The online racing simulator
16h 2011 protests
1
(37 posts, started )
16h 2011 protests
116 E. Rojas's car would not let me enter angle to the output curve of the oval before the first set making me crashing against the fences
Quote from d_cury :116 E. Rojas's car would not let me enter angle to the output curve of the oval before the first set making me crashing against the fences

Quote from commandermas :Protests are to filed in via email to 16hsupport@dms2003.org

Maybe if you looked a bit at the mirrors and to the right before turning, were the two cars side by side.
yes, but I will give way to enter and my I closed the place guardrail without me, so I hit the fences, driving a GT1 and being several times behind us should have been more careful, we ruined a sure podium
ahh!
How much I sorry

Dejá de hacer conventillo, para variar.
Si tenés una protesta presentala como se debe, una vez que leas las reglas no te hará mal.
conventillo? gil! no te metas si no estabas en el server boludin!!
Ja, Ja, naturlich! Sprechen Sie some more human language?
Quote from GuRu_PL :Ja, Ja, naturlich! Sprechen Sie some more human language?

Oh that's so going on my signature...XD
all penalties and the results of the protest discussions. the final results will be released soon.

116 30 Secs didn't do his DT penalty
116 1 Lap Shift+S directly after finish line and rejoin
116 Chat 15 seconds

150 Chat 15 seconds

216 Chat 15 seconds

102 Chat 15 seconds

220 1 Lap Shift+S directly after finish line and rejoin

288 1 Lap Shift+S directly after finish line and rejoin

216 1 Lap Shift+S directly after finish line and rejoin

199 1 Lap Shift+S directly after finish line and rejoin

257 1 Lap Shift+S directly after finish line and rejoin


Protests:

Server 2
Lap 1
Turn 1 - 198 spins 101

Unnecessary move in lap 1, could have been overtaken later that lap. 20 seconds for 198


Against: #278
Lap: 5
Time: 00:17:10.00 - 00:17:31
Description: #278 hits us on the rear left corner destabilizing our car and sending us into a spin. We believe the contact was avoidable and once it happened #278 could have lifted instead of accelerating into us.

Agreed, incident was avoidable. 20 seconds for 278


Against: #323
Lap: 154
Time: 09:39:30 - 09:39:51
Description: #323 hits us from behind after being lapped. He made a dive-bomb maneuver on the inside when we were a bit offline because we had just completed the inter-class pass. There was no need for them to try and re-pass us. The contact was avoidable.

seems like a lag for me, if you watch the server replay, you are not touching at all, there was plenty of space for you to drive. no penalty


#180 vs #150
Lap 12 vor der Brücke (Anfang Split 3)
Total unnötiges Manöver vom FXR-Panzer. War doch klar dass der ohne jeglichen Schaden weiterfahren kann und wir fast im Kies stecken geblieben wären!

Raceincident. He was in front and you crashed into him, as you chose to ignore him. This incident was avoidable by you. no penalty
german:
Rennunfall. Er war vorne und ihr seid ihm reingefahren, da ihr ihn ignoriert habt. In der Cockpit Perspektive ist klar erkennbar, dass er von hinter euch nach links zieht, dann könnt ihr nicht einfach auf der Ideallinie bleiben. Das hättet ihr vermeiden können. keine Strafe


My Car: Angry Angus Racing - NGT - #398
Their Car: Alpha Virtual Racing - GT2 - #200
Time of Incident: Server Time - 4 hrs 52 mins (our lap #72)
Car #200 ran square into the back of us on the exit of the oval chicane and pushed us down the track, caused us to hit the wall and roll over.
This incident cost us over 3 minutes as I tried to limp back to the pits.

Far too agressive lapping. 20 seconds for 200


on lap 191 and the 11hs.49 minutes 30 seconds of my career (auto 207) the driver of the car 116 E. Rojas who came several times GT1 behind the overshoot starts, I'll turn over, and does nothing but place to keep me on track impact with the guardrail making me, ruining a sure podium.

Incident clearly avoidable by 116, he was the one who wanted to overtake. 30 seconds for 116
Maybe you forgot the Crew 198 on server 2

Time 5:29:02.000 ended in the sand where they are standing still, then SHIFT + P.
At the time 10:32:40.000 remained on the roof and then another SHIFT + P.

Rules:
1.8 If a driver is leaving the race, or stops on the track (disconnect, flip-over, out of fuel etc.) the car can immediately join the race again, but with the penalty of 1 lap. Either the current driver or another signed in driver of the car can join the race again.

I'm wrong?
Quote from HL_Nano :ahh!
How much I sorry

Dejá de hacer conventillo, para variar.
Si tenés una protesta presentala como se debe, una vez que leas las reglas no te hará mal.

Quote from imamura72 :Maybe you forgot the Crew 198 on server 2

Time 5:29:02.000 ended in the sand where they are standing still, then SHIFT + P.
At the time 10:32:40.000 remained on the roof and then another SHIFT + P.

Rules:
1.8 If a driver is leaving the race, or stops on the track (disconnect, flip-over, out of fuel etc.) the car can immediately join the race again, but with the penalty of 1 lap. Either the current driver or another signed in driver of the car can join the race again.

I'm wrong?

No you are not wrong, but in fact, we decided, as this was a long track, that these penaltylaps weren't given to all shift+p/s situations only to the ones that were used to gain an advantage, such as shift+s shortly after completing the lap und quickly rejoin to avoid a pitstop. If you were more than 40 seconds in a lap, you didn't have an advantage, so you were spared by the admins.
Quote from commandermas :No you are not wrong, but in fact, we decided, as this was a long track, that these penaltylaps weren't given to all shift+p/s situations only to the ones that were used to gain an advantage, such as shift+s shortly after completing the lap und quickly rejoin to avoid a pitstop. If you were more than 40 seconds in a lap, you didn't have an advantage, so you were spared by the admins.

So I think that you have not checked the replays.
Time 10:32:40.000 is first turn of lap.

But:
5:29:02.000 Cars stopped in the sand. RACE OVER.
10:32.40.000 Cars upside down on the roof. RACE OVER.

Shift+p is not an advantage?
I think is a BIG advantage.
Quote from commandermas :No you are not wrong, but in fact, we decided, as this was a long track, that these penaltylaps weren't given to all shift+p/s situations only to the ones that were used to gain an advantage, such as shift+s shortly after completing the lap und quickly rejoin to avoid a pitstop. If you were more than 40 seconds in a lap, you didn't have an advantage, so you were spared by the admins.

Strange interpretation of a rule that originally seemed very clear ..
Quote from imamura72 :So I think that you have not checked the replays.
Time 10:32:40.000 is first turn of lap.

But:
5:29:02.000 Cars stopped in the sand. RACE OVER.
10:32.40.000 Cars upside down on the roof. RACE OVER.

Shift+p is not an advantage?
I think is a BIG advantage.

3.3.7 After a flip over, means if you are on the roof or on the side and no longer in motion, or stop on the track out of fuel, you immediately have to shift +p or shift + s to clear the accident site. A new participation is immediately possible with the deduction of 1 lap.

But because of the huge amount of timeloss on this track (some teams lost 3 minutes because of something like that) we looked at all situations and decided that in cases, where the timeloss is bigger than the time needed for a pitstop we would not give that lap.

more interesting is, that there are timelosses from 0 and 20 seconds between leaving the race and restarting and then from about 45 to 4 minutes. If you look at the replay you might say at some UFR flips in the first corner, that they were intentionally, but if you have a look at the last pitstop of that team, you see that they were running in a good speed for some laps and then flip far before there pitstop. In such cases we didn't give the penalties either.

This rule is only to prohibit intentional disconnects/shift+s/shift+p shortly after finish line to avoid a pitstop. In cases where this was obvious we gave the penalty.
In real race a flip over or a car stopped in the sand equivalent to the conclusion of the race.
Shift+p allows to continue the race with a new car, including engine that can not be repaired in pit stops.
You keep thinking that it is not an advantage?
Quote from imamura72 :in real race a flip over or a car stopped in the sand equivalent to the conclusion of the race.
Shift+p allows to continue the race with a new car, including engine that can not be repaired in pit stops.
You keep thinking that it is not an advantage?

+1
Quote from commandermas :3.3.7 After a flip over, means if you are on the roof or on the side and no longer in motion, or stop on the track out of fuel, you immediately have to shift +p or shift + s to clear the accident site. A new participation is immediately possible with the deduction of 1 lap.

But because of the huge amount of timeloss on this track (some teams lost 3 minutes because of something like that) we looked at all situations and decided that in cases, where the timeloss is bigger than the time needed for a pitstop we would not give that lap.

.

10:32.40.000 Cars upside down on the roof; shifth+p. Time lap 4.02. Time pit stop from 4.10 to 4.30.
I'm confused.
1. they had kind of brand new tires, so they were coming from pitstop not avoiding the next. they had still more than 50% of that stint to do

2. they had to do another short stint which cost them time, because they didn't do it at the end, but in between with a full tank, so they lost more than the time they "gained".

3. This clearly wasn't on purpose, so they didn't receive the penalty
OK, give us the official results...
Quote from commandermas :1. they had kind of brand new tires, so they were coming from pitstop not avoiding the next. they had still more than 50% of that stint to do

2. they had to do another short stint which cost them time, because they didn't do it at the end, but in between with a full tank, so they lost more than the time they "gained".

3. This clearly wasn't on purpose, so they didn't receive the penalty

1. It 'clear that you do not want to or can not give these penalties
2. Apparently the rules at yor home are not equal for all.
3.In the future I will choose more carefully the events to attend.
4. They started the selections for a new cast. http://www.coloradocafe.it/sito/tour_casting.php is your chance, good luck.
Quote from commandermas :
This rule is only to prohibit intentional disconnects/shift+s/shift+p shortly after finish line to avoid a pitstop. In cases where this was obvious we gave the penalty.

This is very simplistic. The use of those key combinations also repairs the engine, which does not happen during a normal pit stop, and it is not little.

Quote from commandermas :3.3.7 After a flip over, means if you are on the roof or on the side and no longer in motion, or stop on the track out of fuel, you immediately have to shift +p or shift + s to clear the accident site. A new participation is immediately possible with the deduction of 1 lap.

But because of the huge amount of timeloss on this track (some teams lost 3 minutes because of something like that) we looked at all situations and decided that in cases, where the timeloss is bigger than the time needed for a pitstop we would not give that lap.

If this had been written before the race, probably we will not be here today to do discussion . Maybe it would be best to put this thing in regulation, drivers must be informed before races, not after.

Good work
You all seem to think, that you can organize such an event better than i can. Yes I say I because the most work for this event was done by me. This is an event that should provide fun and as most of the feedback is negative this year, i most probably won't do this any more, so there won't be a 16h next year, or you can prove that you can do it better.

The rules were mostly taken from last year, which was announced. There were rulechanges that i didn't post in order to avoid "cheating". There were few teams that used shift+p/s in the race and none of them had a bigger engine problem, so we decided to be kind.

It seems like every option we take is the wrong, so the only right thing left for us is to stop organizing the 16h.
commandermas, don't even think about discontinuing the event.

It's natural for teams to get upset when they perceive the rules to be inconsistent—as a guy who has adminned many top-level series I have dealt with this many times. All I can say is that until you've dealt with guys like Rudi Kolz and Jack Basford, you ain't seen nothing yet.

It's also completely natural for teams to want to get every position they can. The PLZ guys clearly knew that they would be moved up a position if CoRe got penalized, and from their interpretation of the rules they felt sure this would happen. As a CoRe manager I'm obviously glad we didn't get penalized for those incidents, but I can guarantee that I would be making the same arguments if I were in their position.

In short, don't take the criticisms too harshly... just learn from the experience and make the rules more transparent in the future.
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16h 2011 protests
(37 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG