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DoP 24h Race
(51 posts, started )
DoP 24h Race
Please note, Jan, 23th 2016 Smile
yes yes yes!
We will add more information as soon as we have some...
Before it's time to get busy Schwitz
Great! Smile
Hope I can make it again Smile
From the BurnoutCrew-Forum:
Quote from KlausAdam :Jetzt wird es langsam konkret:
Wir werden das 24h-Rennen vom 23. auf den 24. Januar 2016 veranstalten. Gefahren wird diesmal ausschließlich mit den N-GTRs auf Aston Grand Touring reversed.
Der SignIn-Server ist online und inteessierte Teams und Fahrer können sich anmelden.
Noch nicht alle Informations-Seiten sind auf den aktuellen Stand gebracht, aber das kommt alles in den nächsten Tagen.

Leider hat das Interesse an LfS auch in der letzten Zeit immer weiter nachgelassen. Um uns allen aber ein Event bieten zu können, in dem auch 24h-Rennen-Stimmung aufkommen kann, werden wir dieses Event nur starten, wenn sich am Ende mindestens 14 Teams angemeldet haben. Mit weniger Teams macht es einfach keinen Sinn.

Klaus basically said the 24h race is on January 23rd/24th, 2016 with the [email protected] The race takes place when there are 14+ teams. You can sign-up via the SignIn-Server. Tongue
Very nice and challenging combination. Smile

Turn 1 will always be tricky, one mistake and you get stuck in the gravel.
#8 - pik_d
Any restrictions on the UFR?
No, we know WR of UFR is nearly 1.5 sec faster but third place of UFR is slower than third place of XFR. So a team of excellent drivers could be faster in UFR. All others will not have any advantage.
I know that because last year the DoP was won by a XFR although the UFR should have been faster.
Keep in mind also that the UFR has to stop more often during the 24 hours.
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(Iginla) DELETED by Iginla
now you're forcing all the drivers to drive ufr even if they dont want because its just much faster than xfr. pls
#11 - troy
If I remember correctly the UFR got 10kg in one of the cityliga Aston rounds. May be worth considering.
Quote from troy :If I remember correctly the UFR got 10kg in one of the cityliga Aston rounds. May be worth considering.

It got 10kg this past season at KY2, which seemed pretty decent, and it got 15kg at AS5R in CL17, where the top 10 were all XFR.
Take a look at http://www.burnoutcrew.net/Bur ... mla/index.php/doptracker1.

We are not forcing anyone to anything. Over 24h the UFR isn't that faster as long as the drivers aren't.

And think about the following:
  1. We give the UFR a penalty of 5kg. Everyone complains the UFR is still to fast...
  2. We give the UFR a penalty of 10kg. XFR drivers still complain the UFR is too fast, UFR drivers complain it's too slow...
  3. We give the UFR a penalty of 15kg. Everyone complains we force them to drive with XFR, because UFR is just much slower than XFR...
What have we won?

At the end Cityliga is absolutely different to an endurance race. Drivers change, team performance, tyre wear and fuel consumption take much more effect. At least you'll need luck to stay away from technical problems with your car and your connection.
Quote from KlausAdam :Take a look at http://www.burnoutcrew.net/Bur ... mla/index.php/doptracker1.

We are not forcing anyone to anything. Over 24h the UFR isn't that faster as long as the drivers aren't.

And think about the following:
  1. We give the UFR a penalty of 5kg. Everyone complains the UFR is still to fast...
  2. We give the UFR a penalty of 10kg. XFR drivers still complain the UFR is too fast, UFR drivers complain it's too slow...
  3. We give the UFR a penalty of 15kg. Everyone complains we force them to drive with XFR, because UFR is just much slower than XFR...
What have we won?

At the end Cityliga is absolutely different to an endurance race. Drivers change, team performance, tyre wear and fuel consumption take much more effect. At least you'll need luck to stay away from technical problems with your car and your connection.

If 10kg is not enough, and 15 kg is too much, why not to try 12-13 kg?
Quote from przemek21061995 :If 10kg is not enough, and 15 kg is too much, why not to try 12-13 kg?

To be honest, from those 3 choices option #2 looks good to me. If both sides think it's unfair, then maybe it's actually fair?
Quote from pik_d :To be honest, from those 3 choices option #2 looks good to me. If both sides think it's unfair, then maybe it's actually fair?

I like your way of thinking Thumbs up
There are factors that can not be put into numbers: Which car is easier to drive when concentration goes down, how do they handle if there is bit damage,..
If I remember correctly the last 24h race with N-GTR did not have any ballast/restriction but the result was as mixed as it could possibly be:
P1: XFR, P2: UFR, P3: XFR, UFR, XFR, UFR, XFR, UFR, XFR, UFR ,XFR, UFR,...
Some positions were not decided until the last hour (or even last minutes), it could have just as well been completly different. No car seemed to clearly dominate, I do not see how ballast would make it better.

Something else, will there be "real" webtracker like last year?
Since some time there is lap-reset-command in LFS to give back lapcount after rejoin. So some races (like Fernbay 8h now) did not use web-tracker, just LFS-remote/status. Which is okay but tracker with bit more details can still be nice Smile
Like driven laps since last pitstop and lapcount per driver etc
That's all a bit naive Gutholz. Of course other things will affect the result as well, but if there is such an obvious inequality that is easy to deal with, it should be dealt with.
Well, the question is whether an "obvious inequality" exists in a way that is relevant?
From hotlap times on LFSW I find that hard to tell because we all know hotlaps time come to happen. Empty tank, setups not comperable to race, basically driven at 110% of limit etc. But in race there are no unlimited attempts so it does not work there. (Instead one failed attempt means massive disadvantage. Maybe not always crash but time lost by spin/slide.)
I have now watched the UFR WR, nobody will replicate that in race. Not for a single lap.
In WR hotlaps some moves might give perfect splittime but only after it has caused dozens of failed attempts. The WR shows a completly theoretical time that can be archived in a single lap by a dedicated driver willing to try over&over.
Of course similiar is true for the XFR too.
But maybe the XFR is a bit more stable/less flippy so on average it gets closer to its theoretical best performance.

It is not really "UFR is 1.5 faster than XFR" it is:
"There was guys who poured hours into finding the perfect single lap with UFR and they were faster than the guys trying for perfect single lap with XFR. After countless tries one UFR guy in Nov 2014 was 1,36s faster and another was 0,66s faster, but the others had similiar speed."
I do not mind balance-ballast and it is not my choice anyway, but I have seen enough races that WR times are no serious arguement in car choice to me. The average matters, not the freakish outliers.
Gutholz, you've been around a long time. Do you remember when all the big endurance leagues were dominated by the FZR? Leagues slowly increased the ballast until it got to around 26kg, then the XRR dominated.

When skill is roughly equal at the front of the grid, even a little bit of ballast can make a world of difference. When there's a huge gap in skill of course it doesn't matter. You don't use ballast to balance the entire grid, just the people who can get the most out of the car.

I don't mean any disrespect to you, because I certainly don't get everything out of the cars either, I'm usually 0.5-1.0 seconds off the top few. Even so, I can still appreciate that seemingly small differences make things much more even. And for those who are going for an overall win, 10kg can absolutely make the difference between choosing one car or another.
Put some handicap(s) on that thing, it just would be common sense to do so. UFR is faster, so put some handicaps to balance it out. Obviously, in a field where most drivers are not anywhere near the WR time you most likely won't feel a difference but in a more competitive field you will begin to feel that little advantage build over time.
Gutholz explained it in a very good way.
But again, look at the result of DoP from last year. There were no handicaps for XFR or UFR and XFR won. Against all of your theories the field was completely mixed up. Even the fastest lap was driven by the XFR. Maybe we should think about a handicap for XFR Smile
But to bring this discussion to an end: We have never given any handicaps in any race of the DoP. And so we won't for next race.

@Gutholz
We will have the tracker like last year. The new LfS-feature "lap-reset" wil be implemented as well, so you'll get real race information via LfS-Remote and by the live-stream. But tracker with further information will still be available.
At KY3 the difference between the UFR and XFR world records is 0.43 seconds. At AS6R the difference is 1.36 seconds. It's not surprising that it's more equal at KY3 than AS6R will be.
Once again: no handicaps.
In the history of these 24h races we have had no handicaps over years. May be, its a kind of DoP tradition.

24 hours Races are more than the first corner or 0,25 sec more ore less in one lap.
If your team want to choose the faster car, we won't you prevent from escaping Cool

So, these weekend we could announce more details.
Any chance of a track changes to Rockingham?

DoP 24h Race
(51 posts, started )
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