The online racing simulator
[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4436 posts, closed, started )
Quote from e.M :didnt wanna to make a new thread becouse maybe its a common thing so racing in derby server i got a red text(like timedout) that there was- too many physics objects though nothing else happened besides the text i believe its becouse of lyt but it shouldnt happen now should it?

Hey eM,

This happens when you have a slower pc and someone hits many moveble objects. Then your pc gets overloaded for a few seconds and has to see to many Physics objects (e.g. Tyres, Bales, etc.)

Kind Regards,

Rocky
Quote from Mango Juice :LFS in DX10, or I guess a jump to DX11, would make the game so much more popular, and better.

How would updating the API make it more popular all of a sudden?

Consider this: DirectX is no more than an interface with a nice library of effects - that's it! DX11 doesn't magically make a program look any nicer or any better than DX8 if the engine doesn't use the new effects!
lets be realistic i think they have reach the max in terms workload, ive being hearing about new GTR interiors for like 2 years. now imagine they had to write shaders and such.i doubt they can push for that kinda graphical enhancement without hiring more people.
Quote from boosterfire :Why would you then trust the thing you posted, which seem nothing more than a blog?

"Wolfire Games develops innovative, independent games for Mac OS, Windows, and Linux. It was started by David Rosen in 2003 to organize his open source video game contest entries. After graduating college in 2008, he was joined by his twin brother and three friends and Wolfire Games officially dove into the independent game industry!"

They are pretty much like LFS devs.
Quote from lalathegreat :lets be realistic i think they have reach the max in terms workload, ive being hearing about new GTR interiors for like 2 years. now imagine they had to write shaders and such.i doubt they can push for that kinda graphical enhancement without hiring more people.

Ok.. so you blame the speed of development of LFS and things such as "the GTR interiors for like 2 years", while, after 4 years of playing, you are style on Demo, therefore proving that you obviously use a cracked version of LFS and you dare to come here on this forum using bandwidth and services that you haven't contributed to help in any sorts of way to ask for more contributions from the dev? You are the reason why they couldn't hire any more personnel so stop complaining.
There is no economical reason for them to just be 3, they have stated that several times before. The reason is - because they want to.

Therfor, in the end, it's slow, really slow, but that's how the devs want it. If it's quality assurance, to know they're just those 3 people I don't know, but it's their choise and we got to accept that.

I'v given up wondering why they won't let people help them (for free), but again - their choise.
Quote from The Very End :There is no economical reason for them to just be 3, they have stated that several times before. The reason is - because they want to.

Therfor, in the end, it's slow, really slow, but that's how the devs want it. If it's quality assurance, to know they're just those 3 people I don't know, but it's their choise and we got to accept that.

I'v given up wondering why they won't let people help them (for free), but again - their choise.

I feel like you let out a very slow, exhausted sigh after writing that... I don't care how long it takes, as people say the game in it's current state is great fun. I don't run into the bugs that often, it would be nice to get some new content and an improved ride but hey.

The laughable bit of this whole product is how badly the communication to the customers is. This game would be wildly successful with triple the activity, but I bet a good chunk of people just move on due to lack of customer respect. Shame really...
Quote from yeager :I feel like you let out a very slow, exhausted sigh after writing that... I don't care how long it takes, as people say the game in it's current state is great fun. I don't run into the bugs that often, it would be nice to get some new content and an improved ride but hey.

The laughable bit of this whole product is how badly the communication to the customers is. This game would be wildly successful with triple the activity, but I bet a good chunk of people just move on due to lack of customer respect. Shame really...

Hehe, I admit I did a little sigh

I love the product, I likes the developers (Well Eric is scary, and he hates me, but I'll still love him) and at most times I enjoy the community.

The problem is that there is so much I want to ask the Scawen and Co about, problem is that each time a serious post with a aqually well put question comes by, there are allways these whining hordes that drags the level of discussion down to a level where everything is just shit.. And if the developers answers in that topic it will only make things worse and raise more questions than answers, and people beeing more anoyed than before the answer.

The biggest question I want to know, or two actually.

1 : What happend to the plans of diversity? Like the Baja thing they mentioned WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in time, Rally pack - where did that go? Sure, we have classes of racing, but the diversity is lacking. I would love seeing LFS taking a go on other levels of racing.

2 : Track wise. Sure, we do know the Rockingham is on it's way, but is that the only track we are going to see? I am not going to be disrespectfull, but 5 years with some SO and BL updates is at best, slow develpment.

Again, this is no way meant as "I am a custommer, hear me roar" , or "omg, the development speed sucks, get working!".. It's just a little cry for... what's happening? LFS development has allways been slow, that is acceptable, but I won't accept that some peoples endless whining leads to a complete sillence from the developers. It should not work as that, there are many people that have well put questions about the developing, but they are allways classified as the whining cathergory, and it ends up in a flamewar.

I do a lot of things other than LFS, so I am not sitting all day long writing crap on the forum or using my remaining breath cursing the slow development, but just to hear how you devs are, how the development going, what are you plan and so on, would be very much apreciated.

Edit : Sorry my horrible english, I am a failure at language in general.
Actually, we hear more from Scavier than just a few years ago. The progress report we have here is not something Scawen used to post. I gave up long ago the idea of trying to influence the way Scavier manage the game in any way.

I don't agree with how they develop this thing, or let's say that if it was mine, I wouldn't do things the same way. LFS is not managed the conventional way. That is, trying to make money with it. The whole project stands somewhere between the normal, professionally developed project, and the amateur, home developed one.

What I understand from the way LFS is managed is that Scavier want to keep things under control. They wouldn't want the game to be developed by 200 people that ultimately lead to having a monstrous piece of programming. Yet, I don't see how that would happen with having, say, 20 or 30 more people actively working on LFS.
Quote from The Very End :<a good post that someone will probably label as moaning>

I'm with you, it's like everyone got tarred with the same brush just because a tiny vocal minority got on SCAVIER's nerves a bit. Like you, I am disappointed that LFS clearly hasn't flourished as many of us had hoped it would.

I guess most of us stick around here because LFS captured our imaginations and impressed us to an extent that is uncommon. In the face of some harsh opposition, we occasionally dare to post our disappointment that we don't think LFS has become all it promised to be in those early days. I think the crux of the matter is, if in 2003 anyone had suggested that LFS would only be what it is currently in 2010, then there would be some real dispute over that. It looked like it would be so much more, and yet none of us really know why it isn't.
Quote from sinbad :
I think the crux of the matter is, if in 2003 anyone had suggested that LFS would only be what it is currently in 2010, then there would be some real dispute over that. It looked like it would be so much more, and yet none of us really know why it isn't.

Couldn't agree more. Wasted potential.. wasted potential.
we should all accept that they want this game to be a enjoyed game that is not based around their income, but their will for racing. we should support them in this because they do not have to do this.

/thread
Quote from sinbad :I'm with you, it's like everyone got tarred with the same brush just because a tiny vocal minority got on SCAVIER's nerves a bit. Like you, I am disappointed that LFS clearly hasn't flourished as many of us had hoped it would.

I guess most of us stick around here because LFS captured our imaginations and impressed us to an extent that is uncommon. In the face of some harsh opposition, we occasionally dare to post our disappointment that we don't think LFS has become all it promised to be in those early days. I think the crux of the matter is, if in 2003 anyone had suggested that LFS would only be what it is currently in 2010, then there would be some real dispute over that. It looked like it would be so much more, and yet none of us really know why it isn't.

Totally agree... LFS by now should have 4x the following and have a lot more improvements. I mean the edge detection bugs on things like the barriers is just terrible and by now should've been fixed. It feels like poor LFS is going to remain a grass roots development when the quality ALREADY acheived is better than most commercial games. It could be SO much more.

BUT

I'm damn happy with what it is... with the time I have been work, my family and actually going out and leaving the house, LFS does the job for what I need from my gaming.
I've a feeling that this tyre update will be one of the last 'great' physics updates that Scawen will implement into LFS before having to build a completly new engine. Once he's got this out the way, coupled with the Rockingham and VWS release things will gallop forth with graphical improvements, interface, community ladders etc etc etc. I think, that this release contains a hell of a lot more than just 'improved tyre physics'. And like The Very End mentioned, we would probable get a whole lot more communication from the Devs if they didn't get flamed all the bloody time. I know I would stop talking if all I got was abuse from people not even having the decency to pay for the project. In fact I would be sorely tempted to stop working completly. What a completly ungrateful spoilt lot we are.

But, as and when this update is released, and I await it with anticipation, we will see a marked jump in updates, and information. We are going through the 'hunker down' period. What I think could be construed as the 'final' build without the final paintjob. I wouldn't be surprised that there are already complete audio and graphical updates just waiting in the wings ready for their moment.

But. These are real world people, trying to complete a 'life' choice they made in trying to bring this platform to the general public. This isn't some massive Puiblishing house releasing a half arsed, broken, affair that never gets updated. This is a Work in Progress. And we should recognise proper craftsmanship when we see it. From inception, through construction and onto completion and improvement. These guys are doing it the right way. Those neysayers really need a healthy dose of realism and to get out more.

Devs, your doing alright. And you know you are. Don't worry about the kids. At the end of the day they are not your target audience. We are, the old faithful. The ones who 'get' it. The ones with the expendable income and pay for these things ourselves with our hardearned cash. And I'm more than happy giving it to you guys for the amount of entertainment you've given me the last few years. May it long continue.

Ahmen.
im a kid and i 'get' it
It's not meant as pointing a finger and saying "all the kids"
What we mean is that often are good discussions ruined by demo racers, or whining kids that uses the "" smily too much and asks for the update.

So no, unless your whiing each time you write (and you don't) something on the forum, your not in the whining/kid group we mentioned
few ok

:
I would gladly chip in another $20 if it meant they could hire more people to work on the game, or at least get stuff done a lot quicker.


Agree?
#720 - col
Quote from The Very End :There is no economical reason for them to just be 3, they have stated that several times before. The reason is - because they want to.

Of course there is an economical reason for not hiring help. It seems pretty obvious to me.
If they were to hire more programmers and designers, that would dramatically increase their costs, so to make the project viable, they would need to sell a lot more units.
To do that, they would have to appeal to a much wider market. For that to happen, they would need licenses for real tracks and real cars (lots not a few). Of course that would need a lot more money, so even more units would need to sell to make it viable.
Now for that to happen, LFS would be turning into a more mass market product. That means competing with big budget titles, which would be a huge gamble - they would likely get wiped out, or bought out.
Additionally, there would be many legal demands from the licenses that would tie them to various rules limiting their scope for realism, design decisions, development directions etc. etc.

THose things considered, it's starting to look like a completely different product: Need for Speed? Forza? Gran Turisimo?. Sure they are all great in their own way, but I get the feeling that the people are here because LFS provides what they don't.
If the dev process changed, the product would be forced to change.
Either it would become an also-ran in the highly competitive mass market, or it would have to go with a hi cost subscription model something like iRacing (although I don't think scavier have the industry contacts, reputation and financial backing that they would need to pull that off in the way that Dave Kraemer et al are doing)

Bottom line: LFS is a business, if they change the dev process, the product will change. It might get developed faster, and have flashier graphics and better sound, but it would also lose a lot of what makes it unique and makes it work. LFS is what it is because of the small team and the approach they have taken.
The whiners are here because Scavier took that approach.
So why are they criticizing the approach ? it makes no sense!

Why are you all desperate to kill the goose that laid the golden egg?
Actually, I still disagree.

I am pretty sure (not the same as completely sure) that Scawen himself has said it were no economical reason behind beeing 3, it's just their way and how they want to develop the game.

Would be kind of great to have a statement on that one, so we for sure could know what the true reason behind that is.
I agree with you col. Generally I don't like the the complaining that some of the community openly express. However, there is a counter point that is also valid.

Many people have offered to help for free.That debunks the vicious cycle theory.

But there is also an easy counter to that which is, LFS would no longer be just their(the DEV's) project. Other people would have creative rights to LFS, even if they gave it up for free.

But anyway, something I have on my list to do when the patch/upgrade/stage is released is try my currents setups with the new physics. It will be interesting to see the change in setups to use maximum grip, or to take advantage of some kind of exploit that may still exist.
Ah yes, the post patch setup update quandry. Does the new physics updates completly change the setup approaches, or will it just need tweakings. Can't wait to find out. I can waste many a happy hour making sets.
so many sets do update
@logitekg25

That is the fun part about LFS, making or adjusting the settings to one's own driving style.
This thread is closed

[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4436 posts, closed, started )
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