N.400S GT4

You may have seen my mod N.400Z, not so long ago I wanted to make racing version of the GT4 series.

Good review from Chris Forsberg -

More pics of interior

what i have done so far -

Looks very good, good job

Modeling on live stream now - https://youtu.be/yq1QZGaKHFw

some update

Nice work, waiting for drive it)

looking dope. i've made an amg gtr mod a while ago. maybe we can start a gt4 class

Live stream modeling - https://youtu.be/KTs6ckBKqx4

Super detailed and good looking model.

I think it deserve a little bit better lod2, because it's not only for shadow, it's also how the car looks from a long distance.


I've notice i'ts hard to navigate and move around into the car (when you work on the interior for example)
You can try to change your FOV with that black bullet point.


Awesome job overall

Some update

Quote from ivo_drifta :

Super detailed and good looking model.

I think it deserve a little bit better lod2, because it's not only for shadow...

Yeah, i know about fov. About lods, i agree, that make sence. I do it later.
Thank you.

Some update

I submitted a mod for review - https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102683-N-400S-GT4
Please support it!

Update -

for comparison

Published, I modeled it for a long time from scratch, a lot of work there. Please give some feedback 🙏

Amazing work once again, thank you fro making this mod

Absolutely beautiful professional work (even more beautiful than usual).

A mod that places LFS at the level of the best current standards in terms of graphics. Ready to play with beautiful textures and working LODs. I haven't tested the physics yet, but I trust you .

Three quick notes:
Shifts seem to stick a bit when the AI is driving the car.
I imagine that we will soon have interior textures for the dashboard in particular?
Is there a possibility to have a configuration with a manual gearbox? (Paradoxically, the palettes make me feel like I'm back in the early 2000s

Great job Aleksandr_124rus. A huge thank you

Quote from Kanker_aap :

Amazing work once again, thank you fro making this mod

Thank you. It's nice to know that people like your work

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Absolutely beautiful professional work (even more beautiful than usual).

A mod that places LFS at the level of the best current standards in terms of graphics. Ready to play with beautiful textures and working LODs. I haven't tested the physics yet, but I trust you .

Great job Aleksandr_124rus. A huge thank you

Thank you, it's encouraging when people like your work. With the LODs still have to work, they are not detailed enough for the shadows.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Three quick notes:
Shifts seem to stick a bit when the AI is driving the car.

About shiftings, I don't quite understand, can you explain in more detail?
Maybe in options u selected auto gearbox and this is due to the revlimiter on auto gearbox?

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

I imagine that we will soon have interior textures for the dashboard in particular?

It might, but for me just be hard to map this kind of interior and make it beautifully textured, but I'll try. But I realized that it needs to be darker.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Is there a possibility to have a configuration with a manual gearbox? (Paradoxically, the palettes make me feel like I'm back in the early 2000s

I do not quite understand what you are talking in reality there is a steering wheel with a Paddle shifters, in mod selected the same. Technically it is a manual gearbox. Only player can choose manual or auto gearbox in optionts of the game. But this refers more to the availability of controllers, or switching on the keyboard.

Hi ,

1 - At home on Historic Rockingham (for example I haven't tested all tracks) the AI is stuck in 4th gear.

2 - For the dashboard, you are right. There's no need to make it complicated. Sometimes a fine-grained texture with shiny black plastic parts (for contrast) do the job well. Once in the race, you no longer admire the dashboard .

3- For the gearbox (sorry, I was not clear). It's mostly a matter of hardware. When playing with an H gearbox, it's easier to have a planned configuration. I only tested with the keyboard, but I imagine that speeds are configured in + & -. Not for an H gearbox.

I hope to be able to test this marvellous car in my simulator as soon as possible.

Beautiful work! This got me very excited and think it would make a great spec series championship mod. Very well done!

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Hi ,

1 - At home on Historic Rockingham (for example I haven't tested all tracks) the AI is stuck in 4th gear.

2 - For the dashboard, you are right. There's no need to make it complicated. Sometimes a fine-grained texture with shiny black plastic parts (for contrast) do the job well. Once in the race, you no longer admire the dashboard .

3- For the gearbox (sorry, I was not clear). It's mostly a matter of hardware. When playing with an H gearbox, it's easier to have a planned configuration. I only tested with the keyboard, but I imagine that speeds are configured in + & -. Not for an H gearbox.

I hope to be able to test this marvellous car in my simulator as soon as possible.

1 - To be honest, I don’t know at all due to what this can happen, I don’t understand how ai behaves and why, and how I can influence it

2 - i'll try my best

3 - Since I want to make the mod as realistic as possible, it is necessary to make paddles shifters. Most steering wheels have this function, and also i think if you use the keyboard then this is not such a problem.

If AI cannot shift gears,the redline (revlimiter) is too low - raise the value!

Quote from Jonathon.provost :

Beautiful work! This got me very excited and think it would make a great spec series championship mod. Very well done!

Thank you, if you would like to fix something in the mod, feel free to say so.

Quote from Eclipsed :

If AI cannot shift gears,the redline (revlimiter) is too low - raise the value!

Ok, i will fix it

Changed mapping of interior
Changed redline

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Changed mapping of interior
Changed redline

Hi ,
1 - It's good. AI shifts gears
2 - The dashboard is much better. Suggestion: An additional or different texture for your dashboard to catch the light better and have better relief and it will be perfect.
3 -I have paddles on my steering wheel. I also have an H gearbox. My problem is that I prefer to use the h gearbox, even with paddle cars .
In the last millennium, we only had paddle shifters and we drove cars with H-speed gearboxes. Today, using paddles makes me feel like I'm back in 1998 with Toca2 from Codemasters. It's stupid, but it has that effect on me .
That's why I asked you if it was not possible to have a version of this car with a real h gearbox with a lever, for old fools like me ?

It's really a nice job. Congratulation !

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Hi ,
1 - It's good. AI shifts gears
2 - The dashboard is much better. Suggestion: An additional or different texture for your dashboard to catch the light better and have better relief and it will be perfect.
3 -I have paddles on my steering wheel. I also have an H gearbox. My problem is that I prefer to use the h gearbox, even with paddle cars .
In the last millennium, we only had paddle shifters and we drove cars with H-speed gearboxes. Today, using paddles makes me feel like I'm back in 1998 with Toca2 from Codemasters. It's stupid, but it has that effect on me .
That's why I asked you if it was not possible to have a version of this car with a real h gearbox with a lever, for old fools like me ?

It's really a nice job. Congratulation !

Hello

1 - Nice
2 - I'm wondering how best to do this? Unfortunately, 2 texture mappings cannot be applied to one triangle. And I can't add more triangles because I'm already at the 65.5k limit.
3 - Im sorry, but I don't think it makes sense for this to make a completely separate version of the same mod.

Thank you for feedback!

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Hello

1 - Nice
2 - I'm wondering how best to do this? Unfortunately, 2 texture mappings cannot be applied to one triangle. And I can't add more triangles because I'm already at the 65.5k limit.
3 - Im sorry, but I don't think it makes sense for this to make a completely separate version of the same mod.

Thank you for feedback!

2- I can't help you, sorry .
3- Not a separate mod, just an alternate config accessible when creating a new setup. Like the XRR. If that's not possible, that's okay. This does not detract from the quality of the module. It's just an old man's whim .

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

2- I can't help you, sorry .
3- Not a separate mod, just an alternate config accessible when creating a new setup. Like the XRR. If that's not possible, that's okay. This does not detract from the quality of the module. It's just an old man's whim .

Unfortunately, at the moment, it is impossible to do something like this in configs. The configurations for the GTR class are arranged a little differently than what we can do in the editor. In the configurations, I can only make a different appearance of the car, nothing more.
Maybe devs will add something like that in the future.

Thank you for your answer. I didn't know it was impossible. This should be added to the list of mod system improvements. That would be helpful.

Changed stock setups. Fixed mapping of the seat, fixed mapping of steering wheel, In rollcage change some tubes (close to driver) to unmirror and make rollcage with flip side. Changes logo size to a bit smaller, and some other small changes in mappings to make more realistic look.

I would also like to hear feedback from the racers about the physics and how the car is controlled, and also from those who drove in the GT4 class in any simulators.

I really like this car by its looks and physics. Very solid!
When driving it with the setups provided I like to choose the "mid grip slick". I think it hits the marks of being not to high downforce'd and being a bit of handful. Also the understeer from being a front engined card makes sense to me.

Points of improvements:
- The blow off valve sounds off to me on upshifting. I don't know if that's just how the game creates it or something can be done about it. But it sounds like a cut-off or fast played sound to me.
- Somehow the "high grip" setup is quicker on the straights and has less grip in corners to me. So it seems to have less downforce and should not be called high grip?

Keep up the good work!

Quote from KittigRuug :

I really like this car by its looks and physics. Very solid!
When driving it with the setups provided I like to choose the "mid grip slick". I think it hits the marks of being not to high downforce'd and being a bit of handful. Also the understeer from being a front engined card makes sense to me.

Points of improvements:
- The blow off valve sounds off to me on upshifting. I don't know if that's just how the game creates it or something can be done about it. But it sounds like a cut-off or fast played sound to me.
- Somehow the "high grip" setup is quicker on the straights and has less grip in corners to me. So it seems to have less downforce and should not be called high grip?

Keep up the good work!

Got it, thank you for feedback!

I enjoy it a lot, 5*, hopefully this mod is here to stay and will be eventually approved/staff picked, as it deserves it in my opinion.

Physics and setups are good to go straight out of the box, unlike most of mods, model is detailed and very well done.
Wonder how will the car and cockpit look like with new lighting model.

Quote from Kid222 :

I enjoy it a lot, 5*, hopefully this mod is here to stay and will be eventually approved/staff picked, as it deserves it in my opinion.

Physics and setups are good to go straight out of the box, unlike most of mods, model is detailed and very well done.
Wonder how will the car and cockpit look like with new lighting model.

Thank you. It's nice when ricers like your mod.

Change default setups a bit, change size of steering wheel to a bit smaller, add new textures in interior, change some mappings, change engine sound

After trying it in a couple of races, last weekend, the car seems extremely easy to roll, especially after contact, do you have any idea why that might be?

maybe CoG too high or something of that nature? i can dig up some examples later if you'd like


also unrelated, but on the visual sidd of things, there's a weird rectangle on the underside of the body that has some of the skin mapping and the tow strap changing sides based on driver side feels a bit odd.

very enjoyable mod otherwise!

Quote from johneysvk :

After trying it in a couple of races, last weekend, the car seems extremely easy to roll, especially after contact, do you have any idea why that might be?

maybe CoG too high or something of that nature? i can dig up some examples later if you'd like


also unrelated, but on the visual sidd of things, there's a weird rectangle on the underside of the body that has some of the skin mapping and the tow strap changing sides based on driver side feels a bit odd.

very enjoyable mod otherwise!

I'll try to test it when I get a chance and can you send a screenshot of that rectangle?

not at the moment, sorry, but just look at the underside in LOD1, should be visible with some of the default skins

I lowered the center of gravity 5 centimeters lower, it should be better now, and i fixed mapping with that rectangle

excellent!

Vehicle class changed to GT

One of my favourite mod,nice

Quote from Viperakecske :

One of my favourite mod,nice

Thank you, nice to hear that from one of the top racers in the lfs!

Changed lod 2 for better shadows, added welding on rollcage, changed some interior mappings.

Added number for events in separate configuration. Added some small things in interior. And change some mappings in interior.

Hi, while watching the NDR race i noticed that LOD2 doesn't have the skin mapped for the bonnet, you can see it pretty clearly here when cars get closer to the camera and switch from LOD2 to LOD1

https://www.youtube.com/live/BSBupTJpiIk?si=YECKCJgrJrxKYF1K&t=622

Quote from johneysvk :

Hi, while watching the NDR race i noticed that LOD2 doesn't have the skin mapped for the bonnet, you can see it pretty clearly here when cars get closer to the camera and switch from LOD2 to LOD1

https://www.youtube.com/live/BSBupTJpiIk?si=YECKCJgrJrxKYF1K&t=622

Fixed

i mean i fixed it, and updated it almost 2 hours ago, but somereason LFS dont have it...and new version not published

Did you receive an email from lfstech?
Something like this: "LFS Vehicle Mod - name_of_the_mod - status update: REQUIRES CHANGES"

Im am not into mods at all, but maybe updates need to be approved before being visible?

Quote from Evolution_R :

Did you receive an email from lfstech?
Something like this: "LFS Vehicle Mod - name_of_the_mod - status update: REQUIRES CHANGES"

Yeah, I was just been dumb and forgot to check the second config where the polygon limit was exceeded This was the first time for me so I didn't understand what happened.

Mod published.
Changes:

Changed dashboard to more bright colors and new icons.
Removed all errors in mesh.
Fixed some mappings.
Changed rims to fit in limits.
Changed some mappings, added more dark points (on steering wheel and dashboard)
Changed engine sound.
Added muffler animation.
Fixed lod2 skin mapping.

Awesome car! really good model and chassis.

Quote from rog_nilsson :

Awesome car! really good model and chassis.

Thanks, I updated the mod a couple more times to finally fix the rims and dashboard.

It's a very nice looking mod but I have been wondering what causes the slowdowns when watching on Simbroadcasts. My investigations are not complete. I'm stopping for the day but have some observations. It's not all about the number of triangles.

Incorrect setting "Concealed driver" - this should be YES - absolutely this vehicle has a concealed driver (it's not a motorbike or a kart). This one setting appears to waste around 3% of CPU with 32 on the grid.

By the way, "Wheel visibility" should be "inside covered" though I think this is only for looks now. It's not an open wheel racing car, so this will produce a better lighting effect on the wheels.

Another graphical cost is lack of texture sharing. For example the wheel objects are slower to draw than they could be because the alpha cutouts use 3 different textures. The 3 different transparent textures should share a single texture page, so LFS does not have to waste CPU time instructing D3D to switch between textures (texture switching is slow). If you set this right, then when drawing wheel alpha, instead of 3 texture switches and 3 draw calls, it would do a single texture switch and a single draw call.

There could be similar case in the main object (or other subobjects) but I haven't looked much. I do see an S and a backwards S using the same texture but flipped. Can't you use the same texture but flip the cutout?

Of course "repeating textures" cannot share a texture page. But some other textures can, and this can avoid switching between textures during the render of the car, saving CPU time.

EDIT: (next morning)

You can easily get the spoke object down to one single texture instead of 5 at the moment. How to do that:
1) Combine the 4 256 textures onto a single 512 page, the obvious way.
2) For the "unnamed" (no texture) cutout use a small white square on the new texture page. There is space beside the bolts.

More optimisations:
- If possible, combine the hub object into the spoke object. Every moving subobject is a frame rate hit.
- Change "muffler" subobject into an attachment. "Attachment" subobjects are merged into the main object so they don't cause the same frame rate hits as a moving subobject. The vibrating muffler gimmick isn't worth the frame rate hit.
- Steering wheel subobject can be made way more efficient by combining textures. The 11 small button textures could be combined onto a single texture. The [no texture] page can be eliminated by using a small square from the new texture. And the "plain transparent" texture at the end of the list can also be combined into the same texture page. So this combines 13 textures into a single texture page. Only the two repeating textures need to be left on their own page. 15 textures on the steering wheel now, can be reduced to only 3.

Let's do some maths, for 40 cars on the grid.
For the wheel objects described above, we save 4 texture changes per wheel = 16 per car = 640 per graphical frame.
For the steering wheel optimisation, we save 12 texture changes per car = 480 per graphical frame.

So by these simple changes we save 1120 calls to "Set texture" every graphical frame.

Also don't use "TEA" (Tree Edge Alpha). Tree Edge Alpha is not supported for vehicles, it's a special thing for trees with intersecting polygons that only works for world objects. Applied to a car it looks exactly the same as ALPHA so you are adding one more material for no reason.

[I notice one bug, in cutout mode when a subobject is selected: "materials : X" at the top is showing the number for the main object. I'll fix this in next editor test patch. You really should be aiming to reduce the number of materials so that number would help.]

Quote from Scawen :

whole post

Thank you for your time and explanation of how to better optimize the mod, I will definitely do it as soon as I have free time. But I wonder if the problem here is really in the textures or the number of subobjects. Lags during the broadcast occur during the crash of several cars. Is it possible that this is somehow related to the damage model of the high-polygonal mesh or something like that?

Quote from Scawen :

So this combines 13 textures into a single texture page. Only the two repeating textures need to be left on their own page. 15 textures on the steering wheel now, can be reduced to only 3

You are right about combining textures in one subobject.
But from this another question arises, what is the best way to optimize the mod? I should not use the same large texture in several subobjects, or make separate small textures for them. So if you use one big texture in two subobjects it double the graphics workload (or something like that) or not cuz it the same texture?

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Thank you for your time and explanation of how to better optimize the mod, I will definitely do it as soon as I have free time.

No problem, I was just interested, as I saw the frame rate hits, when a lot of cars were on screen, and also seemingly in panning shots with a few cars on screen.

I wondered if there were any problems in LFS so I built a profiler version to see what's up and I spotted a lot of CPU usage in "Draw driver" and "Draw meshes" (that includes subobjects) and "Draw wheels" (includes spoke objects) and also similar issues in the alpha pass. This particular CPU usage is not related in any way to number of polygons. Thousands of polygons may be drawn in a single draw call, which is also the same for one single triangle. LFS does a good job of combining all triangles of a single material, into a single draw call. No matter how many cutouts you use, they will still be combined together if they are using a single material and in a single object.

This heavy CPU usage which is (I think, roughly) double that of an XR turbo led me to look in the model a bit, specially near subobjects and spoke objects. That's where I noticed this use of multiple textures. Also the concealed driver thing which is just one switch to fix.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

But I wonder if the problem here is really in the textures or the number of subobjects. Lags during the broadcast occur during the crash of several cars. Is it possible that this is somehow related to the damage model of the high-polygonal mesh or something like that?

When the cars are initially generated (when leaving pits) and when there is a collision, this is when the number of triangles (actually vertices) is a problem. All these vertices and triangles must be created on the CPU and then sent to the graphics card. When damage occurs, the model must be deformed and it is all sent to the graphics card again.

But for a modern graphics card, this number of vertices isn't really a problem regarding drawing the car each frame (when there is no collision). The number of materials is more of a problem, and also subobjects that are not "attachments". Each movable subobject requires a new matrix to be sent to the graphics card and of course a whole batch of draw calls for its materials (which cannot be combined with the main object's materials).

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

You are right about combining textures in one subobject.
But from this another question arises, what is the best way to optimize the mod? I should not use the same large texture in several subobjects, or make separate small textures for them. So if you use one big texture in two subobjects it double the graphics workload (or something like that) or not cuz it the same texture?

Taking the example of the steering wheel, if those textures are all used only in the steering wheel, then it is a perfect case to make a special texture for that steering wheel. I imagine those 11 (or was it 12) 128x128 textures I talked about, going onto a new texture of 512x512 and you use the 16 squares, leaving a few spare.

It is not a problem to use the same texture in two different subobjects if that is convenient, or for subobjects to share a texture with the main object. But it brings no specific benefit, other than maybe reducing the total size of textures in the whole model. That is more about what texture cutouts you can fit on what pages.

For example, I wouldn't suggest using really massive textures to try to share everything in the whole model. It can be good to use smaller textures, if that is convenient for one (or a few) subobjects. So... don't worry about different subobjects sharing a texture, that is OK, but don't go mad and try to combine everything, which would require extra big textures for no benefit.

However, "attachment" subobjects are a different case, as they don't move, they are combined with the main object. So it's a good idea to share textures with the main object (and/or other attachments) in that case.


I want to help with the materials display in the cutout editor (as described, there is a bug). I am interested to try and add a CPU display in the vehicle editor so you can see the results of your improvements.

EDIT: added image showing materials in my fixed version, that will be more helpful to see the results after you share textures.

EDIT2: added another image showing the combined list of materials, when attachments are combined with main object.

New version of editor allows you to check the number of materials in subobjects: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106792

Mod updated:
Enabled concealed driver for optimization.
Wheel visibility - inside covered.
Some material\texture optimization.
Some mapping fixing.
Some mesh fixing.
Muffler is back to static attachment for optimization.
Change size rear lights to more realistic.

Some CPU results here. Note: this is an old (but still good) computer. I locked frame rate at 30 fps with a full AI grid, paused, at South City. The reason for locking frame rate is so the CPU usage results are comparable between the two versions.

I post relevant results for CPU usage. The 1st number is version 19, 2nd number is version 20 of the mod.

Solid pass:

Render car (total): 56.41 -> 47.59
Includes:
- Draw driver: 5.90 -> 2.57
- Draw meshes: 18.00 -> 14.64
- Wheel objects: 14.29 -> 12.29

Alpha sorted: 11.56 -> 8.31 (of which ~1% is fences etc)

So in total (solid + alpha, TV camera, 32 cars at 30 fps on my PC) approx: 67.0% -> 54.9%

A 12% of CPU reduction from 67% of CPU is ~18% CPU saving per car.

NOTE: This is the CPU usage. It does not consider GPU usage but we are unlikely to be GPU bound.

Quote from Scawen :

Some CPU results here. Note: this is an old (but still good) computer. I locked frame rate at 30 fps with a full AI grid, paused, at South City. The reason for locking frame rate is so the CPU usage results are comparable between the two versions.

I post relevant results for CPU usage. The 1st number is version 19, 2nd number is version 20 of the mod.

Solid pass:

Render car (total): 56.41 -> 47.59
Includes:
- Draw driver: 5.90 -> 2.57
- Draw meshes: 18.00 -> 14.64
- Wheel objects: 14.29 -> 12.29

Alpha sorted: 11.56 -> 8.31 (of which ~1% is fences etc)

So in total (solid + alpha, TV camera, 32 cars at 30 fps on my PC) approx: 67.0% -> 54.9%

A 12% of CPU reduction from 67% of CPU is ~18% CPU saving per car.

NOTE: This is the CPU usage. It does not consider GPU usage but we are unlikely to be GPU bound.

Wow, that's great, I hope I can optimize the mod even better. Thanks for this information, it is quite useful to know.

Update posted:
Fixed internal mirror.
Added pit limiter light.
Fixed aero to balance with porsche GT4.