The online racing simulator
NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2766 posts, started )
Quote from mclarenmatt :Make that 3 Comment's :P

I gave it a thumb's up!

I could not resist giving him comment

Surely if he can't find motivation of making few small fixes to nkp, then he has abandoned it, but why he just don't get grip of himself and admit that, make a statement and move on from there?

My impression is that he is bit like those emo teens, I thought earlier (over year ago) that he just had trouble with PR and bit of motivation troubles, but clearly it is much more that there is wrong.

Really lame person as clearly can't come up and clear situation, I think some could say he is a wimp.
Apparently according to Kunos, netbike is in other words a kind of beta of the 1.0.3 patch.

He's using it for idea's etc apparently.

Interesting......
Quote from mclarenmatt :Apparently according to Kunos, netbike is in other words a kind of beta of the 1.0.3 patch.

He's using it for idea's etc apparently.

Interesting......

Hmm, I have been listening that what he says for two years now I think. Maybe he actually believes that himself, but surely we know that creating completely new physics, models and such is not helping to get few show stopping bugs to be fixed.

Maybe he actually thinks that nkpro will be fixed by upgrades to physics engine instead of making few problems sorted out, then he would completely ignore fact that he actually makes it more possible to new bugs replace old ones.

But maybe it is just that we don't understand what it is like to make program, we have seen similar to happen with other projects, those however are progressing.

However making new features or developing working features instead of fixing major issue that degrades level of enjoyment is always going to give end user impression that developer is not doing anything to fix damn thing.

We have seen this with collision issues of LFS too, there has been quite lot of noise from that issue and also after latest patch quite strong opinions voiced from it.

Perhaps some temporarily fix would be better in some things than getting it fixed from roots level to top, that would give people impression of issue being worked on and tame effect down a bit, maybe it would had kept nkpro bit more alive also.

I think it is partly fault of programmers, even how good they are, perhaps they can't look subject from such corner that would help them to see what gives best in terms of PR ?
"Developing new things is much easier than fix what's broken."

good thing hes not taking the easy rout then and thowing all hes got into bugfixing

Quote from AndroidXP :Hey hey, netBike is at least fun to mess around with :shhh:

in the same way that outrun2 is fun
id be surprised if netbike models gyro forces at all from what ive seen so far
Quote from JTbo :But maybe it is just that we don't understand what it is like to make program, we have seen similar to happen with other projects, those however are progressing.

Being a programmer myself I can certainly sympathise with the situation Kunos is in at the moment. I too share that inability to focus on the important (but boring) stuff when it comes to my own creations. (It's somehow easier at work where the man with the whip keeps you working until bugs are squashed ) It's always much more tempting to work on some cool new feature instead of tracing down that rare show-stopper on some platform I don't even have access to myself. I can't count how many half-assed projects I've started and then given up on once they got boring.

BUT, that is also why I would never offer any of my stuff up for sale like Kunos has. I know I wouldn't be able to maintain it to the quality expected by most people, so I just don't do it. I don't need the grief. So while I sympathise with the situation he's in, he gets no sympathy for being in it in the first place.

How Scawen does it I have no idea, and that is frankly what impresses me most about the way he works.
Even rTracktor models gyro forces, would be silly if it would not do that, but anything is possible.
Quote from wien :
How Scawen does it I have no idea, and that is frankly what impresses me most about the way he works.

He has missus and maybe she has the control of the whip
Quote from Shotglass :in the same way that outrun2 is fun
id be surprised if netbike models gyro forces at all from what ive seen so far

I doubt modelling gyro forces would have any meaningful impact considering how arcade the current physics are. But it's fun messing around with it as a bike game, not a bike simulator.
well to be honest with you i was turned off already when i read that you steer by "pressing down on the handlebar and pedals" ... right
then some more when i couldnt get the options menu to work (still doesnt)
and some more when i found out that all my attempts at modifying the controller.ini were in vain because its actually the mcontroller.ini that stores all the information

all in all its comforting to know that some things never change
Quote from Shotglass : and some more when i found out that all my attempts at modifying the controller.ini were in vain because its actually the mcontroller.ini that stores all the information

thank you that gave me some ideas, i can finally play it now. had net 2.0 and the visual runtimes installed but all i got was an error when trying to get into the options. starting the game didn't work also it just crashed.

so here the files i edited to make it run, just in case there are still people like me wanting to try it and never got it to work.

go to \netbike\cfg

mcontrols.ini (like shotglass already told its where you store your controls)

nk3d.ini (that seemed to be the important one, i still cant get into the options but now i can start the game without crashing it just copy the nk3d.ini from your netkar pro cfg folder and tadaaa)
Quote from Shotglass :well to be honest with you i was turned off already when i read that you steer by "pressing down on the handlebar and pedals" ... right

Yeah, that line was something that made me almost to forget the whole app... physically it is all wrong but to my surprise it is quite natural how you "steer" the bike. After all, you are steering with a wheel and pedals which is totally different than what you use in real life. Btw. did you try the bike mod in LFS? You remember how hard it was to actually steer the bike, to countersteer into corners to get the bike to lean etc..? It was harder than riding a bike in real life imho because it wasn't natural in any way and you had to invert and filter what your insticts were saying and then turn the wheel to the other direction to go were you wanted.

There is a lot of something that tells me that the current version of nbike is heavily aided with all kinds of steering/weight balance/brake/throttle aids. No tank slappers or high siders what so ever no matter how hard you push, no fear of overshooting with the brakes or getting too hard on throttle etc.. Kinda like android said (?) that there is really no feeling that you are hanging onto a bike.

But still it is actually quite fun
I suck so bad at it, I crash like.. T1, then T2, then the next one, ad infinium.
Quote from Gabkicks :maybe he felt bad about he small filesize, so he made it larger.

There are loads of files that should not be there. Surprized? Not really...
Quote from Hyperactive :Btw. did you try the bike mod in LFS?

nope only the bike cartype
if you can point me in the direction of a true bikemod (like in those videos a few years ago) feel free to do so id love to give it a try

Quote :You remember how hard it was to actually steer the bike, to countersteer into corners to get the bike to lean etc..? It was harder than riding a bike in real life imho because it wasn't natural in any way and you had to invert and filter what your insticts were saying and then turn the wheel to the other direction to go were you wanted.

well if i wanted to be a fanboy id say that lfs not having a bike in a public version yet with the issues you experienced is exactly that sort of thring why nkp is the way it is and lfs isnt
but either way driving like that feels very unnatural to me and reminds me a lot of a rc bike i own which is just as bad and sluggish

Quote :But still it is actually quite fun

the bit which i enjoy the most is that it only took me 10 seconds of driving to get the bike in one of the infamous 90° nkp doriftos
It tookyou that long?

T1...
Well, who says the tyres are acting as such? It's very likely that just the car bodies are using those rigid body dynamics. Same goes for LFS by the way, I don't think it has gyro forces modelled either.
From what we saw in the car-bike mod and the subsequent thread about it I think the conclusion was that it didn't. The modder said it was difficult to control in a straight line at speed: which can be either attributed to lack of gyro forces or to not having a positive caster angle.
Quote from AndroidXP :Well, who says the tyres are acting as such? It's very likely that just the car bodies are using those rigid body dynamics. Same goes for LFS by the way, I don't think it has gyro forces modelled either.

In LFS the value of wheel moment of intertia is available in CAR_info.bin files. Also the raw vertical load of the wheel (which is part of the force between the car body and the wheel) in RAF files can be negative when the wheel is in the air. Such things may suggest that the wheels are treated as regular rigid bodies in LFS.
No, it just means that they have an inertia value, both for rotation and movement (also for steering, btw). I doubt Scawen would simply add the tyres under full rigid body simulation, because it would waste processing power for calculating unnecessary things (like gyro forces).
Test it and stop guessing, jump high and use throttle and brake to see if you can alter angle of your light car, there is gyro forces

There was some fun side scrolling motorbike game where there was this effect and some others, but I doubt it was simulated in there, moto x or what it was called?

I guess Kunos went to his shell again after small boy comment he made on youtube, damn I hate it when he can't grow spine.
Quote from JTbo :There was some fun side scrolling motorbike game where there was this effect and some others, but I doubt it was simulated in there, moto x or what it was called?

Across? Elastomania?
Quote from tristancliffe :Please help - you know the sim quite well, and as a beta tester I assume you will have some knowledge of units. Can you explain the rideheight bug (it's not a bug - more of a monster!)?

Sorry Tristan, Only just seen your post.

All my testing was focused on the F2000 and online stuff. Nothing really technical.

I have only driven the FTarget twice

Setups remain a complete mystery to me. I'm the worlds biggest setup thief, almost completely reliant on other peoples sets.
I have no idea what units are used in nKPro. My setup knowledge extends no further than adding/decreasing wing/camber.

If you ask the questions at RSC I'm sure you would get the answers you are looking for.

NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2766 posts, started )
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