I know this is a stupid question, but it really has been pondering me for a while: Do you think you could learn how to drive somewhat, and possibly save yourself a few lessons by using this sim?

I mean, I know race cars behave differently to normal cars, I let my friend have a go at the wheel and laughed as he tried to get clutch/bite point and was totally flustered by it. But surely if the physics are as accurate as they are, it is possible? Obviously you can't practice somethings, but me and my friends are on that tipsy line where we're not sure.

Thanks for reading my stupid post

Well, I joined LFS before my driving (like six months) and, well, it didn't hurt. Sure, the physics are great and all, but unless you are driving in LFS like you do on the roads (or vice versa), it can't be too much of a help.

Also, without a wheel, it isn't going to help with real life driving. Seems like you have a wheel though, so it might help.

I thinking playing racing games in general just give you a feeling for cars in general. There are those out there who need to be told gas is right, brake is left. So, basically, you have a nice start, but don't expect it to make you a brilliant driver out of the gatee.

I figured as much, and I agree that spacial awareness plays a major part in driving irl, you can't just forget about your surroundings. Thanks for the feedback, it would be interesting if anyone else has a different look on this.

I apologize for such a question, it just seems interesting on how a sim racer would fare in a real car after so much practice.

I'm not aware of any racing game that properly models how to launch a car with a clutch, mostly because you have no real sense of movement of the car in response throttle and clutch response.

In real life, for a manual transmission, the key is to use partial throttle, with clutch fullty depressed, and slowly release the clutch pedal until the clutch starts to engage but still slip, and the car starts to move, then to hold the clutch pedal still in that position, allowing the clutch to slip until the car has gained enough speed that it's clear that the clutch is no longer slipping, and then you fully release the clutch pedal.

The key point here is learing to hold the clutch pedal still while the car is gaining speed. Sometimes this is badly described as releasing the clutch slowly, but what you're really doing is holding the clutch pedal at a fixed position while the car gains speed.

Eventually you'll learn to modulate throttle and clutch inputs so they are coordinated with how fast you are trying to launch, but the actual movements will vary from car to car.

I have to agree, the awareness of whats going on around you is very important. There is almost nothing worse on the streets than drivers who are so focused on what's happening in front of and in their car, that they have no time to check their mirrors. It can be dangerous overtaking such drivers, even on the Autobahn/Highway.

Also, my experience from beeing a sim racer longer than an actual real-life driver is, that of course you kind of get the basic movement of the car. What I mean is: Steering with your eyes. You will always steer towards where you are looking at. At some point you don't have to actively steer into some direction, but rather just look into that direction and your "Automatism" or maybe even subconscious (as Silver Arrows already mentioned) will steer there.. The basics for that I think I learned with Geoff Crammonds Grand Prix and Grand Prix 2 and of course GP Legends.
It won't just be there then when you sit in a real car, though. But you will get there faster again.

The other way around though, driving in real life an then sit infront of a computer screen and try to drive a simulator doesn't give you any advantage. Since all the other input than visual is missing you basically start from scratch.

Short answer: no. You will NEVER learn to drive a car on public roads using LFS. Not with G27 either. Just no.

only thing you might be able to practice is parking.
like set up some tires or pylons in autocross mode and try to park with as few turns as possible or something.
with headtracking you could even look around.

While it sure as hell wouldn't hurt to indulge yourself, it is by far, NOT the best learning tool.

I have actually tried to take my sim racing experience and transfer it to real driving during my permit days. It was a pretty big failure. It pretty much only served as an aid to get comfortable with the car a little quicker. I've actually developed 2 driving styles, one for sim racing, and one for in an actual car. Even while pushing a car to it's limits, I cannot use any of my sim racing experience for it.

Absolutely nothing will beat real experience. I saw it wouldn't hurt to try though. It might help to be prepared to start from square one though.

Well, i tried to teach driving to my little cousing (she is 11) with my G25 using the H pattern.

I made a setup with shorter first gear and a few tweaks and tell her to drive at legal speeds.

It certanly helped her to understand whats going on in the car. After an hour or so she was able to make upshifts and downshifts pretty well. She even learned to avoid the car moving sideways while changing gear (typical noob mistake) and that kind of basic stuff.

The father didn´t knew anything about this and a week later he was amazed when his daughter was correcting him for not putting a lower gear entering a slow corner and as the car was underpowered at the exit

So, it´s not bad to get the basic feeling for the basic driving movements (clutch, braking, H pattern, etc.)

You can learn to drive a car no problem - once you understand the basic dynamics then poor clutch simulation etc you will pick up very quick in a real car.

Saying that, however, 95% of learning to drive is not about making the car move - it's about lane positioning, indication, observation and most importantly - other drivers.

Defensive driving. Thank all astral forces yesterday I was with my eyes open on the other drivers, some looser tried to change lane without giving any signal or looking in the mirrors.

LFS good to learn how to drive?
Maybe learn basic stuff, but only with a decente wheel, pedals and shifter. Standard PC wheels looks and feels... gamey.

i pretty much learned how to drift using LFS and i know other drifters who have used to to practice (some of Australias top drifters used to practice in LFS)

steering felt the same in my old car as it does in LFS so it was pretty easy when i 1st went drifting, already knew what to do

Drifting and Racing is another matter - I've never driven a RWD car up until my Caterham experience and look where I got with that...

Same for racing.

But on-road driving is a totally different beast.

I might just be repeating what other people have said, but:

Learn to drive: Yes I believe you can. If you have a wheel with 3 pedals and h shifter, then I believe it could teach the physical control of a car e.g. Clutch down to change gear, clutch down when braking so you don't stall and even to an extent getting the car moving etc.

Learn to drive safely and on public roads: No, Definately not. For driving on the road, as said before, it is so much more than just moving the car around which racing sims can't provide.

Only idea I got, is cruise servers, but hopefully there is not so manny "nutters" irl

It will help of the awarenes, looking in mirrors, keeping speed limits aso. guess it is a okay way to get the "basics", but irl practise is best imo

If you've never driven before, it could save you the first 15 minutes of your very first lesson where the controls and how to move off are explained to you. That's about it.

After lots of years I drove a car last week. I normally play LFS with G25 so first thing I had to get used to different sensibility of controls. A real car is nowhere near the G25 pedals. Next step was getting used to clutch, but surprisingly I stalled a lot more often with the XFGT that with that real car. Parking decenlty for me ws almost impossible in LFS, even in pit going straight, you just dont know where the car is and you cant lean your head towards ahead! In the real car was quite easy.

As said above in a real car you have awareness of what is around you and perspective of the space occupied by car. LFS helped me to get rythm quite quick cause after a while my body started to use the reflexes aquired by playing and I found myself shifting gear, steering right and looking oncoming left cars (didnt have to press any button!) at the same time. Only that the gearbox of that car was awful.

What my experience told me is: with LFS you get used to the controls of a car and your muscles memorize the movements.
Sensibility of pedal wheel ecc is different, but it's like when you drive a new car for the first time.
You are nervous less time.
In LFS you drive on a track, even if it's a cruise server. It wont help you in everyday driving, moreover, you know its a game so crashing doesnt worry you a lot. If somebody can do a track similar to a city road maybe would be different.
There are more of small difference that I wont list for post size reason, but the conlcusion is that LFS can help you in some aspect of real driving but only if you always keep in mind that cant subsitute a real teaching or experience.

Thanks for reading.

Quote from RasmusL :

Short answer: no. You will NEVER learn to drive a car on public roads using LFS. Not with G27 either. Just no.

Mhmm, From your prospective No you cant. You cant judge other people, a racing simulator may help people learning to basics on driving.

Helped me to pass my race license.
I Don't think I would of failed without LFS, But it did help.

Cruising on LFS would be the best bet to help. Act like its real life. Change gear as you would think in real life.
I Agree with Crashgate, it will probably save like 15 minutes of your first lesson, But that's 15 minutes saved.

Quote from RasmusL :

Short answer: no. You will NEVER learn to drive a car on public roads using LFS. Not with G27 either. Just no.

I disagree. LFS and my G25 taught me how to drive a car. On my first driving lesson, I got in the car and drove away. Before that I had never driven a real car before.

OP: LFS and a proper wheel can teach you how to drive a car. It won't teach you how to drive it in traffic though.

I would say yes, but only in part. Nobody first steps in the driver's position of a car with no idea at all what is going on. We all have seen car before, have been in cars as passengers, have seen them on T.V. or in our case have driven virtual cars. Each of these probably bring different addition to your pre-driving experience. The first three obviously bring a lot of it, for we all basically know what to do when we step in the car. What remains is fine tuning (at least for most people).

Provided that a game is realistic enough, I don't see why it wouldn't bring its share of knowledge about driving. As to what exactly is this experience consisted of, I do not know.

From using a G25 on lfs for a while previously i reckon i saved at least 5 lessons. My instructor actually asked me where i had learned to drive, since my technique (steering, throttle and brake control and spacial awareness etc) were pretty much spot on. It was particularly noticeable doing the emergency brake with threshold braking, lol. But yea, i think it is a very good way of getting your bearings, so long as you remember that the clutch is a little different :P

On another note, in one lesson i got told off for left foot braking and being in too low a gear all the time, which is a bit of a hangover from lfs!

Quote from J@mes :

On another note, in one lesson i got told off for left foot braking and being in too low a gear all the time, which is a bit of a hangover from lfs!

Happened to me too, I was doing lef foot brking onthe real car, meantime telling myself no to do that because it is not the gme and maybe dangerous!

There are road driving simulators, which simulate real driving situations and rules. I think you can learn from them, quite much actually. But LFS is not road driving sim.

When driving within speed limits, in traffic, it has almost nothing to do with racing. You don't have to know anything about weight transfers and other essential racing stuff. You are driving so slow and so far away from the limits that there is almost no skills needed for actual handling part.

In public roads safer is better. It's all about anticipation and knowing where other cars are and what they are going to do. And not getting aggressive or angry in any situation. And being smooth and predictable so others can anticipate what you are going to do.

I'll say if you love to drive LFS and love racing you are probably very bad driver for the first years.

At least i was, i crashed twice quite bad, not with other cars but with tree and stone. 2nd time was bad, we were racing with my friend, driving the same road we have driven so many times. It was winter and slippery road. He was right on my tail. 170kmh, tight turn ahead.. Brakes, brakes, brakes... OMG it's slippery. Seat belt broke few of my ribs. Thank god it was on.

And back then i used to think i am very good driver.. Well, i think i was better racer than average john doe, but very bad and risky driver in public roads. There is a big difference.

And this is definitely not a brag, more like warning. Take it ez..

I was lucky, still alive and didn't hurt anyone else either.

EDIT:
This is driving test simulation where you can practice lot of things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wogpRazlu8
http://www.focusmm.co.uk/shop/ ... pr-1317.html?MMCF_dtstemp

And others exists as well, google will help..

Quote from mdmx :

There are road driving simulators, which simulate real driving situations. Like deer jumping in front of you, driving in high traffic, slippery turns, and stuff like that. I think you can learn from them, quite much actually. But LFS is not road driving sim.

When driving within speed limits, in traffic, it has almost nothing to do with racing. You don't have to know anything about weight transfers and other essential racing stuff. You are driving so slow and so far away from the limits that there is almost no skills needed for actual handling part.

In public roads safer is better. It's all about anticipation and knowing where other cars are and what they are going to do. And not getting aggressive or angry in any situation.

I'll say if you love to drive LFS and love racing you are probably very bad driver for the first years.

At least i was, i crashed twice quite bad, not with other cars but with tree and stone. 2nd time was bad, we were racing with my friend, driving the same road we have driven so many times. It was winter and slippery road. He was right on my tail. 170kmh, tight turn ahead.. Brakes, brakes, brakes... OMG it's slippery. Seat belt broke few of my ribs. Thank god it was on.

And back then i used to think i am very good driver.. Well, i think i was better racer than average john doe, but very bad and risky driver in public roads. There is a big difference.

And this is definitely not a brag, more like warning. Take it ez..

I was lucky, still alive and didn't hurt anyone else either.

ok guys i knw this off topic but im wonderin how to make like team site with those thing sayin if ur online racing offline or spectating so plz get bk to me if u wanna join my team email underdog2000@hotmail.co.uk oh and if u wanna help me with site reply bk

Karting with Direct Drive, youll become an awesome driver