Truly an amazing race, and yes Button proved today that he deserves the title no doubt, allthough he did get lucky on the very 1st lap with all the crashes etc.
Hm am I The only one who is a bit pissed off at Webber?? I mean his move on Raikkonen was really dirty, I thought he deserved a DT for changing his line twice and forcing Kimi off the road!

Kobayashi drove like a real racer unlike Grosjean, what a scared little boy, everybody passed him lol..

Quote from lamerr :

Hm am I The only one who is a bit pissed off at Webber?? I mean his move on Raikkonen was really dirty, I thought he deserved a DT for changing his line twice and forcing Kimi off the road!

It looked quite bad from the external camera, but from the on-board it looked like a typical first lap incident, not really anyone's fault. Real shame that it ruined Kimi's race. He could have won this race!

Quote from lamerr :

Kobayashi drove like a real racer unlike Grosjean, what a scared little boy, everybody passed him lol..

I think there was something wrong with his car. There were bits falling off it on the lap he was getting passed by everyone. But yes, he was less than impressive today!

Barrichello lends Button his plane

What a nice chap - shame he didn't win, but ohwell, Button's drive was worthy of the title!

Jenson is, on that race performance alone (and there are others that are very very good) proves he is the most deserving champion from the last three years (Kimi, Hamilton and now JB). A proper racer, gave it everything, pulled off several passes that the Hamilton-fan club would orgasm over, and clearly is a far nicer person too boot.

Wonderful race too - edge of the seat from start to finish.

Thats the point, Button had to work for his championship in the end, it wasn't handed to him by the mistakes/misfortune of others.

Yes the crashes and Ruben's puncture helped a lot, but Button still needed to make the passes he made in order to be in the right place.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Jenson is, on that race performance alone (and there are others that are very very good) proves he is the most deserving champion from the last three years.

What about Lewis Hamilton's dominant win at China last year under huge pressure in the championship?

The truth: No F1 WDC is truly 'deserved' by a driver. I've said for many a year the WCC is the true championship and the WDC is a sideshow to keep the media and fans busy and provide them with something to fanboy over.

Only when a car doesn't win the WCC but the driver still wins the WDC can you sit up and think he might have something special.

Fact is Button delivered when he needed to while Vettel/Webber/Ruben just couldn't mount a challenge. Redbull's greatest mistake was not realising they were title contenders from word go and allowing Vettel to enjoy rookie errors. Hamilton wasn't given the same leeway and hence he won the title last year.

Shut up Alan. You're such a tit.

Look at Hamilton's mistakes? Even Kobayashi (spelling? Not seen it written down yet) made less mistakes than Hamilton did last year... Lewis did some really nooby things. As did Massa. As did Kimi. Jenson... hasn't. Vettel did. Barrichello isn't quite good enough over a year (but is occasionally absolutely top-dog on his day).

The WCC is the one that even the teams don't really REALLY care about. Everyone wants the one that matters - WDC.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The WCC is the one that even the teams don't really REALLY care about.

You could not possibly be more wrong if you tried.

Well the teams at the track certainly show more enthusiasm about the WDC. However the WDC is still a win for the car and is more of a headline grabber. Button has won the championship in a car dominant for large parts of the season which won the WCC with a race to spare. Hamilton won in a car that didn't win the WCC and yet is 'less deserving'.

My point was the WCC is more of a true reflection of what the title suggests and thus more real. The WDC is wholly dependant on what car the driver is in baring a few exceptions

Most of the time Hamilton did 'nooby' things was because he was always fighting for a win or podium. Since Turkey Button has been happy to cruise round and get into the points. Both ways end up in similar point tallies anyway. How Button can be more deserving because he took less risks I dunno about that. Also Button ALSO had the freedom of a LARGE points lead. less pressure less mistakes.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

You could not possibly be more wrong if you tried.

Well i don't know how the managers, team owners, sponsors concive the two and which title is more important to them, but for the audience and general public, it's WAY more important what driver is the world champion, and i think it's a better advertising for the Mercedes and Brawn sponsors etc that their driver won, much more then if Vettel snathced the title, and Brawn won the constructors..

Quote from tristancliffe :

Jenson is, on that race performance alone

The one where he got beat buy two guys who started BEHIND him on the grid

I think the idea of looking at the second half of this season to pick out 'great' drivers from button is pointless. He's been average at the VERY best. What people should focus on is his early season form. Where when he had the car he won while everyone else was trying to understand the rule book. That's where the championship was won and 'earned' (cough cough) and not drives to another lowly points paying position.

Yes he won, he deserves AS much as anyone else but lets get real. ferrari won in 07, McLaren won in 08, and brawn won in 09

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Well i don't know how the managers, team owners, sponsors concive the two and which title is more important to them, but for the audience and general public, it's WAY more important what driver is the world champion, and i think it's a better advertising for the Mercedes and Brawn sponsors etc that their driver won, much more then if Vettel snathced the title, and Brawn won the constructors..

T'is true, if you look at the news you will see "Button wins world Driver's Championship", the constructors championship wont make the big headlines.

But I think its a bit far fetched to say that the Teams don't really care about the World Constructor's Championship, its easy to say that as an outsider, but if you're a team boss you're view would probrably be a bit different.

Don't bother with Intrepid, he just disagrees with people because hes looking for an argument.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Well i don't know how the managers, team owners, sponsors concive the two and which title is more important to them, but for the audience and general public, it's WAY more important what driver is the world champion, and i think it's a better advertising for the Mercedes and Brawn sponsors etc that their driver won, much more then if Vettel snathced the title, and Brawn won the constructors..

Don't bother with 5haz, he just disagrees with people because hes looking for an argument.

Quote from Intrepid :

Don't bother with 5haz, he just disagrees with people because hes looking for an argument.

The crucial difference is that I actually put thought into my posts before i post them, unlike you who blatantly look at the other person's post and think 'oh I'll just take the exact opposite view'. Essentially you are a troll, just a slightly more sophisticated one, but only slightly.

I have never ever seen you agree with someone, not once.

And I think the general opinion is very much against you on this forum, why don't you just go away? To put it blunty nobody likes you.

Quote from 5haz :

I have never ever seen you agree with someone, not once.

About 1 in 10000 threads i'll disagree with someone's comment. I don't make the habit of posting 'agreed ' on every comment i see! lol Don't wanna read what I write? put me on your ignore list!

Quote from Intrepid :

About 1 in 10000 threads i'll disagree with someone's comment. I don't make the habit of posting 'agreed ' on every comment i see! lol Don't wanna read what I write? put me on your ignore list!

That would be the understatement of the year.

So you disagree with people for the sake of it? Perhaps you should try and base your opinion on the actual contents of the post, might make you look less idiotic.

Quote from 5haz :

So you disagree with people for the sake of it? Perhaps you should try and base your opinion on the actual contents of the post, might make you look less idiotic.

oh ffs read what i WROTE. You said I see summit and disagree all the time. I merely suggested out of the HUGE amount of posts on this forum it is very RARE for me to reply to a post that i disagree with! You seem to not have the ability to recognise that people MAY have opposing views to your own. SHOCK HORROR PEOPLE DISAGREE OCCASIONALLY!

Quote from Intrepid :

oh ffs read what i WROTE. You said I see summit and disagree all the time. I merely suggested out of the HUGE amount of posts on this forum it is very RARE for me to reply to a post that i disagree with! You seem to not have the ability to recognise that people MAY have opposing views to your own. SHOCK HORROR PEOPLE DISAGREE OCCASIONALLY!

Haha what utter BS, the only time you show yourself is to get into conflict with somebody, which has lead me to think that you do it deliberately. You bring nothing but negativity to a thread, thats my problem with you.

You reject reality and substitute your own. Or perhaps you do it deliberately in an attempt to bring some excitement into your sad life. Go away troll.

I don't know what you guys are trying to prove but I'm just gonna make the blanket statement that you're all wrong (except Storm_Cloud).

Early in the season Jenson had the best car and was more consistent than Rubens. As soon as the other teams caught up in car performance he stopped winning cold turkey. He also had someone really experienced with setting up cars on the other side of his garage. He also had insane reliability. Vettel had a couple engines go *poof* and was still within reach of the title with two races to go. Then Lewis and Kimi became contenders and helped Jensons title bid by taking away points from Vettel, Rubens, and Webber when Jenson was incapable of winning.

If you'll note, the *only* thing that pertains to Jenson at all in that was his consistency. He wasn't particularly fast when the cars were on equal standings. Jenson won because he was gifted (by Ross Brawn) a bunch of wins early on, then he kept on picking up piddly points in the second half of the season, and he had a completely bullet-proof car (though not Grosjean-proof). 2009 WDC was handed to Jenson on a silver platter, he was simply good enough to take it (though not great like some of the other recent champions).

Also tristancliffe that's pretty hilarious that you think the teams don't care about the WCC. WCC standings dictate how much money teams get at the end of the year, of course they care about it. Ferrari and McLaren are even fighting over a paltry 3rd in the constructors standings. Ferrari has mentioned a few times on in BBC interviews that they want to keep ahead of McLaren.

Its inevitable there will be a rush of people trying to discredit the world champion and accuse him of being unworthy, people are idiotic like that, trying to act 'different' to the 'crowd' and ending up becoming a crowd themselves. :rolleyes:

Its not Button's fault that his main rivals completely failed to capitalise on his poor performances, therefore relative to his rivals, Button is the most deserving driver IMO because he failed less than his rivals.

There is more to winning a championship than outright speed, (you could say it shouldn't be like that, but thats the way it is), when are people going to realise that?

God Intrepid you don't half make a dick out of yourself sometimes, just shut up about karting, no-one gives a f*ck. You just like to point out at every oppertunity that your on the same/better level than an F1 driver. No your not so get over it.

This has been brewing for a while BTW, then in this thread he congratulates Button and still manages to say something about karting, **** me, give it a rest, i can't stand it any longer.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Look at Hamilton's mistakes? Even Kobayashi (spelling? Not seen it written down yet) made less mistakes than Hamilton did last year... Lewis did some really nooby things.

To be fair this is his third year of F1, I know you don't like Hamilton purely based on his media face, but look at Button's first two years of F1. And let's be fair Hamilton has done a good job this year in a car that has rarely been on the pace.

Also I think Hamilton has fallen foul of his own team on a few occasions. They lost him the title in his debut season when they let him stay out on a tyre that had no rubber left on it (he was a rookie, they should've made the decision for him), and they nearly threw his title away last year by giving him a strategy to drive to fifth place without considering what a safety car or a rain storm might do to the running order.

Hamilton himself looks like a pretty safe pair of hands to me. I can only think of one serious mistake he's made this season, at Monza, and weighed against the number of races where he's made up positions he shouldn't really have, it's pretty insignificant.

Anyway I think Button's been a deserving champ this season, he's made the most of races where he's got qualifying all wrong by driving like a proper racer on Sundays, and that's why he's the champ. I'm happy having a champ who's got there by overtaking people.

Quote from pik_d :

Also tristancliffe that's pretty hilarious that you think the teams don't care about the WCC. WCC standings dictate how much money teams get at the end of the year, of course they care about it.

The teams further down the order care about it, but the teams fighting for the WDC don't, so obviously it's much less important. Teams can make way more money from sponsorship opportunities arising from the publicity of winning the WDC than any financial reward for winning the WCC, TV money etc.

Quote from 5haz :

Its inevitable there will be a rush of people trying to discredit the world champion and accuse him of being unworthy, people are idiotic like that, trying to act 'different' to the 'crowd' and ending up becoming a crowd themselves.

Its not Button's fault that his main rivals completely failed to capitalise on his poor performances, therefore relative to his rivals, Button is the most deserving driver IMO because he failed less than his rivals.

There is more to winning a championship than outright speed, (you could say it shouldn't be like that, but thats the way it is), when are people going to realise that?

There are champions who win on equal footing: Lewis over Massa, probably Alonso over Schumacher (haven't watched that year), Aryton and Prost over... each other; there are champions who win simply because they are supremely dominant: Schumacher, Fangio; then there are drivers who win because they're in the right car at the right time and are just good enough to take advantage of that: Button, Hill, Villeneuve.

Button certainly deserved it the most out of anyone this season, that doesn't really make him a great champion though.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Jenson is, on that race performance alone (and there are others that are very very good) proves he is the most deserving champion from the last three years (Kimi, Hamilton and now JB). A proper racer, gave it everything, pulled off several passes that the Hamilton-fan club would orgasm over, and clearly is a far nicer person too boot.

Wonderful race too - edge of the seat from start to finish.

Yet Hamilton started 4 postions behind button and got 2 positions higher in the same race.

but I will agree with you, but last 3 years haven't been that special.