The online racing simulator
NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2766 posts, started )
Quote from cargame.nl :How can you buy this junk?

Installing costed far more time than testing. This doesn't deserve 1.0 status, let alone 1.1.

Interface is bbadd.. No proper hosting capabilities (kick/ban), crappy damage (and sounds). Horrible graphics also. Might be the settings dunno.. Crappy interface again.

Sorry

Italians need to put more work into it.

Congrats. You score a 90% fail rating. (I'll give you the 'no kick/ban'. The rest was a miserable effort)
Quote from cargame.nl :Italians need to put more work into it.

You need to put more work into it, once its set up properly its a blast. You've probrably become used to LFS which is unusual in that it is so quick and easy to set up.
OK...

So where is the option to adjust mip bias? Graphics look waaayyy over sharpened and ugly.

How can I spectate a race?

Where is the mini map to show locations of other drivers?

Where are other drivers anyway? If I look at online demo hosts everything is just completely empty.

Windowed version is not really a windowed version.

They ask 20 Euro's for a full version, of course I compare to LFS.

What would you expect?
...
Quote from cargame.nl :So where is the option to adjust mip bias? Graphics look waaayyy over sharpened and ugly.

Create a profile from your graphics card's CP. I think both nV and ATi have this.

Quote :How can I spectate a race?

Cycle cars and views while in garage/pit box.

Quote :Where is the mini map to show locations of other drivers?

Subjective, moot.

Quote :Windowed version is not really a windowed version.

Why would you want to run it in a window over full-screen?

The menus and UI are bad.
Quote from cargame.nl :How can you buy this junk?

Paypal or CC.



Because of: how it drives, the FFB; tracks are on average more interesting than LFS, not as flat, no LFS's chicanes everywhere syndrome, free track editor. Limited sets. Open diff and FWD cars are drivable.

There are no minimaps because guess what? there are no HUDs IRL. iRacing doesn't a minimap either. LFS can do that too using Shift-F.

The graphics IMO are not bad at all. Yes, they could be better, but the same can be said about LFS (and I did it just a couple days ago). Models are better than LFS's more often than not.

Damage system sucks you say? in LFS you can stamp a car into a wall at 150 kph and then drive away with nary a scratch. That's arcade-ish.

Quote from cargame.nl :Installing costed far more time than testing.

Installing from scratch only takes a few minutes here, and I'm certainly not running current gen hardware.

It's understood the thing has more than its fair share of rough edges, but it seems you were too busy whining to notice the important things.
Quote from NightShift :There are no minimaps because guess what? there are no HUDs IRL.

Though, in many serie there's crew that can communicate at least some of info provided via HUDs to the driver.

Quote :Damage system sucks you say? in LFS you can stamp a car into a wall at 150 kph and then drive away with nary a scratch. That's arcade-ish.

Scavierge has made it clear that the damage model is known to be incomplete. In fact, I understood the current implementation was always intended to be more a placeholder than anything else. Can the same be said about nKp's damage model (legit question, no sarcasm)?
Quote from NotAnIllusion :Though, in many serie there's crew that can communicate at least some of info provided via HUDs to the driver.

The minimap is not one of those. For the rest, nKP has the pitboard, AIM on the single seaters and that little status bar on the 500 (I would have preferred something AIM-like but it's inobtrusive enough)

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Scavierge has made it clear that the damage model is known to be incomplete.

Hey that's not fair. I could have used the LFSforum bingo arguments too

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Can the same be said about nKp's damage model (legit question, no sarcasm)?

No idea do you have specific issues with the current damage model?
Quote from NightShift :The minimap is not one of those.

The minimap tells the positions of vehicles on the track. The team communicates the positions of relevant cars to the driver (F1, V8s, NASCAR etc.). I think it's comparable, even if the amount and form of delivery is different.

Quote :Hey that's not fair. I could have used the LFSforum bingo arguments too

You lost me.

Quote :No idea do you have specific issues with the current damage model?

With nKp's, not exactly. I haven't driven enough to have an objective opinion. LFS, there are many issues w.r.t. complexity and accuracy, but I never expected the current damage model to deliver a deep and realistic representation in the first place. I did expect this from nKp, especially as v1.0 and above I consider "release" quality.
Minimap and able to spectate are absolutely necessary to admin a race.

If a minimap isn't realistic then at least show it when someone spectates.

But you cannot spectate at all, so thats a bit of a problem.

6 people are racing right now. On two out of four servers (one of those servers I just created myself).

People don't seem that interested?

Anyone a screenshot of a licensed server listing? Just curious.


.
Quote from cargame.nl :

But you cannot spectate at all, so thats a bit of a problem.

How many times do you need to be told? F2/F3 and num +/- to cycle through cars.


As for pickup racing...no , there isn't much and there never has been. netKar pro multiplayer is nearly 100% league based (of which there are many)

Never have I heard a league admin say.."ohh, this is impossible without a mini map"


Anyway, you're more interested in the fluff and not the substance, so this sim really isn't for you. netKar is all a about the physics, FFB and and overall driving experience, which is right up there with iRacing(and surpasses it in many aspects.)

.....and it's only 20 Euros ffs. I'd pay that just to hotlap the F2000.
Quote from NotAnIllusion :I think it's comparable, even if the amount and form of delivery is different.

What's the use of knowing the exact position of the car on the track, squinting eyes at a minimap when we should be busy driving?

Deltas are enough for me, both in nKP and iRacing, and I try to ignore them as much as possible (in iR) as it's way too easy to end up paying more attention to the numbers rather than the race.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :You lost me.

That "LFS is incomplete" is one of those moot points/community mantras that have been used to justify mostly anything, as such it has been satirized in the LFSforum bingo game. (Much like the classic line "write your own sim then" which could have been easily spent in this discussion. But I prefer constructive discussion for the most part whenever feasible.)

Arguably, every sim is only partially complete in most of its parts. For the issue at stake, rFactor has more comprehensive damage modeling than nKp or iRacing, and all of them are better than LFS.

So it's OK to discuss how nKP could learn from rFactor, whereas complaining about nKP damage model while lauding LFS is the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :I never expected the current damage model to deliver a deep and realistic representation in the first place. I did expect this from nKp, especially as v1.0 and above I consider "release" quality.

It follows that if nKP was called 0.5 ALPHA you wouldn't argue about its (relatively superior) damage model, but if LFS was called 1.1 you wouldn't defend what you called a "placeholder" system.

As I see it, they can call whatever they want, the current products are what they are, and I fail to see the significance of a label that's only meant for revision tracking

Quote from cargame.nl :Minimap and able to spectate are absolutely necessary to admin a race.

Can you please explain to me why the minimap is _absolutely_ _necessary_ for you to admin a race?
Quote from The Moose :How many times do you need to be told? F2/F3 and num +/- to cycle through cars.

Sorry, indeed, its possible.

Quote from The Moose :
As for pickup racing...no , there isn't much and there never has been.

Then it has a limited future.

I see a solution to solve the ban problem but the community / general interest is way to low to set something up.

Quote from The Moose :.....and it's only 20 Euros ffs. I'd pay that just to hotlap the F2000.

Lolz, there are LFS'ers demo'ing three years now because they won't or can't pay those 24 pounds.

And its not about the 20 Euro's.. It's what you get in comparison to LFS.
Quote from NightShift :Can you please explain to me why the minimap is _absolutely_ _necessary_ for you to admin a race?

The little arrows in LFS, its marvelous to be able to quickly switch to a developing incident just by watching a bunch of arrows.

It's also handy to be able to determine where you exactly 'tuned in' in a race.

Fast and easy to select the tail or head of a race.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Why would you want to run it in a window over full-screen?

The menus and UI are bad.

Because I work at home?

This is 2010. Not 1998 where one program eats up all your screen space.

A have a lot of programs running on the same time and I want to view at least my taskbar 100% of the time. If I deselect "full screen" I expect a window, not the behavior it currently does.
<plonk>
Quote from NightShift :What's the use of knowing the exact position of the car on the track, squinting eyes at a minimap when we should be busy driving?

Well, exiting pits, getting decent space in quali, spotting crashes for example. When I see a yellow flag, I glance at the map and see how many cars were involved and possibly who they are.

Quote :Deltas are enough for me, both in nKP and iRacing, and I try to ignore them as much as possible (in iR) as it's way too easy to end up paying more attention to the numbers rather than the race.

I wasn't referring to time-gaps with the minimap, there's more going on at the track than the gaps to the car ahead and behind (for me anyway). Deltas shouldn't be displayed on screen either any more than a minimap. Both can be provided by the team, and neither is on a HUD IRL.

Quote :if LFS was called 1.1 you wouldn't defend what you called a "placeholder" system.

When LFS S2 gets the beta tag, I expect it to have an improved (more depth, accuracy, realism) damage model because it's one of the things listed as requiring work before LFS can lose the alpha tag. I also expect the damage model to be rough around the edges in beta, and working properly when it goes gold (release). If this doesn't happen, I will surely express my displeasure, and offer no justification because the impression I have is that the model will no longer be a "placeholder".

I don't know what the case is with nKp's, but I haven't read anywhere that it isn't supposed to be _the_ working damage model which would only require tweaking. If there's a statement saying otherwise, then I'm fine with nKp's damage model, too.

Quote :As I see it, they can call whatever they want, the current products are what they are, and I fail to see the significance of a label that's only meant for revision tracking

I guess we see the meaning of these labels differently. Alpha, beta and release read to me as more than a build number.

[edit]
Quote from cargame.nl :Because I work at home?

This is 2010. Not 1998 where one program eats up all your screen space.

A have a lot of programs running on the same time and I want to view at least my taskbar 100% of the time. If I deselect "full screen" I expect a window, not the behavior it currently does

I don't know anything about nKp's dedi server but here's the thing. If you're admining, use the dedi. If you're racing, race in FS. If you're idling between events, alt-tab. If it so happens that also the dedi is in-game and FS only, then that obviously is a concern.
Quote from cargame.nl :Sorry, indeed, its possible.



Then it has a limited future.

I see a solution to solve the ban problem but the community / general interest is way to low to set something up.



Lolz, there are LFS'ers demo'ing three years now because they won't or can't pay those 24 pounds.

And its not about the 20 Euro's.. It's what you get in comparison to LFS.

Yeah, LFS is a more complete package(for more money), but it's not superior in everything. I really like it but right now there are areas where other sims are better. LFS' tyre physics has hardly changed over the last 4 years, there were some tweaks but that's all.
I had too many problems with previous version of NK Pro but the latest version runs great on my pretty slow computer and it has great physics and FFB too and that's important for me.
I don't know how much time you spent playing LFS but after a few years the little things will start to bother you more and more and you'll look at other sims too.
Quote from cargame.nl :
Then it has a limited future.

It's managed 4 years with no problem and only continues to grow.


Quote from cargame.nl :And its not about the 20 Euro's.. It's what you get in comparison to LFS.

Indeed. you get a lot less content and a lot more simulation than LFS. I'll take quality over quantity any day.
Quote from NotAnIllusion :I don't know anything about nKp's dedi server but here's the thing. If you're admining, use the dedi. If you're racing, race in FS.

The dedi is some sort of DOS box. Not really DOS because it requires dll's but it has no GUI.

And thats good. Dedicated hosting you do at data centers not @home

Quote from _--NZ--_[HUN] :I don't know how much time you spent playing LFS but after a few years

Years? Lol... There are not many games which have such a long lifespan for the average gamer. Only real good games can manage to do that. I seriously doubt NetKar is able to do that on the current level.

I personally got interested because it's just one of the few racesims where you can actually host something yourself but in my eyes it's far from finished.

I play not much, I like to drive a few laps once in a while but I'm more an organizer / admin person.
Quote from NotAnIllusion :Well, exiting pits, getting decent space in quali, spotting crashes for example. When I see a yellow flag, I glance at the map and see how many cars were involved and possibly who they are.

You never know who's in the pitlane and who's not anyway, and running into a yellow flag the most effective strategy is to keep eyes on the track and slow down.

I can't honestly say I have more problems or accidents in sims without a minimap. Most likely the opposite; and it's different to have someone tell you what's happening and having to figure out something from a map, that's why these days most people rely GPS receivers instead

Quote from NotAnIllusion : Deltas shouldn't be displayed on screen either any more than a minimap. Both can be provided by the team, and neither is on a HUD IRL.

In fact this information is provided through the pitboard in nKP.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :but I haven't read anywhere that it isn't supposed to be _the_ working damage model which would only require tweaking. If there's a statement saying otherwise, then I'm fine with nKp's damage model, too.

I find a bit surprising that you're clinging on to those old statements, especially when Scawen's been refraining as much as possible from making any more new ones.

When detachable parts were announced (2007 IIRC), Scawen expected them to be introduced relatively soon and that clearly hasn't happened. For all we know the necessary changes in the game plan may have relegated an improved damage model to the bottom of the list.

In reality, we are stuck with what has been released.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :I guess we see the meaning of these labels differently. Alpha, beta and release read to me as more than a build number.

That was not the point: it's under everybody's eyes that in spite of version numbers and tags, LFS is overall far more polished than nKP. The damage model for the time being is not subpar in nKP, while it is in LFS: it's plain unfair and completely pointless to compare LFS and nKP and criticize the latter for it (which is what cargame did and what I replied to)

Plus the current damage model in LFS has promoted bad driving habits for years on end, and this won't disappear overnight with just a tag change on the LFS executable.
Quote from NightShift :You never know who's in the pitlane and who's not

I disagree When I watch a pitstop happening in V8s, the team is in constant communication with the driver, who and where other drivers on the pitlane (and track) are. This information may not be available at club level, but it is used in RL serie. One should also be watching the "x has entered pits" messages that provide the info.

Quote :running into a yellow flag the most effective strategy is to keep eyes on the track and slow down.

Imo there's a big difference between one spinning backmarker and 2+ people who you're racing. What's the point in slowing down to a crawl if you can see that the flag was caused by a car that's in a sandtrap, a million miles away from the track? Of course you slow down a bit, but it's nowhere near the same as expecting to avoid a 3 car pileup in the middle of the road.

Also, I can't find the post where cargame.nl compared nKp's damage model with LFS', only the one where he criticised it without comparison (which is a valid observation, imo).
Quote from NotAnIllusion :I disagree

Don't tell me BTW I was talking about the minimap, which offers no visual cue to tell whether a car's in the pitlane or the track. If the pit crew can't tell that IRL then they're blind

Quote from NotAnIllusion : What's the point in slowing down to a crawl if you can see that the flag was caused by a car that's in a sandtrap,

If you can see what's happening then you don't need a minimap. You're only interested in figuring things out in advance when you can't see and then from the minimap you won't be able to tell the cars are outside or in the very middle of the track.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :to avoid a 3 car pileup in the middle of the road.

Not much you can do about that either, except fetch some daisies on yyour way out, and that's not something that can be reliably done at full speed on many tracks (South City makes for a great example here)

Quote from NotAnIllusion :I can't find the post where cargame.nl compared nKp's damage model with LFS', only the one where he criticised it without comparison (which is a valid observation, imo).

To say it's a valid observation is an overstatement per se, but anyway it's pretty much obvious he's comparing the two. If you still have doubts that's where he said:

Quote from cargame.nl :They ask 20 Euro's for a full version, of course I compare to LFS.

Quote from NightShift :Don't tell me BTW I was talking about the minimap, which offers no visual cue to tell whether a car's in the pitlane or the track. If the pit crew can't tell that IRL then they're blind

From the minimap it's hard to tell, yeah.

Quote :You're only interested in figuring things out in advance when you can't see and then from the minimap you won't be able to tell the cars are outside or in the very middle of the track.

In South City you can't, but Westhill and Aston have enough run-off to spot the difference, in non-marginal cases.

Quote :To say it's a valid observation is an overstatement per se, but anyway it's pretty much obvious he's comparing the two. If you still have doubts that's where he said:

Well it's valid, even if subjective and perhaps even inaccurate With no actual illustration of a comparison of damage models, it sounds like it's a broad overall one, instead of one specific thing. Besides, if one were to think the damage models in nKp and LFS both were bad, it'd be a valid comparison, though not a justification for being similarly priced (with S1..). /ramble
Quote from cargame.nl :Years? Lol... There are not many games which have such a long lifespan for the average gamer. Only real good games can manage to do that.

You seem to be mistaking serious simracers with gamers. They are two completely and utterly different types of people. Hell, just look at how long some of the people here have been playing LFS! nKp especially is aimed at people who want a serious racesim with as little arcade features as possible. And those kind of people aren't into simracing "to do just a few laps", they are in it for the long run. Those types of people also aren't very interested in pickup racing with kiddies, they want decent organized racing leagues, and there's plenty of those.

Quote from cargame.nl :I seriously doubt NetKar is able to do that on the current level.

Like Moose said a couple posts back, it has been doing fine for over 4 years and continues to grow. It's not like it's a new sim on the market, it's been around a while. And the reason it's still around is because, quite simply, it's probably the best and most accurate racesim on the market today as far as single seaters are concerned.

EDIT: and no, I'm not an nKp fan myself, but I don't have my head stuck up my own ass, either; I can tell when something is good.
i tried nkpro 1.1 yesterday after a long time (since 1.03) ... (i upgrade my pc to c2duo and ati 4850), i liked the feeling very much so i buy it the physics feels nice ,it was a surprise for me, i'll play it till lfs gets an update...
just a question it does not have a handbrake??
I'll wait for version 1.2 or better.

It's not ready for the big work. Server management is not good enough. Period.

NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2766 posts, started )
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