http://www.reuters.com/article ... KN1244463620081212?rpc=44
Ford Down 12% already
GM down another 16% since opening
Ford Down 12% already
GM down another 16% since opening
US carmakers in (even more) trouble
(20 posts, started )
#1
- Crashgate3
US carmakers in (even more) trouble
That socialism wouldn't have worked anyway.
I agree. Throwing millions of tax dollars down the throads of Ford and GM would have only postponed the inevitable.
On a sidenote, I wonder why we haven't seen any "If you buy import cars, you hate America" or "Not buying domestic cars supports terrorism" adds to boost their sales.
On a sidenote, I wonder why we haven't seen any "If you buy import cars, you hate America" or "Not buying domestic cars supports terrorism" adds to boost their sales.
But Brazilian ethanol was too much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y20BauyW6gc
(it's about IndyCars, that will use Brazilain ethanol starting 2009)
They have to fail, that's how the system works. If your business isn't viable you fail, and that's that. People talk about saving jobs but seem to forget the broken glass falacy.
To let these companies to fail would open up oppurtunities to brave entrapaneurs to come in and rebuild, and re-structure these industries into something viable, and sustainable. ANd in turn that create jobs, which of course are more secure.
Governments couldn't run a p1ss up in a brewery and the idea they can make a car company work is just stupid.
The US Government are taking the states into a depression with thei printing press mentality. When the dollar crashes the 5hit will hit the fan big time. Good luck!
To let these companies to fail would open up oppurtunities to brave entrapaneurs to come in and rebuild, and re-structure these industries into something viable, and sustainable. ANd in turn that create jobs, which of course are more secure.
Governments couldn't run a p1ss up in a brewery and the idea they can make a car company work is just stupid.
The US Government are taking the states into a depression with thei printing press mentality. When the dollar crashes the 5hit will hit the fan big time. Good luck!
#6
- Becky Rose
I was talking to my company CEO yesterday when lots of managers walked in, I said "Oh it looks like you have some management thing going on so i'll leave you to it..."
Then added, "...Of course being a technical person i'm the only one in here who actually knows where the brewery is, but that's beside the point.".
...
But what do you do? Packup Detroit brick by brick and move it somewhere with more industry? There's no easy solution and no clear answer. So whatever happens is going to have negative consequences.
Given such a choice i'd probably make the least expensive decision on the grounds I may aswell fail but have some money left over to build a daytime TV station for all the unemployed people there will be...
While I agree with your overall point in principle (first thing for everything) and I like the idealism of it all, I think we're quickly reaching a point with these huge corporations where it's completely unrealistic for "brave entrepreneurs" to just step in and fill the hole left when one of them implodes (if allowed to). The required investment to start a competitive business as a car maker these days would be astronomical. And even if you by some miracle managed to get off the ground, reach customers, sell cars and make some money, you'd probably be gobbled up by one of the remaining big ones before you end up posing too much of a threat to them.
To me it's much more likely that for each competitor going away, that's simply one less competitor in the market until we're left with one or two companies ruling all. We're already pretty damn close to that situation in the car world, and other industries show similar problems. The "system" just isn't working. Well, it's not working in the interest of the consumer anyway.
Yes of course it's ideological, but it's completely useless to prop up companies that are failing. All they will be doing is creating debt, and taking valuable resources AWAY from other areas that may need it more - the broken glass fallacy
People don't seem to realise the money that goes into bailing out the banks and car companies has to come from somewhere. This movement of resources could be being taken away from better businesses and ideas via greater taxation, inflation (the devaluing of money) etc... it's VITAL the free market is allowed to work instead of government interference. They just make it worse!
The free money the fed, and this phony optimism has been printing over these years has caused all this mess and the re-adjustment is so NEEDED. The recession is a GOOD thing!
Let these companies fail, let it all go down the pan so that America can rebuild a viable economy rathat than pedalling this false one!
We havn't HAD a free market economy... that's the thing... the government have interfered with the hands in the cookie jar, and now they are trying to say they didn't and it's not their fault
If the dollar crashes like expected no one in the states would be able to afford a foreign car anyway, opening up doors for home grown manfactured stuff.. it will take time though admittadly
Hmm. Ford have been in trouble for a long time. They should have done something about it instead of being like "oh well it'll be alright!". The thing is Ford have some very nice cars, in the european market at least. Stuff like the new Fiesta and the new Mondeo are class winners, but the thing is no-one seems to be buying them much. 
I hardly see any new Mondeos, maybe that's part of the economic crash thing but I'm not really sure..
I hardly see any new Mondeos, maybe that's part of the economic crash thing but I'm not really sure..I have seen a few new Fords.
But I guess they haven't taken off like the Focus did, even now you see about 100 of them a day.
Isn't looking good is it, I hope they recover, American Leyland anyone?
Nah I can't ever see anything in the USA being state owned, they're too scared of 'socialism', perhaps that will be their downfall.
Just a few short years ago (very VERY short time ago) GM was producing record sales and record profits. People were purchasing full size $35k trucks and $40k SUVs out the wazoo. If GM had put that back into research of new technologies and fuel efficiencies, I would feel for them. Instead, the CEOs lined their pockets for years and now they are jumping on the bailout bandwagon.
It makes it difficult knowing that I have hardly seen a raise in my salary in the last 5 years supplying GM with parts to build their product that lined their pockets with more money than I can even imagine.
I can't even put an "M" at the end of my hourly salary to make the number the same as what the CEOs make in a year. How could you possibly spend that kind of money? I could spend a lump of $1 million and even a lump of $10 million. I couldn't imagine being paid $20, 30, 40 million every year. What the heck do they do with it all? Not just the auto manufacturers, but in every big company. I don't even understand how a person can sit and rake that in every year without batting an eye. It's just mindboggling.
It makes it difficult knowing that I have hardly seen a raise in my salary in the last 5 years supplying GM with parts to build their product that lined their pockets with more money than I can even imagine.
I can't even put an "M" at the end of my hourly salary to make the number the same as what the CEOs make in a year. How could you possibly spend that kind of money? I could spend a lump of $1 million and even a lump of $10 million. I couldn't imagine being paid $20, 30, 40 million every year. What the heck do they do with it all? Not just the auto manufacturers, but in every big company. I don't even understand how a person can sit and rake that in every year without batting an eye. It's just mindboggling.
by american standards that makes you a communist possibly even comparable to stalin who wasnt the least bit communistic but well ignore that for the moment
Sorry, I'm lost on that one.....
getting the maximum amount of money for yourself without regard for anyone else is the most capitalistic (and actually most liberal) thing to do
from my experience of discussing politics with americans online the mere suggestion that it might not be ok makes you a democratic liberal commie douche
from my experience of discussing politics with americans online the mere suggestion that it might not be ok makes you a democratic liberal commie douche
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I am thinking on the terms of the CEOs and the leaders of these large corporations and industry raking in all the record profits and just lining their pockets with millions and millions of what eventually is just for the sake of lining them because of it no longer being needed as opposed to looking ahead at the industry and reinvesting into the company to be sure that the money tree they are picking continues.
This problem is not just of the Big 3 auto manufacturers, but of all companies today. The investment is not just in new technologies of alternative fuel sources and usage for auto manufacturers to keep themselves in business for example, but also an investment in their workforces throughout all these industries so that people can stay capable of purchasing the product the industry is providing.
"Getting the maximum amount of money for yourself without regard for anyone else is the most capitalistic thing to do" is the failure of capitalism. If it is "without regard for anyone else", then how are the capitalists going to get that maximum amount of money if there is no one to buy their product? Therefore, there must be regard for others, the others being the employees of the industries and companies. They are the ones buying the products, and when the CEOs begin to just take take take and line their pockets to the maximum, we have the situation we see today with the auto industry. The CEOs raking it in without regard to the point that there is no one left capable of paying for the product. No product being purchased = no product being sold = no money to rake in = CEOs crying to the government that they need bailed out.
It is no longer Capitalism today. It's called GREED.
This problem is not just of the Big 3 auto manufacturers, but of all companies today. The investment is not just in new technologies of alternative fuel sources and usage for auto manufacturers to keep themselves in business for example, but also an investment in their workforces throughout all these industries so that people can stay capable of purchasing the product the industry is providing.
"Getting the maximum amount of money for yourself without regard for anyone else is the most capitalistic thing to do" is the failure of capitalism. If it is "without regard for anyone else", then how are the capitalists going to get that maximum amount of money if there is no one to buy their product? Therefore, there must be regard for others, the others being the employees of the industries and companies. They are the ones buying the products, and when the CEOs begin to just take take take and line their pockets to the maximum, we have the situation we see today with the auto industry. The CEOs raking it in without regard to the point that there is no one left capable of paying for the product. No product being purchased = no product being sold = no money to rake in = CEOs crying to the government that they need bailed out.
It is no longer Capitalism today. It's called GREED.
thats what capitalism is and always was... especially if you give people millions while basically stripping them from all responsiblity
I rather think it's people lacking the vision to foresee the problem, or ignorance on their part instead of the failure of capitalism. capitalism is just an idea, how you apply the idea into real world application is the art of it.
The promise of capitalism is everyone who has an idea, some asset, can make it big by combining resources in a free way, instead of having to be granted such opportunity by the central government.
the idea is sound and most of the time it works, however since human are often preoccupied with what is in front of them, they forget about longitivity - capitalism works best when everyone has money, when everyone has something new to offer - a blue ocean economy instead of a red ocean. But the fact is because of greed and insensitivity, third world countries are being stripped the rights they deserve, exploited, lower class income remain the last concern of employers, what you see now is the outcome of such misshandling.
capitalism does not nesscarily make people greedy, there are examples of people who give out a lot in building schools, helping charity, giving grassroot teenagers the chance - most of these people had experienced poorness in their early life and thus understand their personal enjoyment shouldn't be the top priority in their life, when they have so much power to make a difference.
successful business person often exhibit the character of being totally commited, putting result over method and generally being ruthness, that's why they screw things up at other's expenses, coporate responsibitliy is a fundamental chapter in business study, however it is a sad thing that most of the blightest people in the world think it is below their level.
The promise of capitalism is everyone who has an idea, some asset, can make it big by combining resources in a free way, instead of having to be granted such opportunity by the central government.
the idea is sound and most of the time it works, however since human are often preoccupied with what is in front of them, they forget about longitivity - capitalism works best when everyone has money, when everyone has something new to offer - a blue ocean economy instead of a red ocean. But the fact is because of greed and insensitivity, third world countries are being stripped the rights they deserve, exploited, lower class income remain the last concern of employers, what you see now is the outcome of such misshandling.
capitalism does not nesscarily make people greedy, there are examples of people who give out a lot in building schools, helping charity, giving grassroot teenagers the chance - most of these people had experienced poorness in their early life and thus understand their personal enjoyment shouldn't be the top priority in their life, when they have so much power to make a difference.
successful business person often exhibit the character of being totally commited, putting result over method and generally being ruthness, that's why they screw things up at other's expenses, coporate responsibitliy is a fundamental chapter in business study, however it is a sad thing that most of the blightest people in the world think it is below their level.
Capitalism says American car companies die miserably and their CEOs lose their jobs. Thank God—American cars have been going downhill in quality since Duryea.
and take a huge executive severance package... thatll show em!
most american cars still have the same suspension technology as that thing
This happens whenever the rewarding model is such that you receive a prize every time you make decisions which favor short-term profit over anything else - managers then value tomorrow's stock price more than the chance to end up broke within 2 years.
No matter how it turns out they have their pockets full already.
US carmakers in (even more) trouble
(20 posts, started )
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