The online racing simulator
Quote from gp4racer :Sure!
But with the patch Z, i dunno if the next evolution is S3, i am ready for s3 ,i am sure, but it has to be a great improvement from s2 to s3 for get more happy customers because you have going to pay 12x3 pounds.

But do we really need S3? Seriously... with this pace of development, can you honestly see advanced graphics, real-time weather changes anytime soon? What would be in S3? Since Scawen's idea is for LFS to be a racing simulator and not a screenshot generator, can you see them going with the fancy graphics?
IMO.. the best thing would be to proceed with LFS as a whole, constant improwements in the physics and online department, graphic enhacments while keeping it not big system hog... making support for multi-core CPU's.... and the best part, having payable content once a year, year and a half... like 10 pounds (or 5 pounds, 50.000 licences X 5 pounds, once a year, nice cash), maybe containing 3 tracks, 2 cars or something like that...
The problem would be for people who are new to LFS, so they wouldn't be upgrading 5 (10) pounds, they would be paying 50 pounds, etc...
Something along this lines would be best for LFS future IMO... The development keeps going on via free updates, while you pay for the content...
thats my point...the game is so great so far, what can be done at the future different to tracks and cars? I bought so many years ago rfactor becasue it was so moddable, great mods and tracks (virtual Le mans). Some people can hate rfactor, but ISI games have nice features too. S3 years years away? My god, I can not wait so much. I can feel some features of iracing.com like LFS, specially at the feedback, the physics is quite good, but i dunno what improvements can do scavier team if the game is so great so far, with that small size at bytes you have great screens and physics. Since GP4 nobody has be able to build that weather features, like rain in La Source and shinny sun in Fagnes chicane, why is so hard..anyway this is not the aim of the discussion.
I guess I understood to becky at some point, maybe LFS can be boring at the same point, maybe she is suggesting track editor for focus the LFS simracing towards others points, other leagues, DTM maybe? GREAT! nascar? Who knows? iRacing is so great sim, but some guy at RSC forum tell about an invesment of 18 million USD I dunno if the number is right but scavier team has been telling us that the can build a great sim without much financial support.
Quote from Becky Rose :First off i'd like to thank those who have commented positively on my thoughts, I rather thought the post would get written off as the ramblings of a crazy old has been.

Figured posting that would be redundant tbh.
Quote :maybe she is suggesting track editor for focus the LFS simracing towards others points, other leagues, DTM maybe? GREAT! nascar? Who knows?

The track editor line was a joke, quite a cunning one I thought that works on a few different levels... Of course I would love to get my hands on such a toy because i'm a geek who likes to play with stuff that's technical. Sadly one would have to exist before I could play with it. :/

What my post is about, incase of translation issues, is basically saying that yes i'm bored of the content but no I dont feel hard done by. LFS is a wonderful sim and i've had a lot of fun with it.

Yes i'm bored of the content and i'm not racing of late and hanv't really done so for over half a year I think, but rather than go off in a huff i'll be back on track when LFS excites me again, I dont be-grudge the game or the way the devs are making it as i've had an aweful lot of fun with LFS in the past and got my monnies worth long ago. So rather than wave an LFS flag, or moan about the content, what i've said is "yup, bored now, but i'll come back later" ... and until then i'll just be jealous of Scawen + co's work-life balance.
#30 - JJ72
That's what people should do, if you are bored, go find something else to fill in your life, you know as you grow older your standard of what is a satisfying experience does change, and it changes a lot faster than Scavier can deliver.

but there are certainly ways to create new "content" for LFS as well, the babyR for example, right now I am running a 90ps LX4 with street normals and opendiff, uber soft suspension and it's a new experience.
Quote from Becky Rose :Yes i'm bored of the content and i'm not racing of late and hanv't really done so for over half a year I think, but rather than go off in a huff i'll be back on track when LFS excites me again, I dont be-grudge the game or the way the devs are making it as i've had an aweful lot of fun with LFS in the past and got my monnies worth long ago. So rather than wave an LFS flag, or moan about the content, what i've said is "yup, bored now, but i'll come back later" ... and until then i'll just be jealous of Scawen + co's work-life balance.

Very balance point of view

I think alot more than we know goes on behind the scenes and we may well be pleasently surprised when some of those things surface in time.

But my view has always been if nothing else happens I'm still content with the journey I've had with LFS thus far. On the other hand if it continues to change grow in the future its a bonus...

Quote from JJ72 :but there are certainly ways to create new "content" for LFS as well, the babyR for example, right now I am running a 90ps LX4 with street normals and opendiff, uber soft suspension and it's a new experience.

That's one thing I would love to see implemented, server side settings for "class restrictions" i.e. setup restrictions. So we can run servers with setup restrictions on the RAC to emulate a mazda miata cup serries for example, it would really increase the possible combinations of content in LFS.
I feel pretty much in the same camp as Becky (if I've followed her post correctly), but I'll just add in some personal perspective..

The devs do what they want. I think anyone who's bought S2 has gotten their monies worth by now. The game performs well, is virtually bug free, controller support is good, technical support is ongoing, most features are up to professional standards or soon will be etc. The devs should be answerable to no-one at this point in terms of what's been actually paid for. LFS represents truly major value for money. (I never paid for it so I have even less of a reason to complain).

Alas, this level of autonomy- whilst being touted as highly desirable and good for the consistency and quality of LFS, can actually tick some people off a bit. I'm sure most of the community has felt at times that their own long requested feature has been held back yet again because the developers had decided to work on something much less important/interesting/whatever... Sometimes it's very funny to watch, because Scawen has never reacted like you might expect the typical public relations guy of a big, faceless software company to react- all apologies and reassurances and 'yes sir, we'll get right onto that, sir'... customer is always right type attitude... He's never been apologetic, and the customer has been hardly ever right! That's LFS the friendly dictatorship for you, and it's o.k.

That still leaves the community though, dealing with a game that's still unfinished, with announcements of updates which can unfortunately take years to materialise, and a fairly considerable (in the opinions of some) content drought. In some ways, this is no way to play a game, as it inches along slowly into Beta status. People are used to playing games after they're finished. If you can get used to that, and focus on now, then LFS can be tons of fun. But because of it's ongoing nature, some people tend to look to the future more, imagine what's coming, form ideas about what could/should happen.. we can get stuck in the future.

One way to deal with that is to get creative, with the desire to help that future along. If people are bored, they can make skins, or promotional videos, try their hand at making better sounds, better textures, suggest improvements, etc. My own thing is that I'm alternately inspired and bored by the slow graphical progress of LFS. I joined just after the big patch with the BF1, so have only seen one new car and one new track config the whole time I've been here (as well as a fairly significant graphics update for SO). That inspires me sometimes to want to make things better- the recent patch has helped a lot because it says that Eric is indeed working away somewhere, and it helps me to do the same. Unseen and I are about to release a new compatible texture pack for patch Z. I think if the interiors weren't in that patch, I wouldn't have bothered. But we're kicking along, happy to be doing this stuff again. In love with LFS again. Again.

So, yeah- I don't expect anything really, but still have a lot of old hopes pinned on LFS, and a personal vision of what I hope it can become. If the devs own vision just happens to exceed my own, then everything is surely fine...
Quote from Gills4life :Scawen has stated in one of his posts that S3 is "years away".

We really need to enforce wikipedia-style post citation for cases like this.
I know the devs wouldn't want to promise things that they might not end up doing but I've always thought it would be handy to have a short list somewhere of the next priorities they are working on.

Talking of which is there are a recent post by one of the devs on what may be coming up?
I kinda like turtles.
Quote from Jakg :As long as you can express your opinion without trolling or resorting to racial slurs you won't be banned.

I'm not saying that the recent ban were a good or a bad thing but these bans made people afraid to tell their opinion...
Do you see what I mean?
Everytime somebody say that he finds the Scawen's or Eric's work slow a lot of people will just "attack" them.

What the majority of people want is new cars/tracks and not more physical improvments.
That's why for some people the game seem to be "stuck" when in fact Scawen is still working hard on it
#39 - SamH
AFAIK there have only been 2 bans recently (apart from demoers on Kyoto etc), one for racism (which should never be tolerated, obviously) and the other for swearing at, and directed abuse of, another forum member. Nobody has been banned for voicing their opinion about the current development state of LFS at all. I just wanted to make sure that's not in question, because it isn't. If anyone is under that mistaken impression, please feel free to correct them.

@ Becky.. *mint* top post
ironically I decided to hop onto race 2 and have a go tonight....
Quote from SamH :AFAIK there have only been 2 bans recently (apart from demoers on Kyoto etc), one for racism (which should never be tolerated, obviously) and the other for swearing at, and directed abuse of, another forum member. Nobody has been banned for voicing their opinion about the current development state of LFS at all. I just wanted to make sure that's not in question, because it isn't. If anyone is under that mistaken impression, please feel free to correct them.

Quote :I'm not saying that the recent ban were a good or a bad thing but these bans made people afraid to tell their opinion...

Quote from Becky Rose :ironically I decided to hop onto race 2 and have a go tonight....

I've had few laps/races there again recentley, its not been to bad, and from all acounts seems to be more active. Glad to see its finally Back to TBO again
I mentioned in a thread in the CTRA section about the restart period.. Hopefully SamH is looking at that.

About the track
Editor ... wicked words, when put together, even more so. Although Not still sure why you brought this up as the closing point of your OP. Definately a tin of worms opener that subject.

As for the Ethos vs Moaning subject. No matter what it is people will moan about it. Its human nature, Even more so when you factor in LFS's Dev proccess. With the openess of Vicc and Scawen, the bored vocal minority have and do like to repeat themsleves. Whats more frustating is the opinions of those who have been around for more a few years, understand the ethos, but then start personal & ignorant, sniped opinions on how LFS should be and where its failing.

But thankfully it is a very very small minority of individuals. That seem to have an blinkered opinion on things LFS related. These things can be overlooked for the user, but i can imagine the frustration and annoyance it might create for the mods/devs.

If i had to post on every subject that had me rattled or foaming ... I'd be at around 5000 posts now

So to end this one i'd just like moan about one thing

There are not enough days in the week!
Quote from Nobo :LFS is for me unbeaten when it comes to physics

Well, now that iRacing is out the only thing LFS is top dog at anymore is bad pickup racing.

Quote from thisnameistaken :My 2p: I think people who get frustrated at the pace of LFS updates probably have quite empty lives.

The old "Do something else and come back when there's updates" thing really does work. I get the feeling some people have been refreshing the LFS home page every five minutes for three years waiting for S2 final.

Perhaps, and yet sim racers tend to view this more of a hobby than a game - it's niche product, not a mainstream one therefore what were the alternatives: rFactor? GTR? NetKar? (crap, more crap, and not bad if you like open wheelers and software that probably won't work). So really what you're saying is go find a new hobby since the market is full of shit where even the best offerings are lacking in drastic fashion. At least there's a serious contender on the market now, and whilst iRacing makes LFS look silly in pretty much every aspect it's still in the same boat as LFS overall. :doh: I guess unfinished software is the norm nowdays or something.... However, 50 people working to make it better is going to mean progress will actually happen at a rate that matters, and iRacing will have important features added to it long before Scawen flips to that page on his to-do list. That's not a knock, it's just a logical fact.

LFS was great value, no question. 5 years in development should have a lot more to show for it overall in terms of just being a marketable product - but nobody can deny they've done great things for 2/3 people. Heh, IIRC the original plan was 4 stages over the course of a year :P.

I like what Scawen did too, and I admire him as a person. LFS was a passion for me for a long time but it'd take some serious changes / additions for me to get excited about it again. If I am going to get into simracing seriously again then I'll sub to iRacing for sure.
Meh stay with lfs just a a year or so more and we should have breakable parts new physics and no more alpha badge.
Quote from Luke.S :Meh stay with lfs just a a year or so more and we should have breakable parts new physics and no more alpha badge.

LOL, I can tell you have been around for 10 months!

That was a good one
Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :LOL, I can tell you have been around for 10 months!

That was a good one

Well, I was hoping that in a year we could have better collision physics with breakable parts, there aren't lots of things that Scawen said he was thinking to improve and those seemed the most important to code, so a year seems like a reasonable time.
#47 - SamH
Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :I mentioned in a thread in the CTRA section about the restart period.. Hopefully SamH is looking at that.

It's O/T, but since it's cropped up, I did an update this evening to address a UF-BR issue. While in there, I added an extra 40 second delay to the restart timer for endurance days.

On the subject of iRacing, I'm absolutely 100% positive that if I spend the same amount of money on iRacing as I have on LFS (~£24), I absolutely 100% guarantee that 4 years after my expenditure not only will there be sod all new content for me to use, but I won't be able to use the sodding content I paid ~£24 for.

Don't even bother to compare iRacing with LFS in this thread as if they're like-for-like. How silly.
I said LFS was great value - didn't I?

If all you care about is having a great sim and money is no object, iRacing is it. If you're concerned about the dough more than the sim then iRacing is not relevant to you. The cost is not part of the sim, it's totally irrelevant to an objective comparision of the quality of the sim's features or lack thereof so I'll feel free to compare them all I want, thanks. They are "like for like" in that they are both sims, period. I realize people get bent out of shape over the cost, oh well.
I'd like to have the same shrooms than BBT.

No way iRacing is near as good as LFS, at the moment. It lacks so much content, even the very basic one, that it's not even in the same league than lfs is. Only thing it comes out on top is the driving feel, which isn't all in a racing sim.

Sure it feels great to drive, but the way one can drive it is so much more arcade than LFS is right now. No engine damage to take care of, not any kind of a clutch model, barely excisting gearbox modelling. Not even fricking functional brake lights.

But then, LFS isn't that close to reality neither.
Can't remember who said this originally, but it went somewhat along the lines of "They all suck, so you just have to play the one sucking least".
Quote from Jonesy_ :I'd like to have the same shrooms than BBT.

No way iRacing is near as good as LFS, at the moment. It lacks so much content, even the very basic one, that it's not even in the same league than lfs is. Only thing it comes out on top is the driving feel, which isn't all in a racing sim.

Sure it feels great to drive, but the way one can drive it is so much more arcade than LFS is right now. No engine damage to take care of, not any kind of a clutch model, barely excisting gearbox modelling. Not even fricking functional brake lights.

But then, LFS isn't that close to reality neither.
Can't remember who said this originally, but it went somewhat along the lines of "They all suck, so you just have to play the one sucking least".

I would pretty much agree on what you've said..

I've given iRacing a whirl now and I don't really see what all the fuss is about, its pretty middle of the road if you ask me. I'm sure if you've driven any of Niels (that rFactor guy ) mods you'll pretty much know what to expect.

If iRacing is the 'best' then I'm sticking with LFS

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG