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Stock rods
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(27 posts, started )
#1 - ajp71
Stock rods
I'm moving in to a house with a couple of mates on my course in the Summer and like most students we're already focusing on the important things, like getting a project car of some kind.

We've thrown a few ideas around and what started as a cheap stripped out hatch back for road rallies and the odd track day increasingly got more and more expensive. We're now thinking that preparing a road legal car isn't the right way to go, for road rallies the cars we already have are fine and in all likelihood a more modified car would just be a pain on the road. Then there is the issue of cost of getting it on the road which is going to be £600 insurance (I got a very reasonable quote through Adrian Flux, 3 drivers, limited mileage, Rover 214 stage rally car), £120 tax, £60 MOT. In contrast a track car of some sort would only incur the cost of a trailer test and trailer plus a bit more fuel before we actually get somewhere, which shouldn't be £800.

Then we get to the question of what to go for, a track day car would be fun, but TBH trackdays are fun in the cheap road cars we've got already and lack that competitive edge. Speed events would be appealing but there's the cost of safety equipment and very limited time in car for the money. Circuit racing is prohibitively expensive, we'd need an ARDS course each and all the relevant safety equipment before we even get to the cost of the entries. Stage rallying is ultimately what we'd like to do, but its the same as circuit racing plus the cost of intercoms and personally I would refuse to go anywhere near a stage rally car that didn't have an extensive weld in rollcage, which we have no way of building and no chance of paying for.

The option we reckon might be the best to take is the short oval racing route, I've only been to a couple of meetings (one at Grimley one at Standlake) and have been generally very impressed with it, close but clean racing, cheap cars, nominal entry fees and close enough (local track is 7 miles away I think) that any old trailer would do behind even a typical student motor. I'm going to the meeting at Standlake tomorrow as well to take a closer look at the cars and will try and speak to some competitors to get some more ideas.

The main issues for us would be that we will have restricted access to welding equipment, there is somewhere I can do it, but I would probably have to trail the car there each night and the welding equipment is pretty basic. Ironically given the fact that I'm going to be paying my share by building rollcages I do not consider myself a sufficiently competent welder to weld a rollcage and have no access to tube benders in Oxford, its the one thing I wish to avoid skimping on/getting second hand because I am sure there are plenty of people out there who couldn't do half a good as job as I could who will happily produce a bad example (I've seen enough reasonably big budget circuit cars done appallingly badly and don't fancy taking the chance). There is someone I've seen who looks like he produces good bolt in cages for these cars for around £300, though they aren't seamless, I'll probably try and see if it is possible to get the main hoops/crosses in CDS and then have the door bars in the cheaper seamed tube, that way it would both be stronger and eligible for more things if we wanted it to (the door bars fit right up to the outer skin of the door, so not allowed in MSA racing anyway). Other than the rollcage I think most of the major costs are covered, I've got access to good FIA seatbelts/helmets/overalls that are all invalid due to age but that I know the history of so am happy to use.

I'd be interested to here from anybody involved in such things as to what realistic budgets and running costs might be?
Surely you don't need to rely on a specialist company who can bend pipe for you. Can't you buy a second-hand pipe bender yourself? Sure, you'll need muscles like Schwarznegger to bend the pipe, but still...


Your plan sounds interesting indeed but obviously I'm the first to reply to this thread, so I will be the first to demand pictures if your plan goes into action! Although I'd pick something more reliable than a Rover.. :P VW Polo G60 maybe? Or even a Nova.
#3 - ajp71
Quote from BlueFlame :Surely you don't need to rely on a specialist company who can bend pipe for you. Can't you buy a second-hand pipe bender yourself? Sure, you'll need muscles like Schwarznegger to bend the pipe, but still...

Tube bending equipment is way out of our reach, and trying to do it all on too small a bender or without the correct attachment fitted will result in kinks in the tube, rendering them unworthy for any structural purpose (but frighteningly they get away with it on gash FIA spec cars.

Quote :
Your plan sounds interesting indeed but obviously I'm the first to reply to this thread, so I will be the first to demand pictures if your plan goes into action! Although I'd pick something more reliable than a Rover.. :P VW Polo G60 maybe? Or even a Nova.

The original idea was to get a Rover 214 because one of the other guys has one and needs bits of trim for his, a 1.4 because it would be small enough to be eligible for endurance rallies. For this purpose I'm not sure what would be best, usually a Nova is the most popular choice but they're hard to find for reasonable money given the fact they are the most popular choice for so much low cost motorsport. For this reason most series are starting to accept Nova engines in Corsas.
I'd go for the route of most chavs in and around these parts. Buy a bubble Corsa and stick a 2.0T engine from a newer Astra under the bonnet!

Get a tasteful bodykit and some nice suspension (those aren't that rice ) and you'll have a blast.

Sounds like a good project! Good luck.
Quote from ajp71 :Tube bending equipment is way out of our reach, and trying to do it all on too small a bender or without the correct attachment fitted will result in kinks in the tube, rendering them unworthy for any structural purpose (but frighteningly they get away with it on gash FIA spec cars.




If that is the case then just grab your yellow pages and browse for some kind of engineering/fabrication shop where you can drop off all your pipe (or even get them to order it) and give them all the dimensions. I know where I used to work we would do it, but the pipe-bender we had was only good for under 1 inch.
Hi, i also race stock cars, diffrent type though.
If your looking to compete in these cars, its definitely not going to be cheap
since most red roof / super stars have race built engines.

If your looking to build a competitive car, your looking around £1800 atleast,
Not including spare wheels ect..
#7 - heson
Im quite sure you can find someone who can build the roll cage alot better than you, so quick that you can easily earn the money to pay him with taxed money in shorter time than it would take you to build it. (is that a comprehendable sentence?). I.e you wage slave on something else to pay a pro that has pro equipment and pro experience to do it.

That asumes you don't have a arc welding cert, or has a life long dream of doing it your self. It does not asume you got a well payed job you can work some payed over time on.
#8 - ajp71
Quote from S14 DRIFT :I'd go for the route of most chavs in and around these parts. Buy a bubble Corsa and stick a 2.0T engine from a newer Astra under the bonnet!

Engines have to be standard and fitted to the car originally.

Quote :
Get a tasteful bodykit and some nice suspension (those aren't that rice ) and you'll have a blast.

I reckon you gave up half way through my post, I eventually started going on about oval racing so a bodykit is the last thing I want.

Quote from Racer325 :Hi, i also race stock cars, diffrent type though.
If your looking to compete in these cars, its definitely not going to be cheap
since most red roof / super stars have race built engines.

If your looking to build a competitive car, your looking around £1800 atleast,
Not including spare wheels ect..

Having been to Standlake today the class that stood out to me as most appealing was the saloon rods, front wheel drive hatches, saloons and coupes with standard original fitment engines, with no limits on capacity and fuel injected engines are permitted (presumably including 4/5 valve multipoint injection). Whilst one could waste a lot of money and spend a huge amount of money to produce the perfect completely standard engine it wouldn't have that great an advantage in a varied class and didn't look like big money was being spent in this class, why you would do so and not upgrade the car in the process is beyond me. We're after a cheap laugh and some good wheel to wheel racing, we're realistic and fully aware that a well prepped Nova with a standard engine is going to be as quick if not faster than a bigger coupe/saloon, its just more appealing for us to have a bigger proper saloon racing car for peanuts.

Quote from BlueFlame :If that is the case then just grab your yellow pages and browse for some kind of engineering/fabrication shop where you can drop off all your pipe (or even get them to order it) and give them all the dimensions. I know where I used to work we would do it, but the pipe-bender we had was only good for under 1 inch.

I can get pipe bent at work if that was the only issue, equally if it was just the odd weld I could get that done, being realistic though it is a big job, getting someone to do it all in one go is so much less of a pain in the arse than trying to get it done on the cheap. Needless to say if the car and my work are a 3 hour round trip away its a hell of a lot of petrol driving back and forth everytime I want to try it in the car! I'm going to ask this guy for a quote for a cage along the lines of his Fiesta one for a saloon car with the main hoop, cross and back stay in CDS and all the front bits in seamed tube.
#9 - senn
mid/late 80's corolla fx/sx twin cam, with the Twin cam 4a-ge 16v. I assume over there they're cheap, and 4a-ge's should be reasonably easy to come by. Make sure its the 7 rib block version. much better than the early spec 3 rib blocks.
reliable, rev the shit out of it, light handle pretty well...*shrug* just a thought.

They were also mated to a close ratio gearbox, so thats another plus, unless you really need to exceed 180kmh? :P
But you'll find people are spending money on standard engines to make them not standard. (race built)

And do you really need a pipe bender?
Ive built 2 roll cages out of box and a mig welder no problem.

But ive never been to standlake so i don't know what its like.


Quote from Racer325 :
And do you really need a pipe bender?
Ive built 2 roll cages out of box and a mig welder no problem.

We don't have access to any welding equipment at the house where we wish to build the car, and given the fact we have no garage hammering and grinding will have to be kept down to a minimum. There is somewhere where we can make lots of noise and use MIG and acetylene welding, but access is restricted. A box section rollcage is an unbelievably gash solution and really no harder and only a little cheaper to make than a tubeless cage, I am experienced in cutting and fitting tubeless cages to a high standard, it is really not that hard, and if I happened to have a suitable bender lying around I would consider making a good full cage then getting someone to weld it into two halves and install it as a two part bolt in cage, but I don't have this option available to me.
Acetylene welding? I've never heard of that before.
Quote from ajp71 :Having been to Standlake today the class that stood out to me as most appealing was the saloon rods

they're the best non-contact class at Standlake, followed by the hot rods if you want to spend a LOT of money
Quote from mookie427 :they're the best non-contact class at Standlake, followed by the hot rods if you want to spend a LOT of money

Really? You have some experience of it? What I saw was cars that looked like they'd been prepared on a shoestring, some quite nicely done like the Calibra that changed hands for £300 recently. Some others only had H frames, far too gash for my liking, and the one on the MX3 was welded so appallingly badly the weld between the horizontal and vertical members on one side had cracked completely. What are people spending money on then other than engines (which I don't really believe seeing as most of these cars couldn't put the power down they had).
Update: I'm now the owner of a rather tatty Ford Cougar, probably an inappropriate choice of car for short track oval racing but who cares it looks pretty
pics or it didn't happen!
Quote from ajp71 :Update: I'm now the owner of a rather tatty Ford Cougar, probably an inappropriate choice of car for short track oval racing but who cares it looks pretty

2.5 v6?
Wow, 160k on the clock. :jawdrop:
what did he (or his mum, if I understand correctly it was her car) with it? There is bondo everywhere.
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Tbh I'd have done it up, sold it, and then bought a decent banger thing and spend the change on a Flatscreen TV.

Looks.. like a mess, tbh.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :Tbh I'd have done it up, sold it, and then bought a decent banger thing and spend the change on a Flatscreen TV.

Looks.. like a mess, tbh.

For £300 it's a pretty straight sound car, the reason it looks such a mess is surface rust and filler left over from the previous owners appalling filler work over what were probably only minor dents. In order to do it up as a road car it would need a new bonnet, new or upholstered seats, the sunroof mechanism would need replacing, the radio would need installing (amazingly it came with a decent one loose), would need a new bonnet cable and front grill (had evidently been cracked trying to release the bonnet) not to mention other bits and pieces like the badge which the previous owner has managed to get filler on. It wouldn't be worth doing it up as a road car given what decent ones go for.
Quote from ajp71 :Really? You have some experience of it? What I saw was cars that looked like they'd been prepared on a shoestring, some quite nicely done like the Calibra that changed hands for £300 recently. Some others only had H frames, far too gash for my liking, and the one on the MX3 was welded so appallingly badly the weld between the horizontal and vertical members on one side had cracked completely. What are people spending money on then other than engines (which I don't really believe seeing as most of these cars couldn't put the power down they had).

most of them are prepared on driveways on shoestring budgets. Kept running all season unless they have a big off, lots you will see have barely any straight panels as they just beat any dents out instead of replacing them. I've been spectating at Standlake for about 10 years now, the prep in the non-contacts basically hasn't changed at all during that time - H frame for safety, and a bit of welding here and there, proper cheap mans motorsport. Saloon rods are great to watch as it almost guarantees some close action with the occasional off.

I'm not into all the non-contact stuff really, much prefer the banger side of things and nowadays when the non-contact stuff is on I can usually be found wandering around the pits I'll be there on the 1st so if you see some weird dude with lots of hair wandering around the pits with a camera it's probably me
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Stock rods
(27 posts, started )
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