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Self-Hating Jew hates America?
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Self-Hating Jew hates America?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332360,00.html

American Professor, Ousted From DePaul University, Declares Support for Hezbollah in Lebanon

Monday, February 25, 2008


CHICAGO — An ousted American political science professor who believes some Jews have exploited the legacy of the Holocaust recently expressed his support for the terrorist organization Hezbollah.
Norman Finkelstein, who resigned from DePaul University last fall amid criticism of his opinions on the Holocaust, told Lebanese television that his view of Hezbollah is "rarely heard" in the United States.
"I have no problem saying that I do want to express solidarity with them, and I'm not going to be a coward and a hypocrite about it," Finkelstein told Future TV. "I don't care about Hezbollah as a political organization. I don't know much about their politics and anyhow, it's irrelevant."
The Jan. 20, 2008, interview was conducted in Arabic; Finkelstein replied in English.

Hezbollah, funded by Iran and Syria, engages in terror operations worldwide. President Bush and other U.S. leaders view the organization as an opposing force to peace in the Middle East, and it is listed by the U.S. State Department as a foreign terrorist organization.


Finkelstein’s support for Hezbollah would be illegal if he were helping raise funds for the organization, said Richard Miniter, a terrorism analyst with the Hudson Institute.
“If terrorists are able to use his name to fundraise in any way, that would be illegal,” said Miniter, who added that only Al Qaeda has killed more Americans than Hezbollah.
Finkelstein, who is the son of Holocaust survivors, said in the televised interview that Jews had to resist the Communists in World War II and the Lebanese people will have to make the same kind of choice about accepting or resisting Hezbollah.
"It's a choice that the Lebanese have to make — who they want to be their leaders, who they want to represent them."
Israel and the United States are resisting Hezbollah's control of the region, Finkelstein said.
"That's the problem," he said. "If Hezbollah laid down its arms and said, 'We will do whatever the Americans say,' you wouldn't have a war.
"That's true, but you would also be the slaves of the Americans. I have to respect those who refuse to be slaves."
He said Israel must suffer a defeat to lead to peace in the Middle East.
Asked to comment on this report, Finkelstein said he was only willing to speak live on air.
Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard Law School professor and supporter of Israel, said Finkelstein’s comments show that he is anti-American.
“If it’s not literal treason, it certainly is treason in spirit,” Dershowitz told FOXNews.com. “He belongs with Hezbollah."
Finkelstein is supporting an organization that brags about killing Americans, he added.
“This is a man who supports an organization that recently called for terrorist attacks against Jews and Americans all across the world,” Dershowitz said.

Finkelstein initially fought DePaul, a private Catholic university in Chicago, on its decision last September to cancel his courses and deny him tenure after six years as a faculty member.
He threatened to risk arrest by appearing on campus, but negotiations with university officials led to a peaceful exit.
Dershowitz, who weighted in on Finkelstein's tenure process, said Finkelstein’s support for Hezbollah vindicates the decision by DePaul to deny his tenure.
“To have an American citizen endorsing the views of a group of Iranian-funded Lebanese murderers, it shows you that the biggest front in the War on Terror is the propaganda war,” Miniter said. “Days like today, it looks like we’re losing.”

Wasn't expecting "next time" to come so soon.

Quite a leap you made from "agrees in part with Hezbollah's ideology" to "hates America."
Quote from DeadWolfBones :Wasn't expecting "next time" to come so soon.

Quite a leap you made from "agrees in part with Hezbollah's ideology" to "hates America."

Pardon me, but didn't Hezbollah vowed to kill Americans?

But the funny quote in that article is when he says he doesn't care about Hezbollah's political positions. I can only imagine what followed:

"Wait, aren't you a political scientist?...What do you support then?"

"Oh, I don't know, mostly the killing I guess. That and the hating."

Quote from DeadWolfBones :Wasn't expecting "next time" to come so soon.

Quite a leap you made from "agrees in part with Hezbollah's ideology" to "hates America."

Not really

Quote from lizardfolk :
Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard Law School professor and supporter of Israel, said Finkelstein’s comments show that he is anti-American.
“If it’s not literal treason, it certainly is treason in spirit,” Dershowitz told FOXNews.com. “He belongs with Hezbollah."

Their words not mine
-
(lizardfolk) DELETED by lizardfolk
Well, of course they would cast it in those terms.

I'm personally mostly ambivalent on the issue of Israel/Palestine, though I do think it was pretty clearly a mistake to create the Israeli state there in the first place. Both sides have used terrorist tactics to further their goals, but Israel has US backing in their efforts due to longstanding ties. Same old story, and it ain't gonna end any time soon.
Hey, I agree with Finkelstein's opinion! And with the EU which doesn't portray Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, treating it with political dignity. And I've read quite a lot of stuff about it. Memri is far from being a respectable source in my eyes, and Americans should be wary too. Just check who runs it.

Probably some Americans like being manipulated. In this, I see no difference from Europe, or the rest of the world.

Edit: the term self-hating Jew speaks a lot about the mindset of the OP. Call me a self-hating Italian since I have enormous issues with the Italian government, then. Or avoid calling me so, it's better. I wouldn't like it.
There's really only the USA that considers Hezbollah to be a "terrorist organisation", and that's only to give themselves carte blanche to torture them and detain them indefinitely without trial. Evil bastards.
Really? I thought UK considered Hezbollah that way too.
Quote from Albieg :Really? I thought UK considered Hezbollah that way too.

Well, it is the 51st State and all. According to wikipedia they only consider Hezbollah's "External Security Organization" as a terrorist organization.
Quote from Wikipedia.org :
The countries below have officially listed Hezbollah in at least some part as a terrorist organization.

Australia: The Hezbollah External Security Organization
Canada: The entire organization Hezbollah
Israel: The entire organization Hezbollah
Netherlands: The entire organization Hezbollah
United Kingdom: The Hezbollah External Security Organization
United States: The entire organization Hezbollah

Quote :[O]n March 10, 2005, the European Parliament passed a non-binding resolution recognizing "clear evidence" of "terrorist activities by Hezbollah" and urging the EU Council to brand Hezbollah a terrorist organization and EU governments to place Hezbollah on their terrorist blacklists, as the bloc did with the Palestinian Hamas group in 2003. The Council, however, has been reluctant to do this, because France, Spain, and Britain fear that such a move would further damage the prospects for Middle East peace talks. The EU Council designates the late Imad Mugniyah as a terrorist, claiming he is Hezbollah's "Senior Intelligence Officer". In the midst of the 2006 conflict between Hezbollah and Israel, Russia’s government declined to include Hezbollah in a newly-released list of terrorist organizations, with Yuri Sapunov, the head of anti-terrorism for the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation, saying that they list only organizations which represent "the greatest threat to the security of our country". Prior to the release of the list, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov called "on Hezbollah to stop resorting to any terrorist methods, including attacking neighboring states."

Quote from Albieg :Really? I thought UK considered Hezbollah that way too.

And who do you think told the UK to take that line? Anyway, decades of shooting Irish people eventually taught the UK that you can't cure terrorism with military action. Now that the main embarrassment of the Iraq war is out of the way and Tony's gone, our foreign office has gone back to calling Israel a bunch of bullying arseholes. And for the record David Milliband's a Jew.
Quote from thisnameistaken :And who do you think told the UK to take that line? Anyway, decades of shooting Irish people eventually taught the UK that you can't cure terrorism with military action.

I'll add that probably the experience with IRA may have emotionally altered some perceptions.

And the conflicting but complicit classifications of Hezbollah are no wonder too.

But you know, sometimes when you have a limited political awareness it's easier to reduce an opinion or an analysis of a complex situation to a redacted interview or videoclip. I think those missing sentences could be pretty damning. A descent into absurdity furthered by FOX news.

There's a lesson to be learned through all of the recent madness, though: tongue in cheek comments can damage lizards' tongues.
Quote from lizardfolk :http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332360,00.html

Fox Noise (Faux News?) - great impartial source you have there :up: Even comes complete with quotes from infamous pro-torture, rent-a-quote, "Israel uber alles" chickenhawk Alan Dershowitz, throwing the old "America-hater" label around. Credibility factor: zero. Dershowitz has a long history of being a reactionary stooge & paid talking-head for Washington, AIPAC and Israel. As far as he's concerned Israel and the US can literally do what they like to "stop terror" with impunity, regardless of International Law, human rights or anything considered decent, fair or legal by most human beings.

This must be a story by that alleged liberal media I've heard so much about. FOX = fail.
I Like the off-topic section, its like a place where you find reports and news about the world
All fair and balanced, too
#17 - SamH
Nice one Samwise, I hadn't seen that before :up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I ... thsByCountry-Barchart.png

Compare the numbers of military and civilian deaths, of the principal Allied powers (US, UK, France) to those of the principal Axis powers (Germany, Japan, Italy), and imagine that you can conclude from these statistics, who were the good-guys and the bad-guys.***

"Palestine" is territory having been captured, and since controlled, by Israel during the course of one of the SEVERAL wars initiated by Arab nations, seeking to destroy Israel. Israel has many times sued for peace, and has made, and demonstrated a willingness to make, concessions - for the sake of achieving peace - that some have called even suicidal. My understanding and expectation is that Israel is QUITE willing to live in peace with the "Palestinians," and other Arab nations, IFF they will cease trying to extinguish Israel and kill Jews. Currently, Egypt is the only Arab nation that has rescinded its declaration of war against Israel (and in response, Israel returned to Egypt, that territory having been captured from it).

With regard to the "Palestinians," specifically, it is my understanding that the great majority of them are descendants of Arabs who voluntarily departed Israel, upon the advice of their fellow Arabs (this is well-documented, including by explicit statements of government officials of Arab nations), who recommended that Arabs depart Israel, while it was being conquered by the five Arab nations that attacked it upon its inception, with the promise that, upon completion of the conquest and destruction of Israel, these Arabs could return to their homes and take, as well, the property of the killed or chased-away Jews. Unfortunately for them, Israel successfully defended itself, and has continued to do so, leaving them, and now their descendants, as refugees (unwelcome in any other Arab country, BTW). Those Arabs who did NOT depart, are now the most free and privileged Arabs in the Middle East, able to vote and hold governmental offices in Israel.

It is certainly sad that there is much suffering among "Palestinians." But I am inclined to suggest that, in a manner of speaking, it is their own damn fault, and if they were WILLING to live in peace, they could have that. Israel has REPEATEDLY demonstrated ITS willingness to live in peace with its neighbors, but Israelis are not so stupid as to allow themselves to be genocidally killed or their nation extinguished. So, the "tragedy" continues.


***Oops! I am very sorry! My evaluation did not include the Russians, who were very much a principal Allied power and suffered the most, by far, during World War II. Even so, the reasoning stands, with regard to the US, UK and France, who suffered fewer deaths than Germany, Japan and Italy, but were not the aggressors.
Self hating jew

"The phrase sometimes is used against a Jew who is considered to be actively working against the interests of the Jewish people, as those interests are perceived by the person using the term. It has been used in this manner against Jewish reformers and anti- or non-Zionist Jews. For example, some Jewish writers and activists who are critical of Israel or Zionism have reported the phrase being used against them solely because of their political views.[2] This usage is hotly disputed by those so labeled.[3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hating_Jew

Another interesting use of language. Seem's to be generally used against anyone of Jewish origin who doesn't toe the Zionist party line.
As opposed to 'holocaust denyer' which tend's to be used against anyone else who disagree's with the Zionist party line.

Seem's strange that any disagreement with Israel's political direction results in being labeled one or the other rather than actually discussing the issue thats being raised.

I guess if you believe in recreating the Warsaw Ghetto then Israel's behaviour toward's the Palestinians is completely acceptable. If on the other hand you accept that they are human beings with rights then you have to raise serious questions about the Israeli's behaviour.
In my opinion the Israelis are currently behaving in exactly the same way as the Nazi's, Building the Palestinians into camps, controlling food, water & power, stealing land and murdering anyone they choose. You'd have thought that they might have learned better............
Quote from Albieg :Hey, I agree with Finkelstein's opinion! And with the EU which doesn't portray Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, treating it with political dignity. And I've read quite a lot of stuff about it. Memri is far from being a respectable source in my eyes, and Americans should be wary too. Just check who runs it.

Probably some Americans like being manipulated. In this, I see no difference from Europe, or the rest of the world.

Edit: the term self-hating Jew speaks a lot about the mindset of the OP. Call me a self-hating Italian since I have enormous issues with the Italian government, then. Or avoid calling me so, it's better. I wouldn't like it.

Where have I called Finkelstein a self hating Jew? I personally posted that article from a radio show that discussed it and they called Finkelstein a "self hating" Jew and I was curious of other's opinions (a crime as I've come to find out :rolleyes

I haven't really said anything in regards to the article at all. Also it's in question marks for a REASON. Never have I said that I've disagreed or agreed with his opinions or whether or not I've agreed or disagreed that he's a "self hating Jew who hates America".

So who's the one jumping to conclusions? :rolleyes:

Quote from xaotik :"Reptile Impersonator Draws Conclusions"?

:rolleyes: as I have said. This is not my conclusion. It's what the people who disagrees with Finkelstein says (if you read the quote then you'd know). Why must everyone jump to conclusions without considering the facts :rolleyes:
I didn't think you'd agree with the sentiment of the article you posted Lizard, but it sure does nothing to support that pernicious 'liberal media' myth.

I found the statement about Hezbollah being funded by Syria & Iran (and the implication that it's a Very Bad Thing in and of itself) interesting. While it's true that Hezbollah receives funds from those nations, noone ever seems to apply the same focus on Israel's relationship with the US. Their troops, continually engaged in assaults, incursions and other obscenities against Palestinian sovereignty & dignity (and occasionally against Lebanon, most recently with their blitzkrieg in 2006) are supplied and equipped by a foreign country - indeed, Israel's entire economy & military is propped up by the US and has been for decades. Why is that not considered an equally bad thing, considering Israel's woeful record when it comes to the number civilian casualties it's inflicted, the vast number of homes destroyed, the large amount of Palestinian land it's annexed, the number of UN resolutions it's flatly ignored? Is it okay because they wear uniforms while they do it? I know Hezbollah have much to answer for on that score themselves, but I long for the day when mainstream media outlets ask the same questions of, and level the same accusations at, US allies like Israel as they do when it comes to groups like Hezbollah and whichever nations are the designated enemies at the time.
Quote from Hankstar :I didn't think you'd agree with the sentiment of the article you posted Lizard, but it sure does nothing to support that pernicious 'liberal media' myth.

That's an assumption and this is completely unrelated to that argument of the "liberal medias"

*snicker* it's funny that people bashed me for jumping to conclusions in the other thread and yet everyone who's criticized me here did the exact same thing that I got criticized for in the other thread :rolleyes:

Quote from Hankstar :
I know Hezbollah have much to answer for on that score themselves, but I long for the day when mainstream media outlets ask the same questions of, and level the same accusations at, US allies like Israel as they do when it comes to groups like Hezbollah and whichever nations are the designated enemies at the time.

What? conservatives cant criticize the government? This is something I agree with you. Hezbollah are backed by other countries "known to support terrorism". But Israel is backed by the US which doesn't makes Israel's situation any better. It's so often seen as Israel the frail little kid and the other middle eastern countries as the big mean playground bully, but we have to ask yourselves: wasn't what we did to the Palestinians equally unfair if not more? What some of our troops did during "raids" are equally corrupt and evil?

However, despite that, it is by no means for Hezbollah to resort to their tactics as they are now. But pondering about the US. It's not like we didn't do things that are equally appalling (Taxi to the Dark Side). BUT, in my opinion, the end does not justify the means and that's a message for both sides. (Noticed how I still didn't address the article and yet I'll guarantee I'll start getting flamed for "jumping to conclusions" and "making unfair assumptions" about this "self hating anti american" :rolleyes. In my opinion the difference between Hezbollah and the US/Israel is not ideology. But rather the fact that Hezbollah is publicly racist and supports the destruction of Israel NOT because they are backed by the US or they stole land from the Palestinians. But that they hate and want to kill all Israelis just because they are Jewish. US made no statement nor do they support the statement that they want to "kill all the Arabs in the middle east"
Plenty of Israeli leaders throughout history have made some very inflammatory comments about Palestinians, but it seems people only remember the ones made about jews and Israel.

For some perspective:

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- first Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, 1937

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." (italics mine)

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- PM Golda Meir, 1969

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- PM Menachem Begin, 1982

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- PM Yitzhak Shamir, 1988

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Israeli PM Ehud Barak, 2000

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- PM Ariel Sharon, 2001

Just some of the racist attitudes and double-standards on display in Israel, not from radical Zionists or hard-right Jewish splinter groups but from the very leaders of Israel, from before Israel's existence to the recent past. Certainly, violent militants like Hezbollah need to be brought to account for their words and deeds, but when hateful words like these come from the leaders of Israel and are ignored it's little wonder people under their control get desperate and furious. I see nothing in the above quotes that sets their authors apart from any common anti-Semite or Hamas/Hezbollah militant (apart from the subject matter, obviously). In this case, hatred isn't a river flowing out of the Arab world. It runs in both directions and if Israel wishes to paint others as hateful and bigoted and dedicated to its destruction, it should check its reflection first.
Source.
Quote from Hankstar :

Just some of the racist attitudes and double-standards on display in Israel, not from radical Zionists or hard-right Jewish splinter groups but from the very leaders of Israel, from before Israel's existence to the recent past. Certainly, violent militants like Hezbollah need to be brought to account for their words and deeds, but when hateful words like these come from the leaders of Israel and are ignored it's little wonder people under their control get desperate and furious. I see nothing in the above quotes that sets their authors apart from any common anti-Semite or Hamas/Hezbollah militant (apart from the subject matter, obviously). In this case, hatred isn't a river flowing out of the Arab world. It runs in both directions and if Israel wishes to paint others as hateful and bigoted and dedicated to its destruction, it should check its reflection first.
Source.

That I'll agree Keep in mind I've never said the problem in the Middle East was black and white (again that's you most of you ASSUMED :rolleyes

But of course this does justify the extent to which both sides have gone to in the recent years. The end does not justify the means

Self-Hating Jew hates America?
(159 posts, started )
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