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Advanced Setup Guide
2
(48 posts, started )
Quote from tristancliffe :But for tyre load sensitivity you want the LEAST load transfer possible.

Of course. So, although body roll usually only contributes something around a tenth of the weight transfer of lateral acceleration, there is still benefit to reducing this roll (assuming front and rear bars are adjusted in proportion).
I'm thinking about doing my own step-by-step guide in March. I won't really be taking a scientific approach, though (e.g. car X needs a suspension frequency of Y in front and Z in back for track A). It will be purely based upon my experience in LFS and what feels right to me in this little simulated world. That said, it should still be fairly easy to follow and will have some notes regarding different approaches required for different tracks and cars.
Quote from tristancliffe :If you increase front rebound, then the front will rebound SLOWER.

Ok, example was wrong then. But second option for increasing oversteer on exit is "decrease rear compression". If we do so, weight will travel faster to the rear and we add understeer, not oversteer.

Maybe I do not understand how damper works? Compression is when damper is compressed, so (for example) when we brake, weight travel to the front. Bigger compression setting on the front will cause less weight transfer, so bigger understeer.
Rebound is when damper is "uncompressed", so in this example adding rebound to rear damper will also cause less weight transfer and understeer.
That's probably true in a straight line scenario, but also consider that the dampers control lateral transfer as well, and in the corner exit situation the car is loaded laterally. Things become more complicated, because we don't generally want more lateral load transfer if we can help it, and a softer outer rear damper in bump will give you more. More load transfer (softer in bump) will decrease rear end grip, causing oversteer.

Keep it simple, but not too simple. And I'm probably wrong anyway!
I suppose this could be taken as a small taste of my upcoming guide.

In LFS, my experience has been that the compression dampers can be treated similarly to springs for particular parts of the corner where the change in load is high, meaning stiffer front = more understeer, stiffer rear = more oversteer. Up to a certain point, that is. Things get a little goofy at very low values. High curbs like those at FE also throw a wrench into the works. I've found lower front compression damping helps with going over them.

I generally keep rebound around critical, sometimes a little lower in the rear and a little higher in the front. I suspect my observations regarding bump compliance over FE's curbs are related to this tendency in my setups, as the combination of less bump and more rebound damping at the front gives the rear wheels more time to recover, thereby maintaining stability on exit.
I look forward to reading it Forbin.
#32 - xtm
+1

I am just getting to a stage where I feel I would like to customise the suspension and steering part of the setup for myself, but so far all my experiments are not that successfull Would love to have some guidance on that
#33 - IDUI
Quote from tristancliffe :That's probably true in a straight line scenario, but also consider that the dampers control lateral transfer as well, and in the corner exit situation the car is loaded laterally. Things become more complicated, because we don't generally want more lateral load transfer if we can help it, and a softer outer rear damper in bump will give you more. More load transfer (softer in bump) will decrease rear end grip, causing oversteer.

Keep it simple, but not too simple. And I'm probably wrong anyway!

This is answer makes sense and gives me another view on suspension. Have been only thinking in just front and rear until now.

But I still would like to know if that is the true reason for the general advice to stiffen the rear compression damping in order to achieve more rear grip on exit under throttle. As tristancliffe points out he may be wrong though he still opens a whole new realm for me.

The explanation I've seen previously on this was that a slower bump setting would allow the weight( I guess?) to transfer faster and load the tires faster, because it would not be "absorbed" by the suspension, leading to more grip under acceleration.

Could anyone, please, clarify this?
#34 - senn
Hey Bob, are you still updating this as small vehicle changes are made (roll centres etc, and new suspension models - scirocco, multilink is it?)

Or does it not require updates due to it being a broad guide to making your own setups?
I did start a re-write of this guide, which would just generally make it better all round. Essentially though, changes to the vehicles in LFS should not require changes to the guide. This is just one of many projects I started while at Uni, and now I have very little time to keep up-to-date with a full-time job. :|
#36 - senn
Quote from Bob Smith :I did start a re-write of this guide, which would just generally make it better all round. Essentially though, changes to the vehicles in LFS should not require changes to the guide. This is just one of many projects I started while at Uni, and now I have very little time to keep up-to-date with a full-time job. :|

No problems, i know what it's like when you get home from work and all you want to do is crash out for a bit

I'll have a read thru the old P2 guide anyway, i'm interested in making my own setups, as i'm finding some of the downloaded setups don't suit my driving style (lol rough as guts) And i'd like to know how to set them up properly. Cheers for the guide!
now that is a good source...kinda hard 2 understand, but thats my fault
Hello, Bob.

This is really awesome guide!!
May I translate this guide and publish on my web site?

Japanese drivers need good setup guide to get more WR
This deserves to be a sticky thread i think.
http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Advanced_Setup_Guide

I read and took time to understand every line in this guide. It helped a lot.
This guide doesn't only help a LFS player adjust he's setup, it helps any man understand a lot about race-car tuning. I advice all the new-comers to read this.
And yeah, it should be a sticky.
How does "Added voluntary mass" affect the feel on the car ?
i effects the car quite a lot, what car you referring to?

it makes the car slower as you have to accelerate brake and turn the extra weight.

moving the weight balance forward will make the car more stable and use its front tyres a bit more, and visa versa.

your setup will need to be adjusted abit, can't be very specific sorry just adjust abit so it feels good
Quote from gxgung :How does "Added voluntary mass" affect the feel on the car ?

Can you tell the difference between an empty and full tank of fuel in LFS? It should be reasonably similar to that. You wont be able to brake as late, take turns as fast or accelerate as quickly (this one might be the least obvious).
Wow, that was a stupid question. I didn't want to ask that. Sorry for the ... typo ... I think it was a typo ... a big one.
What I really wanted to ask is: "How does weight balance affect the feel on the car?"
#45 - STF
Front-heavy cars tend to understeer and rear-heavy cars to oversteer.
This explains it better.
Yet at the same time rear heavy cars can have big understeering problems especially out of corners, since the front tyres generate relatively much less grip due to less vertical load. Generally I find cars with a front-ish weight bias more pleasant and predictable to drive than rear heavy cars.
Quote from BWX232 :For the "wheel turn" and "wheel turn compensation" settings..

You could add a small section for people with Logitech Driving Force Pro's (or any other wheel with 900 degree rotation)

Also list the correct steering lock to lock of all the cars in LFS S2.. (tested myself to find out)
Cars that use 720 degrees of rotation:
XF GTI, XR GT, XR GT Turbo, RB4 GT, XFO Turbo, LX4, LX6, UF1000, UF GTR, XF GTR, FZ50, Raceabout..

Cars that use 540 degrees of rotation:
XR GTR, XFO GTR, FZ50 GTR

Cars that use 450 degrees of rotation:
Formula XR, Formula V8

Car that uses 270 degrees of rotation:
MRT5


For people with a DFP- it is possible to get completely realistic lock to lock settings in LFS easily..

One way gives you "force feedback end stops" when you get to the end of the rotation of the wheel on screen in LFS.
The other way is easier, but you don't get the force feedback end stops that the new Logitech 4.60 drivers give you.


Easy way (set and forget):
Since the largest lock to lock in any car in LFS is 720, set the DFP to 720 degrees in the DFP control panel.

Then set the "wheel turn" setting to 720 and set the "wheel turn compensation" to 1.00

this will give you linear steering in all cars, but will only give you the end stops for the wheel in cars with 720 degrees lock to lock. After that the force feedback does not respond.


The way I do it to get end stops with all cars and what seems to be more accurate force feedback:
For whatever car you are using, chose that lock to lock in the DFP control panel..
*You can easily press SHIFT + F4 to jump out of the game while in the pits, set the Logitech control panel, and jump right back in the game.. It takes about 10 seconds time and there is no need to re-calibrate.

Say you are in the FZR- set DFP CP to 540, in game set "wheel turn" setting to 540. Keep "wheel turn compensation" to 0.00.. (always leave wheel turn compensation to 0.00 when doing it this way.
That's it. Then you get true linear steering and take advantage of the FF end stops that the DFP driver gives you. I think the FF feels better too.


This might help because in the guide there is a statement that is made that does not pertain to the DFP.


With the DFP that statement is false, because of course when wheel turn compensation is set to "0.00", and the DFP is set to same rotation as the car in game... it is exactly realistic.. A beautiful thing too..


That would be a good addition, and create less confusion for people who just got a DFP... I had to figure it out on my own, buying a DFP coming from a Momo racing.. I would have appreciated a guide like that, and it would have saved me a LOT of time. :cromo:

THX A LOT MATE!!! It really helped me))
No problem, I just hope that is still accurate. I haven't played LFS in quite a while.
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Advanced Setup Guide
(48 posts, started )
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