Exactly, I'm not obstructing him in any way and not forcing him to slow down. I'm just getting him out of my draft. And after those two moves everything is usually decided. Either he's out of draft still not having an overlap or he was fast enough to get draft again and then he's too close for me to do it again.

I was just wondering because I almost never have this move done on me altho I expect it every time hehe.

To pine-fin: Good piece of driving, you held your line, on the inside and very efficiently defended. The other driver could have overtaken you if he had gone wide, and did the normal line, but he insisted on trying for the inside and lost.

to kurent:
If you do that and the opponent is too close, what will happen is you shimmy left, he keeps his line, gets his nose side-by-side with your rear bumper, then when you return right, you slam into him. Zig-zagging is always a bad idea. What you CAN do is turn to the side he went to (trying to overtake), squeeze him hard. If hes got nothing on the side of you car, you can squeeze him all the way to the grass. THEN you can return to your line, for the next corner - but this is NOT turning back abruptly to your original line - its a more slow, predictable return. This is cause if you swerve left to block an overtaking manouvre, the opponent will, if he has time, turn back to the right side. If you then decide to return to the racing line quickly... bang.
As a general rule, if someone begins to overtake you on the beggining of a straight, dont bother to block - you wont be able to prevent it, and are risking a crash. Nearer a corner, though... you are preventing a side-by-side situation on the corner.
and never do that on the exit to a corner - most people will be coming of the corner as passengers, not drivers, so if you block the exit line, they cannot stop or swerve.

May I suggest getting on UF-BR CTRA server?
Some races on seemingly boring tracks for thess slow high grip "cars" turn into highly tactical fights involving racing lines and drafting when the server fills in (AS2, KY, BL) because of the overall low speed and close racing.
It is also easy to get track tuned setups from fellow racers.
I think it is a good learning / testing startpoint!

The problem with all these lane change rules (that were introduced because of Michael Schumacher after Spa '95) is that they don't state when you are allowed to move across the track. This means that waiting until someone is already slightly overlapping and then forcing him to either back off or hit the wall/grass is perfectly legitimate and is routinely practiced in all forms of real racing.

I think it's BS but what choice do you have you can get away with it? If I could make a rule it would simply be that any maneuver that forces a driver to get off the throttle (or off the track) while not yet in the normal braking zone is illegal. Easy to check with onboard camera and data recording.

Quote from Stigpt :

If you do that and the opponent is too close, what will happen is you shimmy left, he keeps his line, gets his nose side-by-side with your rear bumper, then when you return right, you slam into him.

I said that in my previous post, you probably missed. If he's too close it's already too late for anything. And the first move is not actually a move, the point is to make him think you are going to try and get away in one direction. Just a slight turn long enough for him to respond and try to follow you, then a harder turn in the opposite direction and most of the time he will keep on going in the first direction for that fatal few moments before realizing you have tricked him.

I tried to find a replay where I did it but couldn't find one.

While it may be called "defending" your position. It really is "offensive" driving. You are being pro-active in keeping that position.

Defensive driving is being passive, letting people pass.

You may be a great "defender", you have to drive offensively in order to defend that position.


Did I just make myself look stupid there?


BTW, I thought your move was perfectly legit. The other guy should have just went outside on the last corner. Great pass!

Quick! Hit the edit button!

that was not blocking here i think, but your incomming into chicane was on the edge of cutting IMO nice fight!

Quote from [d9] :

your incomming into chicane was on the edge of cutting IMO

What are you talking about? I had overlap BEFORE the turn-in point.

The thing about racing is that is cant be driven in a matter-of-fact, "I-had-overlap-its-my-position" kind of way. If theres overlap, you still need to give room for the other car.

While your pass was clean, it was really close to(but not) cutting.

Quote from The Radness :

While your pass was clean, it was really close to(but not) cutting.

If you call that close, then most of passes over me are cutting then

Quote from pine-fin :

If you call that close, then most of passes over me are cutting then

Your probably right. Chicanes are just a really hard spot to pass with both drivers leaving with that fresh feeling.

The other guy was just pissed because you knew what he was going to do and didn't let him do it. He SHOULD have went outside and tried to carry more speed out of the corner and tried to beat you down the straight.

Well, thats what I would have done.

If you are talking about corner cutting, that wasn't even close IMO. What I've understood (and seen it being the practise in leagues I've raced), the car is judged to be on track if at least two wheels are on the track, and kerbs are part of the track just like chalk lines are part of a football pitch. So pine-fin could have been at least 0,5m more over the apex. Instead the following car was closer to cutting the 2nd apex of the chicane.

Good move in my view, in fact would even say that I would like too see more of this. Many a time I have seen mysef overtake someone who would not even attempt to defend there line, to bothered driving the perfect line and going for a fast lap.

Whenever I'm in that postion I'm defendin my postion right to the limit of the rules, never oversteping it on purpose, this style I found leads to more enjoyment for myself, and hopefully the other driver when they have to fight for there postion.

Quote from pine-fin :

What are you talking about? I had overlap BEFORE the turn-in point.

yes, braking 0.5s later makes overlap
i wanted only to say by that - for me was chicane part more disputed than other else in this movie...

Quote from [d9] :

yes, braking 0.5s later makes overlap
i wanted only to say by that - for me was chicane part more disputed than other else in this movie...

I can't see much wrong at with the chicane move, however the video is had 1/2 pace, so maybe at full pace it could be diffrent, but it looks a legal move to me, again poorly defended by the other driver. If it was me, I would have been in the centre of the track, reducing the amount of space avalible for the overtaking move.

I like the F1 rules the best, you my defend your line once, and then retake your racing line again as per each turn. How ever if you defend your line twice in one straight, that is blocking. There is a very fine line and one that is crossed accidentally from time to time, just don't make it a habit.

Quote from Dygear :

I like the F1 rules the best, you my defend your line once, and then retake your racing line again as per each turn. How ever if you defend your line twice in one straight, that is blocking. There is a very fine line and one that is crossed accidentally from time to time, just don't make it a habit.

You can only retake the line at the corner, not before it.

Quote from [d9] :

yes, braking 0.5s later makes overlap

Oh come on, I will send the .mpr and you will see that I had overlap before he even started braking.

Quote from Dygear :

I like the F1 rules the best, you my defend your line once, and then retake your racing line again as per each turn. How ever if you defend your line twice in one straight, that is blocking. There is a very fine line and one that is crossed accidentally from time to time, just don't make it a habit.

That's the essence of the CTRA rule. Defend by moving/blocking, and optionally return to your line, once. More than that and you're in breach of the rules.

I think I will spend a few minutes this evening to separate out "defending" and "blocking" in the CTRA rules. Moving to defend can either be moving to disrupt airflow or block passage. I hadn't realised the negative connotations to the word "blocking" when I phrased that rule.

Quote from pine-fin :

Oh come on, I will send the .mpr and you will see that I had overlap before he even started braking.

On CTRA servers, overlap may be obtained within the braking zone, since our regulations specify that overlap is considered at the *normal turn-in point*. This can be significantly later than the normal braking point.

Quote from Polyracer :

If you need to get benefit from the draft in order to get into an overtaking position, then you are not yet in a position where the car in fronts movement is dangerous.
Once you have managed to get close enough and are about to make the pass then the leading car should not move from side to side as this is obviously dangerous.
The leading car can place himself slightly offline though, to make the overtaking car go the long way round to make the pass.

I have seen hundreds of examples of this and no one complains of blocking.

It's not blocking, it's about being irrational on a race track. If you fail to see that, tough luck.

Quote from lefty :

It's not blocking, it's about being irrational on a race track. If you fail to see that, tough luck.

I think that on the straights you can be as irrational as you want (within that one move rule clarified above of course), if the car following you can still keep the throttle floored and doesn't have to take any responsive actions for that irrationality.

Quote from SamH :

On CTRA servers, overlap may be obtained within the braking zone, since our regulations specify that overlap is considered at the *normal turn-in point*. This can be significantly later than the normal braking point.

Either way I'm right. I had overlap before he braked, I had overlap before he turned in and I still have overlap when I go to bed

Quote :

[It's not blocking, it's about being irrational on a race track. If you fail to see that, tough luck.

"I have seen hundreds of examples of this and no one complains of blocking."

I do it myself, and many others do it to me.

Its about denying the facility to overtake and no blocking is involved at all, and if you fail to see that..............

Personally I disagree with actual blocking too.

If an opponent has gotten close enough to attempt the pass then i do not switch line to block him, and if he is already there with some overlap - I give him space so that no accident is caused.

Quote from frokki :

I think that on the straights you can be as irrational as you want (within that one move rule clarified above of course), if the car following you can still keep the throttle floored and doesn't have to take any responsive actions for that irrationality.

That's the reason it's happening all the time irl. Because it's ok to be irrational. Let me suggest you try it at a real race track with other cars.