Greetings Jakg and other PC hardware gurus.

Looking to upgrade said video card, need some proper advice on what would be worth it. Not looking to spend $600 or anything though either. I did read breifly somewhere that the GTX260 (Core 16, whatever the hell that means) would be a significant upgrade for a mid range price. Is that correct or has that card been succeeded already?

Thanks for your help!

The 4850 and 4870 are getting pretty good reviews, as is the 4770 and the 4890 - what sort of performance were you looking for?

Well if you don't need the 8800 anymore my 9800 needs a friend

Quote from Jakg :

The 4850 and 4870 are getting pretty good reviews, as is the 4770 and the 4890 - what sort of performance were you looking for?

I am thinking something in the range of that 260 Core 216. Not interested in the ATi at the moment; I had a 4850 at one point and was pretty disappointed. Plus I'm not interested in switching out drivers and what not (yeah lazy I know).

I've pretty much narrowed it down to either the GTX260 or GTX275. But the 275 is $100 more, for what I am guessing is a fairly nominal improvement over the 260. The 260 is $229CAD vs $319 for the 275. Clocks are a bit higher on the 275 and it has 240 stream processors instead of ... 219 or something? Both are 896mb versions.

Do you have any idea what I should expect going from either card?

System is a socket AM2 6400+ (3.2GHz) w/ 4GB DDR2.

I run a 22" at 1680x1050, but often using component output at 1080 to the TV (never have decided if that actually affects my framerate or not).

Cheers

Quote from Luke.S :

Well if you don't need the 8800 anymore my 9800 needs a friend

I suspect the freight would be prohibitive, otherwise $50cad and it's yours

Is the graphics card holding you back, or might it be the CPU?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I am thinking something in the range of that 260 Core 216. Not interested in the ATi at the moment; I had a 4850 at one point and was pretty disappointed. Plus I'm not interested in switching out drivers and what not (yeah lazy I know).

I've pretty much narrowed it down to either the GTX260 or GTX275. But the 275 is $100 more, for what I am guessing is a fairly nominal improvement over the 260. The 260 is $229CAD vs $319 for the 275. Clocks are a bit higher on the 275 and it has 240 stream processors instead of ... 219 or something? Both are 896mb versions.

Do you have any idea what I should expect going from either card?

System is a socket AM2 6400+ (3.2GHz) w/ 4GB DDR2.

I run a 22" at 1680x1050, but often using component output at 1080 to the TV (never have decided if that actually affects my framerate or not).

Cheers





I suspect the freight would be prohibitive, otherwise $50cad and it's yours

Would probably cost more than the card did when it was new.

I would come get it my self :P but i don't have a passport.

Quote from Jakg :

Is the graphics card holding you back, or might it be the CPU?

That's what you're supposed to tell me!

There wasn't an AM2 chip made that was faster, it seems decent...

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

That's what you're supposed to tell me!

There wasn't an AM2 chip made that was faster, it seems decent...

What are you using it for?

Just because it's the fastest AM2 chip doesn't mean it's the best full stop - The Proton Satria GTI puts out a mindblowing 130 (!) HP, but a Civic Type R probably puts out way more than that :P

Quote from Jakg :

What are you using it for?

Just because it's the fastest AM2 chip doesn't mean it's the best full stop - The Proton Satria GTI puts out a mindblowing 130 (!) HP, but a Civic Type R probably puts out way more than that :P

I see your point.

I just want to play Crysis, World of Warcraft and Age of Conan. And iRacing.

I want more fps in all of the above.

I know the CPU is a tad behind by todays standards, but it's not quite a piece of shit just yet. I think I might've bought it a year ago actually.

Ive got an 8800 GTS 512MB and i get really descent frames on most games on high or max settings. I get around 300fps on LFS with not many cars and around 120 with a grid of 24. But i have got a quad core processor. Im sure if i didnt have that i'd get less fps than i do atm.

Quote from trebor901 :

Ive got an 8800 GTS 512MB and i get really descent frames on most games on high or max settings. I get around 300fps on LFS with not many cars and around 120 with a grid of 24. But i have got a quad core processor. Im sure if i didnt have that i'd get less fps than i do atm.

Yeah same in LFS for me. I get good frames in most things at high or max, but I can't really quite run Crysis at max - I have everything set to the "high" setting with a few on max and it's not too bad, but could be better for sure.

So your saying if you had a dual core, instead of a quad core, you'd get a lower FPS in a single threaded game?

I think you should probably leave the technical advice section...

Although in his defence both WoW and AoC have made accomodations to utilize multiple cores. Not sure about other games at large, my understanding is that it's still not possible to take full advantage. (Mm, I think FSX did a patch for it too IIRC)

For Crysis it *should* be your GPU limiting performance - but to check if it is or not then just leave the performance tab open in Task Manager while you game - if the CPU tops out frequently, then it's your CPU being the issue - if not, then it's not.

EDIT - He was talking about LFS specifically.

Ah, cool I never thought of trying that (checking the CPU usage). I guess I would assume it works that way?

Cheers for that info.

Something is the slowest part of your PC.

If everything else is "normal" (i.e. no shit HDD, low memory etc), and your CPU usage is 100% all the time - it's the limit. If it's not at 100%, and the other components don't see to be the problem then surely the graphics card must be the limit...

Any idea why my screen is garbled when I first boot?

*sigh*

Why do problems always happen when I try to upgrade things :doh:

I can sort of see my boot screen but it has wierd lines and shit and doesn't take up the whole screen. Haven't left it to see what happens, so the old card is in right now.

That is usualy caused by Three things.

Either the card wasn't seated properly, although this ususaly just causes a no-post situation.

Or the Card is defective and will probably do odd things like that all the time.

Or the last one which is something in your PC doesn't like the new card, I had that problem with an old Compaq, but ususaly custom built computers don't run into this problem often.

I'd say exchange the card for an identical one and see what happens, if it still does the same thing, tear down the computer and put it back together one part at a time untill something goes wrong. Then you will know what is wrong.

this might be of interest to you
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/ ... 0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

it has to be said since the gf8 came out all following cards havent improved by an impressive amount
so while your card certainly isnt the fastest i doubt upgrading it would give improve things by a degree thats even remotely appropriate for the price of that upgrade

so that leaves us with your cpu which isnt exactly fast compared to the core 2 architecture

Quote from DragonCommando :

That is usualy caused by Three things.

Either the card wasn't seated properly, although this ususaly just causes a no-post situation.

Or the Card is defective and will probably do odd things like that all the time.

Or the last one which is something in your PC doesn't like the new card, I had that problem with an old Compaq, but ususaly custom built computers don't run into this problem often.

I'd say exchange the card for an identical one and see what happens, if it still does the same thing, tear down the computer and put it back together one part at a time untill something goes wrong. Then you will know what is wrong.

Yeah I left a post in the EVGA forums, we'll see what happens - I'm wondering if I should upgrade the BIOS as a new one just came out this year for my board. I put the card back in (GTX260 Core216) last night, and the system does (did) actually boot up fine, just as some odd resolution (possibly 640x480 or 800x600) and with odd lines and shit. But I could actually use it no problem. Once it was booted, Vista decided to install drivers, as it di recognize the card as a GTX260. When it rebooted however, once the windows loading screen was up for a few minutes it would just give me a BSOD and reboot.... So whatever Vista installed is interacting with the base issue making it so the machine won't boot anymore.

I'm thinking either bad card or yet another fecking mobo incompatibility, pending a BIOS upgrade. But that's bullshit having to mess with the BIOS imo.

Quote from Shotglass :

this might be of interest to you
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/ ... 0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

it has to be said since the gf8 came out all following cards havent improved by an impressive amount
so while your card certainly isnt the fastest i doubt upgrading it would give improve things by a degree thats even remotely appropriate for the price of that upgrade

so that leaves us with your cpu which isnt exactly fast compared to the core 2 architecture

I will check out that link in a few mins here, thanks Shotty.

So the Core 2 architecture would blow away my AMD Windsor?

Edit: EVGA guy says it could be not enough power.... how the hell could it not have enough power in 2D mode? I would suspect that if my PS was going to give out on it that it would happen in 3D mode right?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I'm thinking either bad card or yet another fecking mobo incompatibility, pending a BIOS upgrade. But that's bullshit having to mess with the BIOS imo.

I got an HD 3850 recently and had to edit the bios myself and re-flash it to make the fan controler work properly because the first revision bios has a fan control bug. but thats a long story.

Its not realy uncommon to have to upgrade a bios to get things to work.

I also had to flash my mobo bios to get my Radeon 9000 to work when I got it years ago.

If a bios update is all that is needed, its not that bad. Just make sure not to use a windows based flasher, a bootable floppy with a dos based flashing app is the safest way to go about it.

And as for not enough power, It is a small possibility, but not likely. If you have at least a 500w power supply with at least a 70% efficiency rating, and around 30amps on the 12volt rail(s) you should be good to go.

Ok so it was the card. I exchanged it for a new one and it works like a charm.

Reasonable improvement indeed, but I get the feeling that the card has a hell of a lot of headroom with my CPU being archaic. The fan barely spools up at all, and my CPU usage is pinned on 100% in Age of Conan for example.

Thus, my next question:
Is an E8500 still great bang for the buck? Gaming performance is my biggest concern, so I'm not needing 4 cores from my understanding.

It also appears that the first gen Core2s whooped my AthlonX2 6400+ bad enough, so the 2nd gen ones like the E8500 should smash it's face in quite brutally - correct?

I did check that link you sent as well Shot, thanks.
Interesting stuff there.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

It also appears that the first gen Core2s whooped my AthlonX2 6400+ bad enough, so the 2nd gen ones like the E8500 should smash it's face in quite brutally - correct?

iirc the penryn is about 0-5% quicker clock for clock than the original core2 (whatever that was called)

since your system is hardly old enough for you to have an accute necessity to upgrade may i suggest you wait a few weeks/months?
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3570

Hm, will take a more in depth look at that after I stuff my face.

Problem is I have an inherant need to run games at max settings; it causes me psychological greif if I have to turn things down.

I think the graphics card is quite good now, and it's an improvement but I'm still not happy with the overall performance yet. I have to turn off "screenspace ambient occlusion" whatever the hell that means in Age of Conan, and with it on it quite drastically change the look of the game. I can only run around 20FPS +/- 5 with it on, which pisses me off.

I may muster some patience up though. I've got a week to myself in mid July, and will need to be enjoying a new platform by then however. Kinda tempted to just drop the dough for an i7 and not be having this conversation again next year. I should've listened to you last year and got the e8500 then.

edit: Keep in mind I don't give a hoot about encoding things, multitasking or anything other than gaming in terms of performance. Everything else works fine as far as I am concerned.

me personally, pop the highest duel core amd have to offer. the 7750 is going for stupidly low prices right now. you can pick one up over here (delivered) for less than £50. should put you over until the phenom3's come down in price.

intels are good chips but you will need a new board for that chip which only adds to the overall price for the upgrade. we all know that when trying to stick to a budget, you don't want to spend extra if you don't need to.