely focused, and catering for every subgroup of users isn't a very good idea, especially for a 3-man team.

I see it like this, your band and you only play Rock, you make a lot of money but it's not enought so you take it the next step, you buy a studio and start contrating bands and selling theirs album's, but you figure that "hey, the business has grown but our fans are the same, maybe we should expand and sell other types of music to weight out the cost of the company. So they start selling Dance hip hop death etc, their company gets bigger and shareholders see an interest in the company and invest. You pay a team of marketers, editors, etc while your racing your very own Mclaren F1 down the track.
It doesn't have to be a 3-team man if you think outside the square, trust me my dad's a financial anylist.

Quote from spankmeyer :

No need for a martyr mode, kiddo.

Please... you drifters must realize that even if drifting is possible to recreate in LFS, it is not what LFS was designed to simulate. Thus, actual support (point system, blingbling etc.) to enhance such action is pretty unlikely to come in the future.
And no, I seriously doubt it is realistic to think LFS as basis of an be-all-end-all motorsport simulator consisting every type of imaginable activity based on cars.

EDIT: Just because one can sing songs via VOIP mode in Battlefield 2, does it mean EA/Dice should incorporate some kind of fancy Singstar point system in BF2? Seriously... come on!

Peace!

"No need for a martyr mode, kiddo"
I'm not a kid, 24 and competed in most drift championships in New Zealand, I have done a lot of circuit racing with a s13 and r32 gtr, thats what I mean by ignorance, just no idea.

"Thus, actual support (point system, blingbling etc.) to enhance such action is pretty unlikely to come in the future."
Blingbling what tha...

"Just because one can sing songs via VOIP mode in Battlefield 2, does it mean EA/Dice should incorporate some kind of fancy Singstar point system in BF2? Seriously... come on!"
Once again ignorance with a touch of arrogance, there's more to it then just oversteering. Stop offending my intellegence. Besides it's just a suggestion.

Peace

But what sort of sport are we talking about people?
If it's circuit racing,
I have seen ff cars have a good run, the problem is they use their front tires to accelerate, brake and corner so their front tires wear quicker and understeer gets worse. Also they don't handle very well with too much horsepower. This is the main issue with ff cars even if their tuned to oversteer.
AWD cars have a lot of traction thus it's the fastest to take off at start, doesn't require much skill to drive especially the current evo's and sti's with their star wars technology, they can handle a lot of horsepower.
4WD's have come along way since the audi quattro, however due to current car manufacturer safety regulations these cars have gotten heavier and heavier(I mean the gallant vr4 was heavy, but these days the evo9 is just or heavier) Thats the only downside I can think off really besides power losses, but they are a really good platform for someone thats not experience with RWD cars. The Skyline GTR isn't a full time 4WD, I'll cover that later.
Sorry but like the FR AWD Lamborguini and others I don't no much about.

I'll cover FR and MR cars when I have the time, I have to go .

Quote from Hankstar :

@bubbles: I didn't categorise you as a demo player as some kind of insult - you are a demo player. No right or wrong, good or bad, it's the truth. It's also written under your username

Anyway, a demo's just meant to be a taste of the game and doesn't totally reflect the full version - especially since there's been a patch since S2 was released. What I meant was that if you had LFS S2 and played it extensively (and maybe hung around here a bit) you'd have more of an idea what LFS was really like and might modify your point of view. I wasn't implying that you don't deserve a say, just that you should try and get as much info as you can before making suggestions about a game you don't actually own yet..

As for your incorporation suggestion, rest assured you aren't the first to hand out free business advice to the developers.

"To me, a demo racer rolling in and telling everyone what LFS should be, without knowing enough about the game to have an informed opinion, as well as slamming others' opinions, is ignorant arrogant."
Sure I'm not, I never said circuit racing sux, and Im not slamming others opinions, I'll just leave it has that.

Ps. I'm saving up for more ram and video card, then I might buy the s2 licence, in anycase don't think Ill my views will change. There's a game in japan that has sold allot.

But I'll leave this up to the developers, it's their game.

Sounds a llot like my starion when it had back pressure issues, but the sound was coming from the turbo rather than the blow valve.
What blow off valve is this may I ask?

Quote from Hankstar :

That's a bit rough bubble, I don't think he was being offensive And as a demo racer you won't have had the experience of seriously playing LFS S2 enough (online and offline) to get a feel for the game and get a real idea of what it's creators are trying to do here. To me, a demo racer rolling in and telling everyone what LFS should be, without knowing enough about the game to have an informed opinion, as well as slamming others' opinions, is ignorant arrogant.

LFS already reaches a wide audience because of its dedication to realistic driving. Because of the way it plays, it attracts all sorts of drivers - mostly racers ("grippers"). That's who the game is aimed at - people who want a realistic driving experience with a focus on online competition. The devs aren't going to cater to a minority group to just sell games, be they drifters, draggers, ricers or caravan owners. The realistic physics allows people to drift, drag, do big doughnuts etc but the focus (I think) will always be on racing.

As to your previous post about including every conceivable form of motorsport - while that would be nice, realistically that's another thing we'll probably never see in LFS (unless a modkit comes out after S3). 3 guys are developing this game, it's not like they have the huge financial and human resources of, for example, EA Games, that would be needed to model, test and license all the forms of motorsport you mentioned. I don't think the devs want LFS to cost three times as much as it does now and I, as just one LFS fan, don't want it too either. rFactor is moddable to an extreme degree, sounds like you'd like that more than LFS...

Bottom to top
I don’t no if this has been suggested but if they incorporate the company (don’t no how it works in their country) they can issue shares, by doing that there company can grow financial. Just an idea.

Ruff? How can you compare drifting to parking a car?? Sure drifting is based on judging rather than getting the right lap time, however the creators have to be aware that (I'm not trying to say that they should include a drift system has soon has possible) just keep it in mind at least. Its just the people that say, "Oh, drifting is stupid" sorry but that’s arrogance and ignorance. Why? Because the more types of motor sports you include the bigger the LSF community, the more funds they have on improve their game, it's as simple as that. Like I don’t like drag racing, but it’s in the game GOOD!!

You have categorized me as a demo player and that I should have no say. Think again, it's the demo players you have to convince to buy the game if you want to make this game better. In that case if you don’t think it’s the case go back to your cave. GT4 has achieved that, but this game is for kids, realism isn't there.

But I would like to congratulate the developers, the physics are there!! This game is as real as it gets Yous guys did a fantastic job.
Please take what I said litely, Im not trying to offend nobody.

Quote from spankmeyer :

www.liveforspeed.net and take a look top left: "Online Racing Simulator"

Just because things like drifting is possible, thanks to LFS physics, it isn't the focus point of the program. I like paraller parking and once again, thanks to LFS physics, it's possible to do that quite nicely - but I don't have a need to get attention by making a thread to improvement suggestions for a clever "Rate My Paraller Parking-o-meter" simply because it ain't happening.

Peace!

So you think drifting is just entertainment, well your wrong, but hey even if you don't like the idea, by doing so you would be reaching a wider audience.

With this accurated physics engine the game is running by then you will be eating square soft "gran turismo" series for breakfast.
But it's up to your ignorance and arrogance, I see this, it's a shame narrow minded people don't.

Quote from Primoz :

The XR GT looks like an 86. Very simmilar. And it would be nice to see some touges but i doubt it will happen. After all, LFS is a raing simulator, not a drifting one. Be happy that we can drift and the devs are not against it. I doubt we will see a lot of drift specific stuff in LFS.

No its not, first it weights around 980kgs, second it runs on a live axle NOT IRS and third it runs a 1.6ltr twin cam engine with a 2way lsd from factory.
The behaviour of the xr is different, the sprinter understeers unless you give it gas before the apex and also its more forgiving if you get it wrong and last its really good on narrow roads.

This game is alridy very good but I would like to see:
Brake pads wearing out.
Engine overheating depending on weather, oil cooler kit etc.
Wear LSD's by drifting too much, racing etc.
Clutch slep.
Brake gearbox because of bad shifting/not using hell+toe etc.
And lastly tuning the ecu of the engine according to the tracks

Quote from Tweaker :

What I mean by cater is... LFS doesn't give any special needs to drifters. When will there be a downhill road course, more max steering lock, longer lasting tires/drift tires... I mean come on, and now you think we will have a Drift points system???? :zombie:

Which is why I suggest this be a mod, as a lot of the serious sim racing fans would look at LFS as a drifting game rather than a true racing game.

LFS should be Sim for the Automotive fan club, that means everything from rallying a pug206 in the snow or racing a really tight wet track downhill a mountain. The omega version should have every type of automotive sport even if the game ends up costing triple the price. Dont forget drifting isn't an old sport, and its entertaining. F1 F3 Group A Group B Grounp C Rally GT500/300 Bathurst Drag racing Le mans 24h ETC.

I would like to see whats called in Europe and the US Corolla GTS or whats called in Japan and Australia the toyota corolla sprinter trueno/levin.

This car is very unique, its a lite Fr with live axle running a twin cam 1.6 ltr.
It would be great if they could have this car and a mountain pass or whats called in japan a touge track which is basiclya tight track going downhill or uphill on the mountain.

Another car I would like to see is this. The SS Commodore which runs a
unique rear suspension system with a modifyed 550hp V8 engine.

Also series 8 rx7, 350z, s2000 and the s15 silvia.

Offcourse exotic cars like lotus, ferrari, lamborguini etc.