The online racing simulator
#1 - Samor
looking for a wheel, and a bit affordable....
I'm well aware the G25 is the best out there, but the price confirms it too....
what would be the second-best wheel to go for? The Thrustmaster RGT looks good to me (and was quite a bit cheaper where I looked) but if it turns out to be worse than a Logitech Momo, I'd better settle for that one (cheaper too).....
I prefer new, I don't like second-hand...
This is what you need.

I would recommend the DFP if it's not too expensive for you.
the thrustmaster is generally better rated by the community then the MOMO Racing but it had some problems which I don´t remember right now...

the old DFP is impossible to beat for bang for the buck. 50 buck or what it´s hard to beat it. The new GT doesn´t seem to be improved much... It seem to have the G25 wheel shape which is worse then the DFP IMO. The internals from what I hear at simracingtonight is more towards the G25 though so it´s not just a DFP after all . Pedals though is exactly the same. But it´s three times the money but haven´t tried it maybe worth it

Biggest improvement with the G25 over their previous wheels is the pedals. The force feedback and feel is both better or worse...

But well not much more to choose from then logitech and thrustmaster at price points below the G25.
#4 - Samor
Busy, busy... so I didn't get that wheel yet, but I did some searching. That guide is nice, but there's many wheels I don't see for sale here, such as the DFP and the blue logitech wheel....


Wheels I've spotted in a nearby store:

Logitech G25 - sweet as always, of course, and 230 euros. ouch.

Logitech MOMO - good looking, still quite pricey at 140 euros.

TM RGT - I kept wondering how common it is to have an up/down shifter in combination with a clutch... are there real cars that have that? ...anyway, 130 euros.

Logitech Formula Force (the red logitech wheel) - I don't really have an idea how it is. 80 euros.

TM Ferrari wheel (various versions) - One of them had mentioned on the box that it has Force Feedback, whereas the others just had Vibration Feedback. The FF one costs 70 euros.

Everything else I saw was vibration feedback stuff from unknown/cheap brands which I wouldn't go for. I never saw the DFP.


Now, the TM Ferrari interests me because it's cheap, I know it'll fit on my desk and I like the shift levers. The advantage of those wheels is the large clamp to mount it to a table; the small clamps on the logitech wheels don't work for my desk, since it has a "beam" (is that the correct word for it?) in the way. I have once used a similar (same?) TM Ferrari wheel on a Dreamcast (but without FF). Seemed to be fine.
Sure, the RGT has a clutch, but it doesn't have a proper shifter.... I think that makes the clutch a bit unnescesary? However, maybe it's a lot better than the cheaper TM wheel otherwise.. anyone who can tell me what the Force Feedback Ferrari wheel from TM is like (I believe it's called GT 2-in-1 because it also works on a PS2)?
Samor the prices here are a bit different:

G25 - 250€. There is a store around here that sells it for 220€, but i don't hear good things about it.

Momo -150€

RGT - 120€

the others are pretty much the same.


And i'm looking for a wheel too. as i can´t buy the G25, my choice is the RGT
to find the dfp in a store you should not go to the computer department but to the playstation area, as it is marketed only for playstation but will work on pc if you install the logitech drivers.

peace jo
#7 - Samor
Quote from jonny__27 :Samor the prices here are a bit different:

G25 - 250€. There is a store around here that sells it for 220€, but i don't hear good things about it.

Momo -150€

RGT - 120€

the others are pretty much the same.


And i'm looking for a wheel too. as i can´t buy the G25, my choice is the RGT

I've seen the SRT review - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=41732
...and I'm also thinking of getting the RGT now...
Got the RGT, it's great, lasted for 4 years, is still fine and I think I'm never even able to break it to get another one :-)

If you need any more info just pm me.

greetz

der not-working-at-the-thrustmaster-factory-butz
#9 - DrBen
my experience so far is with 3 of the lot...
my wheels started of with a TM Enzo (with force-feedback) when it was relatively fresh on the market.
It had a good feel to it in the sense of its effects and its overall design but it fell short in the sense of build quality / finish. And let's not forget it only has about 260° of rotation so it's more of a wheel for arcade-style racing games than for the real stuff like LFS. In my case the right shifter lever broke into 2 parts one day because of a design problem: there was a very, very strong spring to hold it back. The force needed to initiate a shift was simply "too much" for the thin layer of plastic that this lever was made of.
Pedals were: "cheap but good" plastic with sufficient resistance and long-enough travel and had an overall nice feel to them.

Logitech MOMO black
Next in line was the black and relatively low-price "momo racing force" that you can still buy:
The wheel itself: very nice finish. It is rubber-coated but at the main grip-zone it does have some "airy" surface-rubber which keeps the sweat from beeing "stored" too much. I liked the thickness of it. The shift-levers were much less demanding in force than the Enzo I had before and had more of an "instant response" - like action (very short travel to trigger), were much larger and even had a more ergonomic location behind the wheel. Feedback was very detailed, but when steering against the simulated force the ff-motor provided way too much resistance to overcome - because of it's long gearing. And with time it developed a little play.
It's most drastic let-down was the pedals: there is no real bearing for the pedals themselves which means: if you take the lid off, you've had it. Take this seriously! If you happen to buy one of those and it's still revision 1 then get in contact with logitech right away since they will wear out quite quickly!. The problem is that their design was a huge mistake since the springs are unevenly balanced on eihter side of each pedal (they use multiple springs with different force and different initial position of attack, especially on the brake). A Rev. 2 - pedal set is reported to solve this issue and logitech is told to provide rev.2 pedal sets to almost every customer who contacts them about this issue.
THE DPF USES ROUGHLY THE SAME SET OF PEDALS - so be warned!

G25
In Spite of those bad experiences with the momo's pedal set I went on an got a G25. It's been a real gift, this thing. First of all there is the rotation of 900° lock-to-lock. This means almost all types of racing cars can be properly simulated - steering angle-wise.
I could not believe how much realism it added to my lfs-driving experience. The resistance when going against the force is way, way less than with the cheaper stuff, thanks to 2 independent motors and much more direct gearing.

Then there are the pedals with excelent feel to them and a suitable amount of travel and even some progressive (and much higher) resistance to the brake. And: a real bearing for all of them. Haven't had an issue with those for about a year, now. Wheel and pedals still working like a charm - That being said: I didn't use the rig that heavily - just like once or twice a week for some 1-3 hours.
And now the let-down: the shifter-unit! As you can read in this forum every now and then, there is one of those to go wrong within half a year or a tad more time. Mine broke after like 1 year not giving me 2nd and 4th but 6th gear right away - and i confirmed this to be hardware-related by plugging it in on two seperate systems. Seems to be the wiring and/or soldering inside this unit to not meed the standard of the rest of this rig's quality.
Thus right now I'm back to mouse-steer with my G25 currently in RMA. But mind you, I'm no slow-mo with mouse, either.

Final advice: If it's realism that you're after much more than anything else: go either for the DFP or the G25...
...or maybe that "Porsche"-wheel licensed by fanatec would be an even better choice (didn't ever hold that one in my hands). If it's cheap and cheerful gaming without let-downs, maybe that RGT by TM is an equally good choice - not supplying realistic rotation, though. And you can most-likely find the DFP for under 100€ somewhere.

I personally would go for the DFP if money's the issue and maybe swap the pedals for some reasonably priced after-market ones, when time comes. IF you do so make sure the stock pedals are Rev. 2 !!!

If you can afford it go for either the G25 or the 911-wheel.

The momo racing force is not bad either. But I guess the TM-RGT would be the better choice if the finish has improved to that enzo I had.

PS.: Rally and/or GT-cars might have that extra clutch-pedal to override the electro-hydraulic system when equipped with a sequential speed-box, simply for smooth pull aways at start and *parking* practice. WRC and other Rally cars do have to be road-legal AFAIR, simply to make their way between the stages through normal, open traffic. And I think smooth starts are really usefull on some "overpowered" GTRs.

Hope this is useful to you guys
Cheers
DrBen
Thans for the advice, all..

The G25 is excellent, no doubt, but due to the price and the fact I'm just switching from pad to wheel, it might be a bit early/too much to go with one.. I can always decide to go for one later, depending on how things turn out.

So, I settled for the RGT. Impressions are really good so far, except that the gas pedal went "squeeky" on me (sound) in just one day of usage.
that happened to me too after half a year.
If you have some spray grease or oil with that long plastic nozzle thing on it, just put it down the pedal rods and lube it up. I live in silence since 3 1/2 years now :-)

greetz

der butz
I'm planning on buying one of those ThrustMaster wheels because my DF EX is so notchy i can't even drive in a straight line. But before i buy one i wanna know if the ThrustMaster has the same problem? I know it is belt and cog driven FFB but i wanna make sure that the cogs don't influence it too much.
Quote from der butz :that happened to me too after half a year.
If you have some spray grease or oil with that long plastic nozzle thing on it, just put it down the pedal rods and lube it up. I live in silence since 3 1/2 years now :-)

greetz

der butz

thanks for the advice.

Gotta love the force feedback abilities; I actually had to lower the settings to calm the thing down a bit. It's got quite a lot of force in there.
It's probably also the only wheel in the universe that fits perfectly on my desk, due to the large clamp with adjustable "pads". Because of that it's also no hassle to set up (a huge pro for me; I used to have a Formula T2 (semi-long ago) and it was always such a hassle to set the thing up correctly, and then the mandatory calibrating session after that).

Finally, because all my computer equipment is in the same color, it blends in nicely (then again, black/silver is very common these days for about any electronical device .. still a lot better than the toy-ish look of the ferrari wheels, though)

(on a weird side note.. what's up with TM's site.. that must be one of the worst sites I've ever seen from a brand which is that known)
I am pretty happy with my momo black, in the racesim central forums, buy advice section, there is a guy from netherlads who is selling a momo red, maybe you can be interested
amazon.co.uk is selling the g25 for EUR 202,- including shipping to europe thats fair i guess...
i got mine 5 month used for cheapo 125,- eur ^^
Quote from Samor :Busy, busy... so I didn't get that wheel yet, but I did some searching. That guide is nice, but there's many wheels I don't see for sale here, such as the DFP and the blue logitech wheel....


Wheels I've spotted in a nearby store:

Logitech G25 - sweet as always, of course, and 230 euros. ouch.

Logitech MOMO - good looking, still quite pricey at 140 euros.

TM RGT - I kept wondering how common it is to have an up/down shifter in combination with a clutch... are there real cars that have that? ...anyway, 130 euros.

Logitech Formula Force (the red logitech wheel) - I don't really have an idea how it is. 80 euros.

TM Ferrari wheel (various versions) - One of them had mentioned on the box that it has Force Feedback, whereas the others just had Vibration Feedback. The FF one costs 70 euros.

Everything else I saw was vibration feedback stuff from unknown/cheap brands which I wouldn't go for. I never saw the DFP.


Now, the TM Ferrari interests me because it's cheap, I know it'll fit on my desk and I like the shift levers. The advantage of those wheels is the large clamp to mount it to a table; the small clamps on the logitech wheels don't work for my desk, since it has a "beam" (is that the correct word for it?) in the way. I have once used a similar (same?) TM Ferrari wheel on a Dreamcast (but without FF). Seemed to be fine.
Sure, the RGT has a clutch, but it doesn't have a proper shifter.... I think that makes the clutch a bit unnescesary? However, maybe it's a lot better than the cheaper TM wheel otherwise.. anyone who can tell me what the Force Feedback Ferrari wheel from TM is like (I believe it's called GT 2-in-1 because it also works on a PS2)?

Sent you a PM
Quote from Zonomar :Sent you a PM

Wouldn't it be better to just post here so that everyone can see? I'm interested to know answers to his questions also
Quote from BenjiMC :Wouldn't it be better to just post here so that everyone can see? I'm interested to know answers to his questions also

I asked him if he wants to buy a DFP wheel for 65$ USD shipping including... Thing works perfect.. I bought it from justdeals.com. I had my three weeks with it. Just im not into sims.. They get boring.
I doubt the OP is interested in buying DFP as he already bought a Thrustmaster RGT which he wrote in this thread
doesn't hurt to ask
Here is a fresh review of the Driving Force GT. If I was going to get a wheel today and was counting my pennies, this would be the wheel I buy no question. Even though they say the pedals are not that great, they are still good enough.

Enjoy.

Driving Force GT Review by SRT

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG