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[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4443 posts, closed, started )
Quote from Scawen :
...

Anyway, we have not died and we are not sipping cocktails on a tropical beach. Actually we are working on LFS. I'm developing the physics, Victor is keep things running, Eric is working on things too. We've done a load of work that we want to release, partly for the excitement of it, but we also have mortgages and other bills to pay and the releases will increase sales, so financially it would also be a great idea to get it out there!

Nothing else I can do do really, I'm just trying to get my current LFS projects finished and released. Threats of people "leaving" LFS, predictions of impending doom and so on don't really make any difference. I'm not about to release unfinished stuff and I will still get plently of sleep and relaxation time, and look after the other things I need to look after and develop LFS physics in whatever time it takes. Then we'll get there in the end and we'll send a notification email when the patch is ready, so you can all have a go on an improved LFS with more content.

It's great to hear from Scawen and get an clear picture of the situation.

Reading between the lines, I get the impression you don't want to release any new intermediate content, for fear of reducing the significance of the next update. That's understandable.

What I don't understand is why this policy continues, with respect to history. Several good (road) tracks (within the existing model) could have emerged in this time. Why not release a paid content update, while dev continues on more diffcult updates.

This would satisfy your financial needs and the communities needs.
guys, all we have to do, is just search for places to mention LFS, like if someone comments on a youtube video whats the best racing game, reply LFS, if your friends are bored at home, LFS, if somebody wants to train for their drivers license and figure out what a car does under cirtain circumstances, LFS.

i look for places to advertise lfs
Thanks for the post Scawen.
One simple post from a dev in this section is refreshing!
Quote from Scawen :

Threats of people "leaving" LFS, predictions of impending doom and so on don't really make any difference.

Yeah, because you already got the 40 dls or so of people who bought it
I understand wanting the Scirocco to be perfect, but why not release it now with the current tire physics model? I mean, we'll experience the difference with all the other cars, so why not give us the scirocco, let us drive it with the current tire physics, and then once you finish the new tire physics we can be in awe of your awesome creation!
what would be the point? We have the FXO and the XFG.
Quote from legoflamb :what would be the point? We have the FXO and the XFG.

The point would be something new...Something we haven't drive thousands of miles in...
Quote from 5haz :iRacing is frustrating, I'd love to try it but I'm not renting the bloody thing, especially seeing as it appears to be a bit rough around the edges still.

My initial impressions of iRacing were that it was still a bit rough around the edges as well, although after using it for a while, getting used to it and seeing a few updates I have gone ahead and subscribed for two years as well as purchased a bit of content. I intend to purchase more content as my lic progresses.

Their current tyre physics model is already very good and they are also working on releasing new tyre physics at some point soon, some have criticised the tyre physics but I find it quite predictable and forgiving when driving good lines. I can easily hang a tyre off the track on exit without losing it for example, new drivers to iRacing seem to have some trouble keeping a car straight but I feel that it is mostly because they don't know/drive a good line and tend to be too jerky with inputs unbalancing the car.

Good hardware is a requirement I think for controllability in iRacing you can't get away with a low steering lock as easily, for example - I use a 540deg in iRacing where in LFS I could easily use 340deg. Also it pays to experiment with brake pedal setup a bit because you certainly don't want to be continually locking tyres on corner entry, iRacing doesn't have a max brake pressure setting but it does have a brake force curve which I find I need to experiment with for each car to get best driving feel. I'd also think setting up a load cell for the brake pedal would benefit you far more in iRacing than LFS. The squash ball mod would likely work well with iRacing also.

iRacing is a subscription based model and is a lot more expensive than LFS. The idea of subscription put me off a bit as well at first but my rationalisation is that you don't own LFS either it is a license paid every now an then for content. In LFS if your serious and do leagues or are involved in a team someone is paying for servers which has a cost and someone is maintaining stats for the league etc all which costs someone time or money. iRacing has a subscription based model plus pay for content - with that you get a massive league system with servers provided, additionally you can buy content as you go so there is always something new to drive.

Bottom line is yes it is more expensive but it is not expensive for a serious hobby, on a two year subscription it costs me $7.50 per month for the 'league system' and so far I've spent $180 on content. I'd have to spend more to race RC electric cars so to me that is good value! The other bonus is you only get serious racers that are willing to pay.

I have loved LFS to bits for six years and it will always have a place for me. I will still likely buy new content for LFS in the future but for the time being at least I'm thoroughly enjoying iRacing. I do hope that LFS does become all that it was intended to be as it still has unique and outstanding features. It's good to hear from Scawen even if it's not what we really want to hear.

Ultimately I'm a fanboy of both sims
Thanks for the progress report.

I have no bad feelings about the delay in the development of new physics. Everyone, who has been involved in doing such things, would agree, that these things happen from time to time. But I still don't get, why you don't release the new track, why you don't improve those cockpits, which still look a bit outdated. In my opinion most people are a bit pissed because of the lack of new content, not because of the delay of the new physics.
I think Scawen's update tell it as it is, he is no longer giving LFS 100% as he did up to the BF1 and we will have to wait until he feels like it to do more.

What i cant understand is why Rockingham and the GTR dashes Etc cannot be put out now, we have used the current tyre physics for years and they are OK (Not perfect but we use them) and you are not telling me that the physics are holding up everything else.

I remember the pole which clearly showed that a GT Prototype was the one thing users wanted so another quick fix would be to release a FO8 based GT with a LMS body.

Just after Scawen's post 3 more of our team signed up to iRacing and its getting harder to find a reason to support LFS any more.
Quote from birder :I think Scawen's update tell it as it is, he is no longer giving LFS 100% as he did up to the BF1 and we will have to wait until he feels like it to do more.

What i cant understand is why Rockingham and the GTR dashes Etc cannot be put out now, we have used the current tyre physics for years and they are OK (Not perfect but we use them) and you are not telling me that the physics are holding up everything else.

I remember the pole which clearly showed that a GT Prototype was the one thing users wanted so another quick fix would be to release a FO8 based GT with a LMS body.

Just after Scawen's post 3 more of our team signed up to iRacing and its getting harder to find a reason to support LFS any more.

While I don’t disagree that the lack of updates is a shame, and I can agree with your point about the gtr interiors and rockingham (I must of missed the part where it was announced that rockingham is finished.) However, you moan about 3 more of your team leaving to go play iRacing which begs some questions for me. Firstly even if/when they do you could continue the team anyway and have it more as clan over multiple racing sims could you not? Even if they leave, are you saying that they will not return when the patch comes out? And finally, are you really saying that one new track and a few new interiors would convince those who are leaving to stay?
i woud love Scawen to post the new physics just to "feel" them
Thanks for the detailed procrastination report
I'm not leaving LFS whatever happens .. Best game in the universe > LFS. (that's a dot, end of the line, end of my oppinion, even tho i'm demo racer -_-')
Pretty much what I expected, and I'm sure it's what I've said in LFS' defence all these months (and years). If you need a PR guy, look no further

I miss LFS and would happily play it right now (maybe not right now since I'm at work) if I had a working wheel. I'm more than happy to wait for the new stuff. Just a shame there's no way to get some of it pushed through while other stuff waits, but it's not always possible.
Quote from Greboth :While I don’t disagree that the lack of updates is a shame, and I can agree with your point about the gtr interiors and rockingham (I must of missed the part where it was announced that rockingham is finished.) However, you moan about 3 more of your team leaving to go play iRacing which begs some questions for me. Firstly even if/when they do you could continue the team anyway and have it more as clan over multiple racing sims could you not? Even if they leave, are you saying that they will not return when the patch comes out? And finally, are you really saying that one new track and a few new interiors would convince those who are leaving to stay?

Our Team does race other sims, we have 2 servers on nKpro, others on GTR Evo, plus iRacing, what i was saying is that 3 members had held off paying for iRacing on the understanding that the LFS update was just around the corner but lets face facts its months away and if Scawen is only working on it when he feels like it its most likely years away.

And no, Rockingham and GTR Updates will not save LFS but at least it would get a bit of buzz back while the big one arrives. Over the last 14 weeks every Thursday we use different tracks and cars but we have run out unless we do AS1 in the BF1 and the like.

Last night it was KY2 with the MRT, great fun for an hour

The point is that some of us dont want to go at all and something new, "ANYTHING NEW" would help, but i get the feeling that the next thing we will get is a language pack for the planet Zarg or something else we dont use. (I dont speak zargian )

I am sorry to say that the devs have taken LFS from number 1 to an also ran and yes they will all come back when the update comes out, for about 2 months but i think they need to add something every 2 months to keep people happy
Quote from birder :The point is some that some of us dont want to go at all

Errr, Then don't play iRacing? Find something else to do.

I understand the frustration of nothing new but there is plenty of other games to play (apart from lfs and iRacing or racing at all) but no-one and nothing is forcing you to play other games. You may have saturated yourself with lfs so want something, in which case take a break but it is up the individual. Nothing there is down to the lack of updates. On the subject of new content new buzz, if people are truely that fed up of lfs then while the new content will be good, it would soon return to 'normal'. So maybe the patch is release, your team mates play lfs but 3 months later they still end up back at iRacing / NKP / GTR etc.
Quote from Scawen :
My work rate has not been very high these few months, I admit..... instead I just sorted out other things unrelated to LFS...... it's true that I don't do the same hours that I used to in the early days, when LFS was my hobby, my passion and my work all in one. Now it's more my work

This is fairly obvious considering the delay in issuing any meaningful updates. Quite a devastating statement wrt the long term future of LFS.

Quote from Scawen :
I'm developing the physics

On a 'can be bothered' basis by the sound of it.

Quote from Scawen :
Victor is keep things running

Yes, that t-shirt competition was certainly something...

Quote from Scawen :
Eric is working on things too.

Painting the kitchen, building a patio?

Quote from Scawen :
We've done a load of work that we want to release, partly for the excitement of it, but we also have mortgages and other bills to pay and the releases will increase sales, so financially it would also be a great idea to get it out there!

Have to reserve judgement on that, but certainly I expect the next big patch to be revolutionary. Anything less will be a big disappointment.

Will continue to keep the faith, but its getting harder every day
-_-
Quote from HVS5b :Will continue to keep the faith, but its getting harder every day

I'm not asking you for faith. I'm asking you to make sure you are subscribed to the newsletter.

It's a funny thing how when you create something good for people, eventually you will be insulted by some of them.

Anyway, I am happy that most people did understand my post and haven't taken it negatively.

Making a post got me subscribed to the thread again but I'll switch that off again, to avoid this kind of distraction.
I really don't understand why people feel they need to "stay" or "leave" LFS, its a piece of software, if you are bored with it, play something else.

I've not played LFS in at least a year, am I bored with it?, yes, does it bother me?, no, am I still interested in the developement?, of course, I wouldn't be here otherwise.

I see alot of this these days, people who feel that the admission price of a piece of software somehow gives them vasted interest in the product, makes them feel as its their product, makes them not only over defensive, but also seems to make them lose any type of rational thought over said product.

Its so simple, if you are bored, play something else, I really can't understand why that is so hard to comprehend.
+1
Quote from danowat :I see alot of this these days, people who feel that the admission price of a piece of software somehow gives them vasted interest in the product,

Don't you remember the great Nintendo vs Sega wars of the late eighties? Children always get caught up in this mindless tribalism around whatever their interests may be. These days it's mostly software (or hardware) products, so that's where you'll see the fanaticism. Add the wonderful Internet, where any annoying loudmouth can get his voice heard, and you get what this forum has devolved into.
Quote from wien :Don't you remember the great Nintendo vs Sega wars of the late eighties?

I do, but the problem these days is that the internet and forums offer a mouth piece to any and all numpties.
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[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4443 posts, closed, started )
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